Volunteer Lockies

[cotswoldsman]

The cost is very marginal. In time volunteers will be trained up to train other volunteers. I know I keep harping on but as a charity people want to get involved. Start them as lock keepers and then get them involved in other jobs. Over 60% of the maintance and cleaning etc. at the National Trust is done by volunteers. We all now use the waterways owned by a charity!!! The simple fact is that people want to be involved in doing something

[carlt]

will they start to replace professionals as these retire?

How many dedicated lock keepers are left anyway?

 

Of the ones I listed I believe Foxton is the only one (maybe Watford)?

 

The volockies may not be taking anyone's job but adding a service that once existed, and we complained, when it was taken away.

[magpie patrick]

Foxton, Watford, Long Buckby, Braunston, Stockton...off the top of my head, are all flights where a BW lockie has worked my boat through the flight for me.

 

Many others are now coming to me where I've been helped either through one lock or a whole flight.

 

I accept you are telling the truth, but I've been though all of those flights, some of them several times, and never had the lock keeper actually operate the lock (and not because I asked him or her not to, but perhaps they didn't see the need, or perhaps they didn't even see me).

 

That said, I do recall being helped through Hanwell Locks about twenty years ago by the lock keeper. She (note SHE) refilled the pounds ahead of me, which was far more useful than working the locks the boat was in, given the dippy crew I'd got: in one lock the crew opened the gate paddles and hadn't noticed the pound was empty until I pointed out the only thing coming through them was daylight!

 

To get back on track, I think CRT are looking to inflate volunteer numbers rather than actually get them to do anything essential

[carlt]

I know I keep harping on but as a charity people want to get involved.

If I could adopt a lock and was given a paint brush, paint and gardening tools as well as a windlass, I'd happily volunteer if it freed up the maintenance staff to do more structural rather than decorative jobs.

[Ian Mac]

But it sounds as if you still want to make it one rule for some and another for the rest of us - for example, you say people should always use a centre line in locks, then in a later post, you say that you don't. You talk admiringly about the methods used by working boaters, but don't want us lesser mortals to try to emulate them, where still possible.

No, I was just attempting to informing the members what I believe the volunteers are taught, ie that use of centre lines should be encouraged when boats use locks, and why this is being taught, its very helpful for new hire boaters who don't have the practical experience of boiating, its also good for regular boaters as it may teach them a new and better trick. As I think you have spotted, I do not necessarily agree with the use of a centre line, in all cases, there are other methods, but the question is are they as safe? Can they be taught quickly and easily? Not everybody would want to strap into locks for example, it takes a lot of skill and it is very easy to loose a finger in the rope if you get it wrong. One of the things that can go wrong is two paddles being drawn together, as another person arrives at the lock tail, and starts to be helpful, something that lock wheeler has to be alter for. But there are ways of making sure that your in control, shouting at people gives the impression that your on the edge of being out of control, we should not be here to shout and ball at other people, but to help and educate them, it makes the canals a more pleasant place to be for all, including the new volunteer lock keepers, and Mr Grummpy boater, who in his opinion knows everything there is to know

--

cheers Ian Mac

[KevMc]

If I could adopt a lock and was given a paint brush, paint and gardening tools as well as a windlass, I'd happily volunteer if it freed up the maintenance staff to do more structural rather than decorative jobs.

I bet that there are a lot more people around who would gladly adopt a lock

[carlt]

I accept you are telling the truth, but I've been though all of those flights, some of them several times, and never had the lock keeper actually operate the lock (and not because I asked him or her not to, but perhaps they didn't see the need, or perhaps they didn't even see me).

 

That said, I do recall being helped through Hanwell Locks about twenty years ago by the lock keeper. She (note SHE) refilled the pounds ahead of me, which was far more useful than working the locks the boat was in, given the dippy crew I'd got: in one lock the crew opened the gate paddles and hadn't noticed the pound was empty until I pointed out the only thing coming through them was daylight!

