Tring Summit closure

[matty40s]

Good luck today BSP, if it goes ahead!!! -6 in our marina at the moment, I don't envy you! Stay safe!

 

All quiet on the BSP/Fincher front........does anyone have any news???

[Fat Boat]

One boat they maybe trying to move has been moored in the same spot since last August/September..

 

Let's not kick BW too much but try to interpret the situation after knowing more of the facts, all were given ample time to move to more convenient moorings but chose to try to 'sit it out'.

 

Leo.

 

very generous with the time allocation there, feels a lot longer than that to me, if we are talking about the same barge i have spoken to him about it and he really doesnt care

[Ally]

from FB photo's, it looks like BW are still ice breaking....should be done by nightfall ready for tonights freeze!!

[LEO]

from FB photo's, it looks like BW are still ice breaking....should be done by nightfall ready for tonights freeze!!

 

Hi,

 

BW's tug went through at 11.15am, they had filled the lower pound and the weather was beautiful on the summit and general area to-day. Boats may not have moved due to possible ice damage to their boat's props.

 

All good fun, more later I am sure.

 

Leo.

[Speedwheel]

Cooking with a blow torch is all the rage, thanks to that Heston Bumfountain fella.

 

When I was a child we used to take cob nuts from the garden and cook them with a blow torch. When they exploded we knew they were ready to eat - Mmmmm tasty.

 

Well I'm not lending them their old ice-breaker from the section back again!

 

Oh go on Alan - I'll meet you half way! I need an excuse to go for a test run.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Speedwheel

[Lesd]

I drove over the Cow Roast bridge on the way back to our boat further south, the ice was broken, the pound below full and no sign of BSP on her previous mooring, so she's definitely escaped, looking forward to the blow by blow lol

[alan_fincher]

Well......

 

I'll not steal Lisa's story too much, but can confirm she was told by BW she must be ready to move at 10:00.

 

Suffice it to say that by about 15:30 we had not been given the go ahead to move. (Time may be a bit imprecise, because after over 5 hours of waiting, I was no longer looking at my watch!)

 

After that our passage was fairly straightforward, although large slabs of ice in the winding hole made turning a boat harder than you might expect it to be, and every gate of every lock refused to open fully because of the ice trapped behind it, so Lisa was having to do repeated walking around to open both gates of each pair.

 

The ice thickness varied enormously, but was often as much as 1.5", sometimes at least 2". (Those are real numbers, not the exaggerated figures that people often quote about their ice-breaking exploits!). I don't think "Mabel Stark" would have been up to the task of breaking it all herself - the BW tug had really struggled at points earlier in the day.

 

Anyway an uneventful passage down to Northchurch, but, having started so late, not sensible to have pressed on further, particularly as that would have been in a bit the BW boats had not traversed.

[alan_fincher]

BW are 'pushing' water up into an empty pound, the lock is currently empty and water will be 'pushed' up into it through an already open sluice.

 

The whole job is rather pointless (and dangerous with the canal iced over). Had CCs kept to the rules and BW enforced those rules the situation need not have arisen. One boat they maybe trying to move has been moored in the same spot since last August/September..

 

Let's not kick BW too much but try to interpret the situation after knowing more of the facts, all were given

Mike,

 

This omits to mention that BW were using their tug that broke the ice to retrieve work-boats that were abandoned at New Ground bridge, (and hence heavy ice had to be broken for far further than was necessary to release Lisa's boat - a large part of the delay).

 

So in fact today's "escape from Cow Roast" actually exploited the fact that BW were moving their own boats around. We can't of course be certain this was going to occur today anyway, but I got the distinct impression that it was.

 

I don't really want to get into the debate about the mooring rules, but I think both of us would agree that generally very little enforcement of mooring gets done on the Tring summit pound ? Do you not think this a very strange time for BW to have suddenly started getting interested in it ? On the one hand, yes, you can argue, that by the rules, some of the boats there should not be. But, equally, at the moment, why invest a load of effort into chasing people off a bit of otherwise closed canal, were nobody else can possibly use those moorings once they are removed ? Must be better use of the time of those involved, surely ?

