Gas Bullsh**

[Radiomariner]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of the BSS tightness test. The present instructions for examiners are as follows: -

 

LPG INSTALLATION TIGHTNESS TESTING USING A MANOMETER (U-GAUGE) Verbatim

 

TEST PROCEDURE

C.1 PREPARATIONS

1, Examine high-pressure stage components before opening cylinder valves

2. Test high-pressure stage components with leak detection fluid

3. Check for presence of main shut-off valve after the regulator.

4. Close main shut-off valve (if fitted). If not present, turn off supply at the cylinder{s)

5. Turn off all appliances

 

C.2. CONNECTING 'U' GAUGE

1. Zero 'U' Gauge

2. Connect 'U' gauge to test fitting

 

C.3. TEST PROCEDURE: LET BY TEST

1. Gradually turn on main shut-off valve

2. Note regulator lock-up pressure

3. Close main shut off valve

4. Light one appliance and let pressure fall to 5 mbar

5. Close appliance tap.

6. Leave for 5 min for stabalisation and record the reading on the 'U' gauge

7. Note reading and leave for a further 5 min

8. Record reading on 'U' gauge

9. Any rise in the reading indicates let by from the main shut-off valve

 

C.4. TEST PROCEDURE: PIPEWORK LEAKAGE

1. Ensure all appliances and main shut-off valve turned off and appliance isolation valves left on

2. Turn on main shut-off valve and allow system to reach lock-up pressure.

3. Close the main shut-off valve

4. Light one appliance burner and allow pressure to fall to 30 mbar (propane) and 20 mbar (Butane)

5. Close appliance tap.

6. Leave for 5 min for stabalisation and record pressure in 'U' gauge

7. Identify rise in pressure reading indicating main shut off valve let by has developed.

8. Leave for a further 5 min and record pressure in 'U' gauge

9. There must be no discernible pressure drop in the system

 

C.5. POST-TEST PROCEDURE.

1. Release pressure in system by lighting an appliance burner.

2. The opportunity should now be taken to light all appliance burners to carry an assessment of all flame pictures as required at Checklist item 8.8.1 and a check on any flue required at 8.10.1

3. When these tests have been completed and the burners turned off, turn off gas supply at main valve and disconnect the 'U' gauge

4. Replace test nipple & test fitting using leak-detection fluid.

 

With regard to C.5. 1. I find it more sensable, to release the pressure in the system after checking flames etc. just before disconnecting the 'U' gauge,. I never noticed it before but think that is a misprint

 

Edited to add: -

The BSS Guide is currently under review and it is anticipated there will be some changes regarding gas tightness testing.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Radiomariner

[dor]

My comment about the gas locker was really aimed at the unprotected regulator. As I understand it the regulator and C/O valve should be protected from being hit by a gas cylinder, either during changing or due to possible movement during an impact.

 

I assumed that he would have a second cylinder fitted for the test; it is certainly unwise to reply on the NRV on the pigtail.

[Biggles]

My comment about the gas locker was really aimed at the unprotected regulator. As I understand it the regulator and C/O valve should be protected from being hit by a gas cylinder, either during changing or due to possible movement during an impact.

 

I assumed that he would have a second cylinder fitted for the test; it is certainly unwise to reply on the NRV on the pigtail.

 

You will see there are cut outs to guide the bottles in so they can't hit the reg. The bottles will only go in through these cut outs. In the very unlikely event that a bottle should fall the reg is high enough up that the arc of the falling bottle would miss it.

[Chris Pink]

Makes you wonder why anyone bothers to post anything on here so the likes of Mayall can just tear it apart.

It seems to me that your installation is at least as good as any other DIY, probably at least as good as mayalld's DIY job.

 

and there is no better way of getting something right than doing it twice.

 

Please don't stop posting stuff because underneath all that crap there will be a fair few people who have learnt a few things by reading this through (myself included).

[mayalld]

Makes you wonder why anyone bothers to post anything on here so the likes of Mayall can just tear it apart.

It seems to me that your installation is at least as good as any other DIY, probably at least as good as mayalld's DIY job.

 

More of the same old abuse from Pinky.

 

The OP has installed a gas system without reading the requirements for such a system, he has trumpeted that he has tested it, and shown that he hasn't a clue how to do a soundness test, and in another thread has talked about how he refils gas bottles that are not designed for self-fill.

 

By his own description of his activities, he has shown that he lacks the competence to install gas. His system might not explode, it might not leak, but that is more down to good fortune than to competent installation.

 

As you know nothing of my installation, you comments are clearly all about flinging abuse.