 

To get back on track, I think CRT are looking to inflate volunteer numbers rather than actually get them to do anything essential

I am telling the truth.

 

The Buckby flight lockies (Nigel and Karen?) frequently helped me through the flight, likewise Joe or Tommy on the Braunston flight.

 

I was once dragging Tramella and Lucy into the Buckby bottom lock as Karen was passing on her way home and she rang her bloke to say she'd be a couple of hours late and we cleared the flight together.

Edited August 14, 2012 by carlt

[Chertsey]

I bet that there are a lot more people around who would gladly adopt a lock

But then would we start getting 'Oi! This is MY lock and you'll do as I say'?

[carlt]

But then would we start getting 'Oi! This is MY lock and you'll do as I say'?

Why should we?

 

There has been the odd officious BW worker and you'll get the odd officious volunteer but, like those boaters who go expecting conflict, they will be mercifully rare.

Edited August 14, 2012 by carlt

[Ian Mac]

If I could adopt a lock and was given a paint brush, paint and gardening tools as well as a windlass, I'd happily volunteer if it freed up the maintenance staff to do more structural rather than decorative jobs.

Ring up and ask your local C&RT volunteer co-ordinator if you can have one, you may be surprised. However you will be "working" for C&RT, so you will have to follow their rules and their health and safety regime, which will include the compulsory training and induction.

And at the moment they appear to want regular commitment. These things may change as time passes and they learn how to use and motivate their volunteers.

--

Cheers Ian Mac

[carlt]

However you will be "working" for C&RT, so you will have to follow their rules and their health and safety regime, which will include the compulsory training and induction.

 

I don't see that as a problem.

[cotswoldsman]

Ring up and ask your local C&RT volunteer co-ordinator if you can have one, you may be surprised. However you will be "working" for C&RT, so you will have to follow their rules and their health and safety regime, which will include the compulsory training and induction.

And at the moment they appear to want regular commitment. These things may change as time passes and they learn how to use and motivate their volunteers.

--

Cheers Ian Mac

 

So go to an Insurance company ask them to insure you as a volunteer base on the fact that you do not wish to follow any H&S guidelines. Get real CaRT have a duty of care

[Chertsey]

So go to an Insurance company ask them to insure you as a volunteer base on the fact that you do not wish to follow any H&S guidelines. Get real CaRT have a duty of care

Where was Ian unrealistic about this? He's just telling it like it is - no need to be aggressive.

[cotswoldsman]

Where was Ian unrealistic about this? He's just telling it like it is - no need to be aggressive.

Aggressive????

[Chertsey]

Aggressive????

As in 'get real'

 

All I can say is that and the general tone sound aggressive to me, and I'm no shrinking violet. I got the impression you'd misread Ian's post and reacted accordingly.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Chertsey

[Timleech]

I accept you are telling the truth, but I've been though all of those flights, some of them several times, and never had the lock keeper actually operate the lock (and not because I asked him or her not to, but perhaps they didn't see the need, or perhaps they didn't even see me).

 

That said, I do recall being helped through Hanwell Locks about twenty years ago by the lock keeper. She (note SHE) refilled the pounds ahead of me, which was far more useful than working the locks the boat was in, given the dippy crew I'd got: in one lock the crew opened the gate paddles and hadn't noticed the pound was empty until I pointed out the only thing coming through them was daylight!

 

To get back on track, I think CRT are looking to inflate volunteer numbers rather than actually get them to do anything essential

 

We were helped through Hanwell in May this year by two volunteer lock keepers who were very good, and who had been doing the 'job' for at least two years.

Very useful because the locks themselves are not well maintained.

 

Tim

[mayalld]

I've never met you, but from your recent posts I am building up a picture of your good wife who is not in good health, and yourself who you describe as have physical stature unable (or unwilling) to move quickly. Perhaps you are the type of folk behind whom a large queue of frustrated boaters tends to build up in lock flights due to sluggish operation of locks

 

Your picture isn't accurate!