[alan_fincher]

Breaking ice south of Dudswell......

 

 

And north of Cow Roast......

 

 

 

Ice sculpture at the lock cottage where my brother Pete used to live......

 

 

Re-disturbing the ice with Mabel Stark between the Dudswell locks

 

 

[alan_fincher]

Not great quality, as it is just as it came off a compact camera.

 

But this is why we were happy that BW did initial ice-breaking, rather than us.

 

[AJLintern]

They could've done with something a little more pointy

[benfordboy]

Well for once , so far nobody is mocking BW !

 

Maybe not the best way but they do seem to have done for a change what they promised (Even if a few hrs late!)

 

Presume those that were moving have achieved what they needed

 

So far no real negatives comments , so I'll stick my neck out & say well done to the BW crew for having a go today !

[alan_fincher]

They could've done with something a little more pointy

Like this ?????

 

 

(Our "Sickle" is to the North of the planks, so couldn't have helped though!)

 

So far no real negatives comments , so I'll stick my neck out & say well done to the BW crew for having a go today !

All the BW chaps there today were trying hard to be helpful - no complaints there, (particularly as they said they used to have a better ice-breaker than the one on offer today!).

[LEO]

Hi,

 

BW came through with another 'icebreaker' this morning (Sat) to free another flat.

 

This boat (steered by Ian) found it tough going, the canal had frozen overnight.

 

 

Water level good this morning.

 

Leo.

[BlueStringPudding]

Hi,

 

BW are 'pushing' water up into an empty pound, the lock is currently empty and water will be 'pushed' up into it through an already open sluice.

 

The whole job is rather pointless (and dangerous with the canal iced over). Had CCs kept to the rules and BW enforced those rules the situation need not have arisen. One boat they maybe trying to move has been moored in the same spot since last August/September..

 

Let's not kick BW too much but try to interpret the situation after knowing more of the facts, all were given ample time to move to more convenient moorings but chose to try to 'sit it out'.

 

Leo.

 

That genuinely made me laugh out loud, Leo. Because had the boaters who moor on the offside (as you do) not complained to BW that they wanted the stranded CCers billed for winter mooring coz it wasn't fair that you guys paid, BW wouldn't have had to waste all that water nor break all that ice nor pay for staff and the other resources needed to make that all happen.

 

You'll also know that not all the boats moved as they were given the choice (as was I) not to move because of the icy conditions.

So superior gloating and nonsense about what YOU consider ample notice to move (some of us have work, family and life that take priority, as well as a boat, and you do not know why myself and other boaters could not move at such short notice so kindly show at least tact if you can't manage empathy). And YOUR opinion of "ample notice" is only your opinion, especially as BW appear to have conceded that it was not ample notice to move because they made special arrangements for me to do so, and apparently they intend to make further special arrangements for another boat currently still stranded at Cow Roast pound. So expect more wasted water and staff time to facilitate that, and accept that there are consequences to the resentful feelings of moorers when manifested as bitter complaints.

 

Phillip Brogan (with two L's!), Robert and the other BW boys were great - helpful, communicative, sympathetic and very supportive on the day. They had no intention to force the move and genuinely rekindled my faith in the effort they put into an often difficult customer-facing role.

 

The other spectacular irony of the whole event was that the resultant drop in water levels of Cow Roast pound apparently made its water levels LOWER than Tring Summit pound and the stoppage planks finally appeared to seal but with water levels the wrong way round!

 

Would you like, Leo, to give us all examples of the other UK wide stoppages that have trapped boaters with short notice and has resulted in them being forced to pay for an unwanted winter mooring? I only ask because your post has an air of what you think to be justice about it, so I'm assuming you've done some research into this to ensure parity and fair treatment of boaters who aren't the same as you). I'd genuinely be interested if you can because the BW couldn't think of any when I asked.

