TravelPower

[fudd]

Morning all. We have a Lister HW3 on Hunter and we were wondering if it was capable of running a TravelPower or something similar. We have a 2pot lister genset but its noisy and takes up a lot of room. Would really like to liberate some space Ta. Steve P.

[Arthur Brown]

There has been lots of complaints about TravelPower units - Not hugely reliable and V.expensive to repair. It's the electronics that break.

I had its predecessor a SeaPower on mine Fab while it worked (5 years). One day it stopped, no bang, no smell. No obvious reason. A very, very nice man in Atherstone said "can't get the parts anymore.....

 

 

With a TP you always have to run the engine, with a suitably sized alternator / battery setup you only have to run the engine when you need to....

 

 

A non too positive reference to a travelpower from this forum today.

 

Note the bit- you always have to have the main engine running. Sometimes a battery - inverter system is better, sometimes the redundancy of a separate generator is beneficial.

[Timleech]

A non too positive reference to a travelpower from this forum today.

 

Note the bit- you always have to have the main engine running. Sometimes a battery - inverter system is better, sometimes the redundancy of a separate generator is beneficial.

 

Where have all these complaints been?

Yes they can be expensive to repair, I gather that the current units are more reliable than the older (black) models.

 

To my mind (never used one personally) the great advantage of the Travel Power should be that the batteries are not being depleted. Running something like a washing machine, you're very likely to be taking more out of the battery than is being put in by the alternator for part of the cycle, assuming that you are actually running the engine at the time, and it takes longer to put it back than to take it out.

Inverters can also go wrong, and be expensive or uneconomic to repair.

 

Tim

[mrsmelly]

Where have all these complaints been?

Yes they can be expensive to repair, I gather that the current units are more reliable than the older (black) models.

 

To my mind (never used one personally) the great advantage of the Travel Power should be that the batteries are not being depleted. Running something like a washing machine, you're very likely to be taking more out of the battery than is being put in by the alternator for part of the cycle, assuming that you are actually running the engine at the time, and it takes longer to put it back than to take it out.

Inverters can also go wrong, and be expensive or uneconomic to repair.

 

Tim

 

Yes well put. Put simply the travel power is hugely better than a battery and inverter set up. I had one on my last liveaboard, not plugged in boat and it was awesome. The beauty is that for one dose of fuel you get propulsion. power for the washer or whatever and completely charged batteries at the same time. Mine was 9 years old when I sold the boat last year and still working faultlesly. They can be totaly refurbed for less than a grand if they go wrong. A large inverter running a washing machine etc through a bank of batteries for over an hour every time you do it with the engine switched off is utter madness. ask Gibbo.

 

Tim

 

A non too positive reference to a travelpower from this forum today.

 

Note the bit- you always have to have the main engine running. Sometimes a battery - inverter system is better, sometimes the redundancy of a separate generator is beneficial.

 

Hi Arthur

 

How many years as a liveaboard user did yourself or Old goat have before your Travel power units failed ?

 

Tim

[by'eck]

Well since many are jumping on the unreliable bandwagon, I suspect in some cases because of what a friend of a friend said down the pub a few years back. I shall promote the pro TravelPower camp along with Tim.

 

Have seen many positive comments usually along the lines of once installed wouldn't be without it. The concept is basically an engine driven alternator (similar to the one you have already) coupled to a pure sinewave inverter (which will probably be needed anyway if you don't have a Travelpower) to produce 230v AC. Batteries are taken out of the equation and the engine only runs at a speed needed to supply the load current.

 

I would also mention the Dynawatt system, similar in concept and price to the TravelPower. This uses the three phase output of a 250v alternator to produce 230v AC at 50Hz irrespective of engine speed. Indication is given if higher engine revs are needed to match a particular load.

 

They supply installations to suit Allison gas turbines used in aviation, and they don't fit dodgy kit to them.

 

Although I'm not having one fitted initially to my own boat, I have contingency to allow for one later with the five A groove engine pulley I specified.

[smudge837]

 

 

I would also mention the Dynawatt system, similar in concept and price to the TravelPower. This uses the three phase output of a 250v alternator to produce 230v AC at 50Hz irrespective of engine speed. Indication is given if higher engine revs are needed to match a particular load.