 

Bev has a heart arythmia, and was treated for breast cancer last year, and as a result is simply not allowed to indulge in hard physical exercise. Opening Lock gates and winding paddles would be detrimental to her health, but she can steer the boat a damn sight better than many.

 

I am, like many of my age, not of an athletic build, and my clothes appear to have shrunk over the years. Running about doesn't feature as a major part of my daily life.

 

So far as waiting crowds behind us are concerned, it just doesn't happen. We regularly find ourselves snapping at the heels of boats with vast crews.

[David Schweizer]

I have waited for a while to see how this thread developed before describing my experience of encounters with the new CaRT volunteers, and it has been a bit like the Curates's egg, but none which caused me to get upset.

 

Our first encounter was not disagreeable but was not the best introduction to the new scheme. At Stoke Bruerne a volunteer asked me to wait until another boat came up through the lock before progressing down the flight. A perfectly reasonable request as the lock was empty, except that there was no boat coming up. I waited for about 20 minutes and then walked down the first few locks to see if I could assist the boat "coming up" but there was no boat. Returning to the top lock I asked the volunteer whether she had checked whether a boat was coming up, but it turned out that she had not. However, she stated that I should still wait unless another boat joined us to go down, as that is what she had been told on the training course. After a further ten minutes with no boat in either direction, I politely informed her that I felt I had waited quite long enough and was going to turn the lock and progress down the flight, she was not happy with my decision, but did nothing to prevent me, she didn't offer to help either.

 

Our second encounter on our return journey was much more positive. Halfway up the Buckby/Whilton flight we met the volunteer Lock keeper, who was helpful and polite, opening gates and offering to pull paddles etc, this was the same chap to whom I demonstrated the effect of opening the ground paddle on the same side of the boat when it is less than 60ft long. It turned out that he was a recent boat owner himself, and moored in a marina only a mile away from our mooring.

 

Our third encounter was "interesting". Two volunteer lock keepers near the top of the Hatton flight watched me empty each lock and re-fill it to advance progress up the flight, but on no occassion did they offer any assistance, in fact they were so engrossed in talking to each other that they completely ignored us. I am not sure what purpose they were fulfilling as they were not close enough to the locks to deal with any incident had one occurred.

 

Our fourth, and last, experience was on the Lapworth flight where we met four Volunteers being supervised by two CaRT employees. Between the six of them they did not have a single windlass, and just as on the Hatton flight we emptied and re-filled every lock to advance progress, without any assistance. Half way up the flight we met them again emerging from the cafe, where they split ino two groups each armed with a pauint brush and a pot of paint. My wife jokingly suggested to the woman volunteer that a windlass might be of more use than a paintbrush, and interestingly when we reached the top of the flight she had returned to her car, retrieved a windlass, and helped us through the top lock with a smile.

 

We then progressed through Birmingham and along the tortuous Stourbridge canal in blistering heat, where any assistance would have been gratefully received, but encountered no one, in fact from Gas Street Basin to Stourton junction we only passed one boat in two days!

 

So a mixed and interesting first experience of the new CaRT volunteer scheme. I guess that the good volunteers will stay because their helpful approach will be acknowledged by boaters, and those that see it as an opportunity to have authority over others will dissapear under a shower of digruntled comments. I was, and remain, sceptical about the scheme, not because I disaprove of voluntary contribution, but because of of the risk that the systyem will increasingly become dependant upon volunteers whilst, often long serving and loyal employees are dismissed. If the scheme releases existing staff to engage in more demanding maintenance, I will be much happier, but unfortunately the cynic in me suggests otherwise, however I am willing to witness the long term outcome before condemming the scheme.

[nicknorman]

Your picture isn't accurate!.

I know, but it was fun to paint!

Edited August 14, 2012 by nicknorman

[kiki]

Your picture isn't accurate!