 

And for the benefit of everyone else reading this:

I'll be posting my videos of the ice breaking tomorrow night, hopefully. Alan Fincher has pretty much told the whole story so I won't repeat it (thanks again for your help on the day, Alan!) but for anyone not on Facebook I'll add to the photos soon too.

Edited February 5, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[LEO]

That genuinely made me laugh out loud, Leo. Because had the boaters who moor on the offside (as you do) not complained to BW that they wanted the stranded CCers billed for winter mooring coz it wasn't fair that you guys paid, BW wouldn't have had to waste all that water nor break all that ice nor pay for staff and the other resources needed to make that all happen.

 

You'll also know that not all the boats moved as they were given the choice (as was I) not to move because of the icy conditions.

So superior gloating and nonsense about what YOU consider ample notice to move (some of us have work, family and life that take priority, as well as a boat, and you do not know why myself and other boaters could not move at such short notice so kindly show at least tact if you can't manage empathy). And YOUR opinion of "ample notice" is only your opinion, especially as BW appear to have conceded that it was not ample notice to move because they made special arrangements for me to do so, and apparently they intend to make further special arrangements for another boat currently still stranded at Cow Roast pound. So expect more wasted water and staff time to facilitate that, and accept that there are consequences to the resentful feelings of moorers when manifested as bitter complaints.

 

Phillip Brogan (with two L's!), Robert and the other BW boys were great - helpful, communicative, sympathetic and very supportive on the day. They had no intention to force the move and genuinely rekindled my faith in the effort they put into an often difficult customer-facing role.

 

The other spectacular irony of the whole event was that the resultant drop in water levels of Cow Roast pound apparently made its water levels LOWER than Tring Summit pound and the stoppage planks finally appeared to seal but with water levels the wrong way round!

 

Would you like, Leo, to give us all examples of the other UK wide stoppages that have trapped boaters with short notice and has resulted in them being forced to pay for an unwanted winter mooring? I only ask because your post has an air of what you think to be justice about it, so I'm assuming you've done some research into this to ensure parity and fair treatment of boaters who aren't the same as you). I'd genuinely be interested if you can because the BW couldn't think of any when I asked.

 

And for the benefit of everyone else reading this:

I'll be posting my videos of the ice breaking tomorrow night, hopefully. Alan Fincher has pretty much told the whole story so I won't repeat it (thanks again for your help on the day, Alan!) but for anyone not on Facebook I'll add to the photos soon too.

 

Sorry I replied but this got lost in the ether I will reply later.

Edited February 5, 2012 by LEO

[Water Rat.]

Edited - better keep quiet.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Water Rat.

[alan_fincher]

The other spectacular irony of the whole event was that the resultant drop in water levels of Cow Roast pound apparently made its water levels LOWER than Tring Summit pound and the stoppage planks finally appeared to seal but with water levels the wrong way round!

This much, I can confirm was absolutely true on Saturday!

 

The net result of all that was done, (for whatever reason!), was to establish a level difference for the first time at New Ground planks, but the reverse of what BW intended to achieve! At about mid-day, the level was several inches lower in the "lagoon", with the level on the rest of the summit significantly up on recent times!

 

Why the planks decided to hold water at this stage, I can only guess, but possibly the icing up was partly responsible ?

 

I think it is far to say that as Leo has demonstrated that BW broke their way through the ice again yesterday, (after it had refrozen after one of the bitterest nights yet), to retrieve another work-boat from New Ground, (when no private boater was coming out, I imagine), that they probably would have done a lot of these boat moves anyway.

 

I can confirm that Phillip Brogan was putting no pressure on that we moved Lisa's boat, and it was her choice to move it anyway. The other lady who had come to move hers at the same time said she wasn't happy to do so in the conditions, and that was accepted, so if there is an insistence that she either pays, or goes, you can probably expect further activity when the ice has gone.

 

Incidentally, another irony is that after I left Lisa above Northchurch lock, water was cascading continually over the gates there, although they had been pumping into that pound earlier in the day.

[koukouvagia]

First of all, congratulations to BW, for what sounds like efforts beyond the call of duty to help you off the summit. I trust you're now somewhere safe and sound.