[smileypete]

No. as he has not tested from the regulator to the isolation valve (Unless he has tested at High Pressure the pigtails, regulator and associated changeover valve with it off in which case the test would prove the connection)

OK so what's a good way of testing the high pressure side up to the regulator? Would it be to check the bottle valve for let by then check it holds pressure some way? Leak detector spray?

 

 

You will see there are cut outs to guide the bottles in so they can't hit the reg. The bottles will only go in through these cut outs. In the very unlikely event that a bottle should fall the reg is high enough up that the arc of the falling bottle would miss it.

Good idea, if it doesn't quite do a couple of lengths of bar/studding across the opening might do.

 

cheers,

Pete. smpt

Edited May 15, 2012 by smileypete

[Chris Pink]

More of the same old abuse from Pinky.

 

The OP has installed a gas system without reading the requirements for such a system, he has trumpeted that he has tested it, and shown that he hasn't a clue how to do a soundness test, and in another thread has talked about how he refils gas bottles that are not designed for self-fill.

 

By his own description of his activities, he has shown that he lacks the competence to install gas. His system might not explode, it might not leak, but that is more down to good fortune than to competent installation.

 

As you know nothing of my installation, you comments are clearly all about flinging abuse.

 

aah bless, when any criticism of your posts or your approach is seen as abuse I guess that you feel very sensitive under that cold exterior.

[Biggles]

Makes you wonder why anyone bothers to post anything on here so the likes of Mayall can just tear it apart.

It seems to me that your installation is at least as good as any other DIY, probably at least as good as mayalld's DIY job.

 

and there is no better way of getting something right than doing it twice.

 

Please don't stop posting stuff because underneath all that crap there will be a fair few people who have learnt a few things by reading this through (myself included).

 

Thanks Chris.

 

I post here to share my experiences., ask questions, and generally try to be a decent member.

 

Who hasn't had to do something over? Perhaps it would be better not to share problems only successes, but then who would learn from that? I'm not too proud to admit mistakes and learn from it.

 

Shame is that clearly some of the points Mayallds and co mention are worthwhile, but delivered and lost in a shell of personal attack. Such is life!

[Machpoint005]

Having watched this thread with interest, but not said anything, I do think we should keep a couple of important points in mind.

 

The BBS regulations are there for a reason - to protect boat owners, boat users and the general public. They may not be perfect in every respect. However, until such time as they are modified or updated, they are the rules, and an examiner has no choice but to follow them. If he finds something non-compliant, he has to fail it, regardless of whether it's really OK or not.

 

There's an engineering saying from long, long ago: 'When all else fails, read the instructions'. Unfortunately, history is littered with the tragic results of people thinking they knew what they were doing, and thinking they knew better than the rules. There is simply no excuse for not following guidance when it is freely available. The OP damned himself when he said that he didn't have time to keep up with changes in regulations - in other words, he doesn't (or didn't) know what the regulations were. This is, IMO, pretty close to criminal ignorance, given the possible consequences.

[the grinch]

OK so what's a good way of testing the high pressure side up to the regulator? Would it be to check the bottle valve for let by then check it holds pressure some way? Leak detector spray?

 

 

 

 

 

the correct way is with a Bourdon Guage and a tee piece fitting (male /female POL ends) inserted between bottle and pigtail you check one bottle or side, then check the other remembering to change over the valve before doing the 2nd (i have forgotten once or twice and had to start again!!

[Biggles]

Having watched this thread with interest, but not said anything, I do think we should keep a couple of important points in mind.

 

. The OP damned himself when he said that he didn't have time to keep up with changes in regulations - in other words, he doesn't (or didn't) know what the regulations were. This is, IMO, pretty close to criminal ignorance, given the possible consequences.

 

What I actually said was in my business I neither had the time or inclination to get qualified. I do wish people would read things properly. I thought I explained it pretty clearly.

 

Is there such a thing a criminal ignorance?

Edited May 15, 2012 by Biggles

[mayalld]

Is there such a thing a criminal ignorance?

 

 

Yes.

 

HTH

[Biggles]

I think you are muddling this with

 

Linky

[Albion]

You will see there are cut outs to guide the bottles in so they can't hit the reg. The bottles will only go in through these cut outs. In the very unlikely event that a bottle should fall the reg is high enough up that the arc of the falling bottle would miss it.

A genuine question then Kevin. I always thought that the regs required the bottles to be secured against falling over (on all my boats they have been in fact). You say that, if they fell, they would miss the regulator and changeover valve assembly and I take your word for that. However if they fell suddenly, say due to a boat collision, wouldn't you risk the hoses being kinked/stretched and possibly fractured whereas if the bottles were secured this couldn't happen? This is purely for my interest and education.