 

Bev has a heart arythmia, and was treated for breast cancer last year, and as a result is simply not allowed to indulge in hard physical exercise. Opening Lock gates and winding paddles would be detrimental to her health, but she can steer the boat a damn sight better than many.

 

I am, like many of my age, not of an athletic build, and my clothes appear to have shrunk over the years. Running about doesn't feature as a major part of my daily life.

 

So far as waiting crowds behind us are concerned, it just doesn't happen. We regularly find ourselves snapping at the heels of boats with vast crews.

 

I can vouch for this, The fragrant Mrs M is an active lady simply following doctors orders and Dave is the picture of health.... Actaully being the youngest ones in our boating social goup perhpas he just appears to be.

[jonathanA]

Ring up and ask your local C&RT volunteer co-ordinator if you can have one, you may be surprised. However you will be "working" for C&RT, so you will have to follow their rules and their health and safety regime, which will include the compulsory training and induction.

And at the moment they appear to want regular commitment. These things may change as time passes and they learn how to use and motivate their volunteers.

--

Cheers Ian Mac

 

This is a very important point, it takes a lot of effort to recruit, train and retain volunteers, and if CaRT try to treat them as unpaid employees or 'dogsbodies' then volunteers will vote with their feet.... I speak with some experience as a charity trustee of youth organisation that relies on volunteers - They take some managing, in many ways its much harder than employees.

 

in terms of insurance providing some third party liability insurance and even a basic personal injury policy I wouldn't think would cost a huge amount extra on top of what CaRT already pays anyway.

 

I've yet to meet a voluntary lock keeper, but if they were painting/greasing locks and gear then I'd think that was a worthwhile use as would helping boaters through locks !

 

I suspect the CaRT bureaucracy around issuing a tin of black paint and a paint brush would mean its more likely that a volunteer would turn up with their own !

[Chertsey]

If one of these unpaid helpers tells you off, do you get a vollocking?

[carlt]

If one of these unpaid helpers tells you off, do you get a vollocking?

And this week's golden coat award goes to...

[Barnfather]

Our fourth, and last, experience was on the Lapworth flight where we met four Volunteers being supervised by two CaRT employees. Between the six of them they did not have a single windlass, and just as on the Hatton flight we emptied and re-filled every lock to advance progress, without any assistance. Half way up the flight we met them again emerging from the cafe, where they split ino two groups each armed with a pauint brush and a pot of paint. My wife jokingly suggested to the woman volunteer that a windlass might be of more use than a paintbrush, and interestingly when we reached the top of the flight she had returned to her car, retrieved a windlass, and helped us through the top lock with a smile.

 

It may well have been that the volunteers were not there for the purpose of assisting in the lock operation, but rather in the sprucing up of the immediate area around the lock (planting, painting etc). I understand that many casual towpath-based volunteering opportunities exist which are nothing to do with lock operation. Worth bearing in mind when approaching a lock with volunteers - especially groups of them.

 

And I note with interest the comments about using a centre rope in locks. As a cruiser owner I am acutely aware of the potential danger of nb's and heard a nb the other day tell us that they wouldn't share a broad lock with us as previously they 'amost crushed a cruiser'. It turned out, that they (the nb) had not used ropes to secure the boat however as it was relayed to us, this was somehow the cruiser's fault! I've also had to fend off untied nb's in locks on several occasions where it was clear that the 'experienced' nb skipper had little actual control over their boat.

 

If people want to use ropes or otherwise in locks is entirely up to them, however when sharing with any boat (whether plastic, steel or wood) - there should be some consideration to the other boats wishes.

 

Not wanting to start a tupperware vs crawler debate though! Just an observation

[GUMPY]

it is perfectly possible to have a NB and a cruiser going uphil in the same wide lock with no ropes used.

You just have to open the paddles in the correct order and the correct ammount.

Edited August 14, 2012 by idleness