 

There are, I think, a few misapprehensions in your post to Leo.

 

 

1. Has BW actually told you that they acceded to pressure from long term moorers to charge you for winter moorings after you were caught in the Lagoon? The area has been a hotspot for overstayers for years and since last October BW, having largely solved the licence evader problem, has now decided to crack down on overstayers. It was the decsion of the BW management and the enforcement team not to waive winter mooring charges simply because the summit was closed.

 

2.The waste of water argument is a bit of a red herring. Very little water will have been lost from the summit as a result of the re-filling of the Dusdwell pound, since the newly re-furbished back pumps will be able to restore the water back to the Lagoon. Yes, I grant you there were probably staff costs and backpumping costs.

 

3. The Dudswell pound would have been filled at sometime in order for BW to retrieve their barges left up at New Ground Bridge. They were able and willing to arrange to do this at a time when you were able to move off the summit.

 

4. You imply that the longterm moorers asked BW to attempt to close off the Lagoon. In fact, BW had already taken the decision to do this after meeting with business users on the Friday before they talked to boaters on the Saturday. However, I think you have a point about BW not giving enough warning about their intention of charging for winter moorings.

In hindsight they should have mentioned this in their first bulletin on 10^th January. I also think boaters on the summit received mixed messages from BW when the stoppage was announced. Boaters were told that they could find a safe refuge with adequate water levels either at Marsworth or Cowroast. This encouraged, initially, several boats to move into the Lagoon. It was only later that the enforcement arm of BW told boaters that they were going to apply winter mooring charges.

 

Look forward to seeing the ice-breaking pictures and your escape!

[LEO]

That genuinely made me laugh out loud, Leo. Because had the boaters who moor on the offside (as you do) not complained to BW that they wanted the stranded CCers billed for winter mooring coz it wasn't fair that you guys paid, BW wouldn't have had to waste all that water nor break all that ice nor pay for staff and the other resources needed to make that all happen.

 

Pleased something gave you a laugh! I have never complained to BW about boats moored on the towpath at Cowroast. Now (as far as I am aware have other long term moorers at this site.

 

You'll also know that not all the boats moved as they were given the choice (as was I) not to move because of the icy conditions.

So superior gloating and nonsense about what YOU consider ample notice to move (some of us have work, family and life that take priority, as well as a boat, and you do not know why myself and other boaters could not move at such short notice so kindly show at least tact if you can't manage empathy). And YOUR opinion of "ample notice" is only your opinion, especially as BW appear to have conceded that it was not ample notice to move because they made special arrangements for me to do so, and apparently they intend to make further special arrangements for another boat currently still stranded at Cow Roast pound. So expect more wasted water and staff time to facilitate that, and accept that there are consequences to the resentful feelings of moorers when manifested as bitter complaints.

 

I feel sorry the way money was wasted, not gloating or being judgemental. I let you know on the 7th Jan that the canal would be closed, Most boaters moved off the summit to Marsworth ar Berko.

 

Phillip Brogan (with two L's!), Robert and the other BW boys were great - helpful, communicative, sympathetic and very supportive on the day. They had no intention to force the move and genuinely rekindled my faith in the effort they put into an often difficult customer-facing role.

 

The other spectacular irony of the whole event was that the resultant drop in water levels of Cow Roast pound apparently made its water levels LOWER than Tring Summit pound and the stoppage planks finally appeared to seal but with water levels the wrong way round!

 

Water Level is currently up by 3 to 4 ins at the Cowroast Lagoon - thanks.

 

Would you like, Leo, to give us all examples of the other UK wide stoppages that have trapped boaters with short notice and has resulted in them being forced to pay for an unwanted winter mooring? I only ask because your post has an air of what you think to be justice about it, so I'm assuming you've done some research into this to ensure parity and fair treatment of boaters who aren't the same as you). I'd genuinely be interested if you can because the BW couldn't think of any when I asked.