 

 

 

Hi,

At £2300ish plus fixing kits, does this compare with other systems?

 

I have come across this system before while digging around, it just seems a tad pricey to me. I suppose if you get 10 years out of it then might work out ok.

 

Cheers

 

Smudge

[Chris Pink]

Well since many are jumping on the unreliable bandwagon, I suspect in some cases because of what a friend of a friend said down the pub a few years back. I shall promote the pro TravelPower camp along with Tim.

 

 

Well if anyone wants to give me their unreliable TravelPower system, I would be happy to take it off their hands.

 

Hi,

At £2300ish plus fixing kits, does this compare with other systems?

 

I have come across this system before while digging around, it just seems a tad pricey to me. I suppose if you get 10 years out of it then might work out ok.

 

Cheers

 

Smudge

 

I would imagine, without doing the sums that £2,300 is pretty competitive for a 3.5KW alternator and inverter.

 

3.5KW at 12V = 300A

 

<teeth sucking> 300A alternator</teeth sucking>

[Albion]

Well since many are jumping on the unreliable bandwagon, I suspect in some cases because of what a friend of a friend said down the pub a few years back. I shall promote the pro TravelPower camp along with Tim.

 

Have seen many positive comments usually along the lines of once installed wouldn't be without it. The concept is basically an engine driven alternator (similar to the one you have already) coupled to a pure sinewave inverter (which will probably be needed anyway if you don't have a Travelpower) to produce 230v AC. Batteries are taken out of the equation and the engine only runs at a speed needed to supply the load current.

 

I would also mention the Dynawatt system, similar in concept and price to the TravelPower. This uses the three phase output of a 250v alternator to produce 230v AC at 50Hz irrespective of engine speed. Indication is given if higher engine revs are needed to match a particular load.

 

They supply installations to suit Allison gas turbines used in aviation, and they don't fit dodgy kit to them.

 

Although I'm not having one fitted initially to my own boat, I have contingency to allow for one later with the five A groove engine pulley I specified.

We had a Travelpower on our first French boat and it did everything that we wanted. I was also involved with the choice and specification of a Dynawatt system for Lister marine engines when I used to work for Lister-Petter years ago. These systems are well proven and seem to do the job if you don't want a separate genny. I believe that they are used on ambulances/rescue/military type vehicles so they should be OK IMO.

Possibly the only complication that is potentially involved that hasn't been mentioned so far is the difficulty of fitting another alternator to the front of the main engine. The limitations on mounting points, space and drive systems tends to mean that the (more normal these days) twin alternators (one for start battery, one for domestics) has to be replaced with one large alternator and a split charge relay system to allow room for the TP/DW to be fitted.

Roger

[Robbo]

Have seen many positive comments usually along the lines of once installed wouldn't be without it. The concept is basically an engine driven alternator (similar to the one you have already) coupled to a pure sinewave inverter (which will probably be needed anyway if you don't have a Travelpower) to produce 230v AC. Batteries are taken out of the equation and the engine only runs at a speed needed to supply the load current.

 

Wouldn't it be better if you had a large amp alternator and Inverter, your roughly spending the same amount of money but getting the benefit of been able to use with no engine running if need be.

[Timleech]

Wouldn't it be better if you had a large amp alternator and Inverter, your roughly spending the same amount of money but getting the benefit of been able to use with no engine running if need be.

 

See Chris's post re size of alternator needed to be comparable, plus loads of extra battery capacity if you want the option of running whatever kit you need without the engine.

 

Tim

[nicknorman]

The limitations on mounting points, space and drive systems tends to mean that the (more normal these days) twin alternators (one for start battery, one for domestics) has to be replaced with one large alternator and a split charge relay system to allow room for the TP/DW to be fitted.

 

But not necessarily - our Beta 43 has a small engine alternator, a 175A domestic alternator, and a 3.5KVA TravelPower alternator. I agree it could be difficult to retrofit a 3rd alternator if the installation of the first 2 hasn't taken into account the possibility of a 3rd.

[Robbo]

See Chris's post re size of alternator needed to be comparable, plus loads of extra battery capacity if you want the option of running whatever kit you need without the engine.