Roger

[RLWP]

A genuine question then Kevin. I always thought that the regs required the bottles to be secured against falling over (on all my boats they have been in fact). You say that, if they fell, they would miss the regulator and changeover valve assembly and I take your word for that. However if they fell suddenly, say due to a boat collision, wouldn't you risk the hoses being kinked/stretched and possibly fractured whereas if the bottles were secured this couldn't happen? This is purely for my interest and education.

Roger

 

The falling over bit is right, the securing bit isn't necessarily right. Tawny Owl has a locker with three cylinders in it, and they stop each other from falling so no other form of securing is required

 

Richard

Edited May 15, 2012 by RLWP

[mayalld]

I think you are muddling this with

 

Linky

 

 

No I'm not,

[Albion]

The falling over bit is right, the securing bit isn't necessarily right. Tawny Owl has a locker with three cylinders in it, and they stop each other from falling so no other form of securing is required

 

Richard

Yes, in that case there is no need for securing as they self-secure (assuming all three are present). I've had four different boats built new now, starting in 1991, 2001, 2006 and 2010 and all have had bottle restraining systems except the first where there were two individual lockers which held one bottle each so, again, no need for restraint. Are you saying that all those builders (four different ones BTW) got it wrong and that there was no need for restraint? In Biggles case the bottles don't self-secure as can be ascertained from what he said and the photo.

Roger

[RLWP]

Yes, in that case there is no need for securing as they self-secure (assuming all three are present). I've had four different boats built new now, starting in 1991, 2001, 2006 and 2010 and all have had bottle restraining systems except the first where there were two individual lockers which held one bottle each so, again, no need for restraint. Are you saying that all those builders (four different ones BTW) got it wrong and that there was no need for restraint? In Biggles case the bottles don't self-secure as can be ascertained from what he said and the photo.

Roger

 

No, I was saying that you don't have to have a securing system if the bottles are self secure.

 

Richard

[dor]

I agree with the 'self-securing' bit; I too have had lockers, including on my current boat, where two bottles fit and don't need restraining as they fill the locker space.

My observation on the locker in question is that, despite the scalloped cutouts, I would have though it was still possible, indeed quite likely, for the bottles to make contact with the regulator or C/O valve while being put in or taken out.

My gas locker is similar, and to protect the regulator there is a steel strap enclosing it to stop the cylinders making contact when being changed.

[Albion]

No, I was saying that you don't have to have a securing system if the bottles are self secure.

 

Richard

 

Ok no probs

 

I agree with the 'self-securing' bit; I too have had lockers, including on my current boat, where two bottles fit and don't need restraining as they fill the locker space.

My observation on the locker in question is that, despite the scalloped cutouts, I would have though it was still possible, indeed quite likely, for the bottles to make contact with the regulator or C/O valve while being put in or taken out.

My gas locker is similar, and to protect the regulator there is a steel strap enclosing it to stop the cylinders making contact when being changed.

My present boat which has restraining chains for the bottles because they don't fill the locker also has a protective shield for the regulator and it does seem a good idea as, as careful as you might be, it is always possible to make a mistake handling a heavy bottle.

Roger

[Biggles]

I agree with the 'self-securing' bit; I too have had lockers, including on my current boat, where two bottles fit and don't need restraining as they fill the locker space.

My observation on the locker in question is that, despite the scalloped cutouts, I would have though it was still possible, indeed quite likely, for the bottles to make contact with the regulator or C/O valve while being put in or taken out.

My gas locker is similar, and to protect the regulator there is a steel strap enclosing it to stop the cylinders making contact when being changed.

 

 

I'm sorry but your observations are quite wrong. Trust me I have tried and there is no way a falling bottle will be ale to hit the regulator.

 

No I'm not,

 

 

Of course your not.

[RLWP]

No, I was saying that you don't have to have a securing system if the bottles are self secure.

 

Richard

 

 

Ok no probs

 

Roger

 

Although, the boat I'm working on at the moment has a gas locker that can only take a single bottle, that cannot move or fall over, and it has a securing chain

 

Richard

[Albion]

Although, the boat I'm working on at the moment has a gas locker that can only take a single bottle, that cannot move or fall over, and it has a securing chain

 

Richard

You can never be too careful

Roger

[Chris Pink]

Although, the boat I'm working on at the moment has a gas locker that can only take a single bottle, that cannot move or fall over, and it has a securing chain

 

Richard

 

Without wishing to be pedantic......ok, revelling in being pedantic. If the bottle isn't going anywhere anyway the chain can't really be called a securing chain.

[FadeToScarlet]

You can never be too careful

Roger

 

Yes, it might capsize!