 

Suggest you contact Sally Ash (BW) and ask about the recent situation at Great Bedwyn where BW have refunded boaters who had paid for a winter mooring and then became trapped (along with CCer's) at short notice by a stoppage.

 

And for the benefit of everyone else reading this:

I'll be posting my videos of the ice breaking tomorrow night, hopefully. Alan Fincher has pretty much told the whole story so I won't repeat it (thanks again for your help on the day, Alan!) but for anyone not on Facebook I'll add to the photos soon too.

 

Look forward to the videos, as I said an needless and dangerous job for all, given the weather conditions.

 

BW did well, they may have felt the need to press ahead with the operation, given that you may have taken time off work to fit in with their timings.

 

We long term moorers at Cowroast try hard to be helpful to other boaters, I let one CWDF boater breast up whilst an engineer carried out engine repairs, (he was unable to do this in the marina), the same boater used my mooring whist I was away from late June to early September (thanks for the excellent bottle of Brandy!). Another CWDF member used a spare mooring for a month or so and another CWDF member was accommodated for a week recently when he needed a safe mooring urgently.

 

Non members are similarly helped.

 

Perhaps they will confirm this......

 

We have helped passing boaters in dire emergency (a heart attack) including taking his wife back and forth to hospital to visit him and providing a temporary breasting up facility. All have free use of electricity if needed.

 

So no gloating in this instance, possibly pity.

 

Leo.

Edited February 5, 2012 by LEO

[alan_fincher]

In hindsight they should have mentioned this in their first bulletin on 10^th January. I also think boaters on the summit received mixed messages from BW when the stoppage was announced. Boaters were told that they could find a safe refuge with adequate water levels either at Marsworth or Cowroast. This encouraged, initially, several boats to move into the Lagoon. It was only later that the enforcement arm of BW told boaters that they were going to apply winter mooring charges.

I think this is a very fair analysis of the situation as I see it.

 

I don't intend to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of how long some boats have stayed at Cow Roast, or on the summit generally, but we all know that for whatever reasans there is generally not a lot of enforcing done. (Not just on the summit - in the whole area South of it too....)

 

Therefore this seems a very odd time to suddenly start trying to enforce winter mooring charges on those that are left locked in there, (in my view).

 

If nothing else, usual arguments that those present are depriving others of the rights to use the temporary moorings there hardly apply in current circumstances, do they ? The tow-path has probably not been as empty there at any point in the last 5 years, and nobody else can currently bring a boat there, except possibly out of the marina.

[alan_fincher]

Yes,

 

I'm very happy to confirm that the permanent Cow Roast moorers are a very helpful lot, and that Mike in particular has been very helpful to us, both in providing facilities to get us out of the clutches of demon marina owner when our boat needed fixing, and loaning us his mooring when we were struggling to find a permanent one themselves.

 

I know with absolute certainty they regularly help out all manner of other boaters, and are an all round good bunch.

 

Back to the current situation - there are possibly still some slightly mixed messages here, though, as some of the posts give the impression that BW were trying to herd people out of the lagoon, whereas as Jim has said, there was an impression that BW were saying it was a safe place where water levels would be maintained, and they should move in to it!

 

The suggestion made at one stage that there would only be enough space for those paying for winter tow-path moorings is clearly a nonsense though. I have not actually seen any evidence of any boats there having a winter mooring permit displayed, (although this doesn't mean they don't have one, I accept!), but most of the length is unoccupied, and not likely to be, whilst planks remain in at one end, and locks on the gates at the other.

[LEO]

Hi,

I thought these pics might be of interest.

 

Water level as at 11.30am Friday 03 Feb 12.

 

Water level as at Sat 11.30am Sat 04 Feb 12

 

Leo.

[BlueStringPudding]

Here's a couple of pics linked to my Facebook page - hope y'all can see them. Not sure how to do it with the vids yet as I only have them on Facebook and my phone just at the mo. Bear with me, I'll have a play and see what I can do...

 

 

 

[BlueStringPudding]

Okay - this may not work. But on the offchance, this link may/will take you to one of the vids:

 

BW pushtug icebreaking