 

Two alternators would cover it if you wanted to use the full inverter power for good period of time. I'm guessing most won't be using all the amps all the time, if this is the case you could get away with only using one alternator and the batteries suppling the other.

 

And as said, you've got the option of running 240v stuff without the engine running.

[Chris Pink]

My ideal situation would be a travelpower for big loads and a small <500w inverter for small loads and an eu10i for battery charging.

 

Redundancy? Yes but a minimum level.

 

I wouldn't use more than 1000 w (and in reality a lot less) of inverted power off a typical battery bank without putting it back in at the same time.

 

And yes, 300a of alternator and 3kw of inverter would do the same job but would cost more once batteries were factored in. And that inverter would be horrendously inefficient for small loads which are more typical of liveaboard usage.

 

My power demands ( still in my ideal world) would be a few hours of big power a week. A lot of hours of small 240v and a lot of hours of LV.

 

The main drawback to the system outlined above is storing the excess power when cruising or washing clothes. But as I spent £4,000 on generation a grand or so on a big battery bank would alleviate this.

 

And cost effective against an Onan or similar. And a lot more versatile.

 

Versatility is one of the big factors in off-grid generation.

 

Oh, and keep those offers of travelpowers coming. I'm not overwhelmed yet.

[bowten]

I have used Travel Packs on every boat I have owned.All of these are still running,some of them are now almost 10 years old and are used by liveaboards.None of them have said they have had trouble with them.Most recent boat is fitted with Victron 1200watt inverter/charger and thats enough for all domestic use.The beauty of the system is that it is like being on shore power all the time,so need for complicated alternator controllers and the subsequent wiring to go with them as the Victron charger thinks it is on shore power.Brilliant equipment get one.

[Robbo]

And yes, 300a of alternator and 3kw of inverter would do the same job but would cost more once batteries were factored in. And that inverter would be horrendously inefficient for small loads which are more typical of liveaboard usage.

 

You missing the other main advantage of alternators and inverter and that the battery charging would be adaptive to the rest of the power usage. With a travel power, you'll need either a alternator or 240v charger which will try to use as much power as the batteries need so you may not be able to using the washing machine and charge batteries at the same time.

 

My ideal setup for a live aboard is similar to what I have.

 

Wet exhaust Diesel AC generator. I have a 4Kw.

Combi Charger/Inverter of whatever size you need when not using the generator. I have 2Kw.

 

The additions to mine would be..

Decent size alternator - one to match the inverter would be ideal.

Solar panels, enough to keep the 24/7 stuff going if can.

[bowten]

Not sure how true this is,however I was told by some boffin that a similar device to the Travel Power could be made from a washing machine motor running in reverse.Over to you,the boffins on here.

 

When running a washing machine with a travel pack,any spare voltage is put through the charger and dumped into the batteries.I would never use the inverter to run such high powered consumer devices no matter what size of battery bank I had.

[David Mack]

I would also mention the Dynawatt system, similar in concept and price to the TravelPower.

 

Accordin to the Dynawatt website, on boats the system allows you to use "air-conditioning, microwave, coffee machine, hair-drier, radar, pumps, desalination system - everything needed for comfort on board".

 

Just the job for a narrowboat then!

[Chris Pink]

 

 

Wet exhaust Diesel AC generator. I have a 4Kw.

Combi Charger/Inverter of whatever size you need when not using the generator. I have 2Kw.

 

 

Essentially a travelpower with a 2nd engine

[Robbo]

Essentially a travelpower with a 2nd engine

 

Yes but the main advantage of a genny is that it isn't your main engine. As the travel power uses the main engine then you lose that advantage. The only reason I can see using a travelpower is that you don't need as large as inverter. I can see the advantage of using a travel power and combi, so you get the power-assist of the combi, adaptive power for charging and you won't need as large as travelpower as first thought.

 

A travelpower and combi would make a good combination, but large alternator(s) and inverter would give you the same benefits and to be honest it would hard to advise which would be the best option to go for unless you already have some of the equipment.

 

I think that Victron booklet that's pinned in the equipment section does go into this...

Edited May 14, 2012 by Robbo

[OldGoat]

Not sure how true this is,however I was told by some boffin that a similar device to the Travel Power could be made from a washing machine motor running in reverse.Over to you,the boffins on here.

 

Probably the same bloke I met in the '90s who said he could get all the power you need from a standard alternator running at 100,000 rpm (yes one hundred thousand). He even got a grant to develop it.

 

 

There are to many posts above for me to quote specifically

Reliability of Travel Power units were discussed on this forum last year (oh for a decent search facility), there were enough to make me feel they had some credibility. The importer told me a while ago that there had been some problems with the electronics.

Whatever system you use employs an inverter of some sort. The SeaPower (black unit) and I think TravelPower have alternators that deliver 3 phase AC at 110 or 240V which is rectified to 110 or 240V DC and converted to 240V AC 50Hz. The conversion is done using inverter technology.

 

I had a girt big 175amp 24V alternator on my rig - that equates to 350 amps @ 12V.

 

So while it worked I had the best of both worlds.

Genny power for high current AC use

Large alternator(s) for battery charging

Smaller inverter for TV HiFi and so on.

 

I'm comfortable with most aspects of 'leccy, so I'm not fazed by wiring and switches

 

My SP lasted for 5 years before it died. The irritating thing was that it was hardly ever used - project that didn't materialise - so it shouldn't have failed. That to my mind is the main issue with these - the equipment is rotating and the electronics are available the whole time the engine is running - and I think they need to be "worked"; analogous to a diesel engine glazing it's bores, or they fail?

 

 

 

That's my experience FWIW which might be more useful that saying "do it that way"

[dmr]

I'm comfortable with most aspects of 'leccy, so I'm not fazed by wiring and switches

 

My SP lasted for 5 years before it died. The irritating thing was that it was hardly ever used - project that didn't materialise - so it shouldn't have failed. That to my mind is the main issue with these - the equipment is rotating and the electronics are available the whole time the engine is running - and I think they need to be "worked"; analogous to a diesel engine glazing it's bores, or they fail?

 

 

 

That's my experience FWIW which might be more useful that saying "do it that way"

 

 

Our TravelPowr is never turned off so whenever we run the engine we have 240v and all the little charger thingys do their job.

 

I have never really though about bore glazing in semi-conductors!

In general working electronics very hard can eventually wear them out as the tiny thermal expansion of the innards does take its toll.

However, depending upon where the electronics are mounted it is possible then infrequent use could lead to the build up of moisture giving a sort of "wet glazing" of connections!!!!!!!!!!

 

..........Dave

 

....Actually you might be right I think electrolytic capacitors can behave badly if unused, but you would have to leave them for a long time!

........Dave

[Joshua]

Aqua Narrowboats have just decommissioned aTravelPower from my boat to make way for a different system. It's for sale if anyone is looking for one.

 

 

 

Joshua

[Robbo]

When running a washing machine with a travel pack,any spare voltage is put through the charger and dumped into the batteries.I would never use the inverter to run such high powered consumer devices no matter what size of battery bank I had.

 

Does that mean the travelpower is a battery charger as well? So basically a 12/24v and 240v alternator?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Robbo

[by'eck]

Does that mean the travelpower is a battery charger as well? So basically a 12/24v and 240v alternator?

 

No - bowten was just explaining that the 240v AC the Travelpower exclusively produces could be used to power your battery charger instead of the usual shore power.

[trackman]

Nearly 6 years with a Travelpower and no problems. We have an inverter (1800W) and switch it on about half a dozen times a year at most. We really don't need the inverter, but the boat came with it included in the price.

 

The beauty of the Travelpower is that we can do the heavy electrical stuff like laundry while cruising with no stress on batteries or 12V alternators. Our first set of domestic batteries (4 x 110Ah basic leisure batteries) lasted 5 1/2 years liveaboard use before we had to switch them. The new ones are identical, saw no need to bother with anything more fancy and expensive as they get a pretty easy life.

 

Friends had a boat with a Travelpower and when they switched to their current boat without one, they quickly found they missed it. They have had no end of bother with batteries and charging as they now use the batteries and inverter to do the laundry and the fancy system that is supposed to cater for this really can't hack it. It's a well known system; I won't name it (not Victron), but I wouldn't consider one like it!