What shell for first time fit out?

[Spacebar]

If you were fitting out your 1st steel narrowboat and had some experience but never done a full fit out would you buy a decent sailaway or a cheaper sailaway knowing that you are bound to make mistakes?

This boat would be to live on and cruise the system.

IM thinking a cheap shell being from Collingwood.

More a case of function over visual appeal.

[mrsmelly]

If you were fitting out your 1st steel narrowboat and had some experience but never done a full fit out would you buy a decent sailaway or a cheaper sailaway knowing that you are bound to make mistakes?

This boat would be to live on and cruise the system.

IM thinking a cheap shell being from Collingwood.

More a case of function over visual appeal.

 

There are many things to consider and you should get many differing replies. A point I would make is that having looked at Collingwood shells earlier this year I found the finish to be absolutely abysmil and would not touch one with a barge pole.

[Spacebar]

There are many things to consider and you should get many differing replies. A point I would make is that having looked at Collingwood shells earlier this year I found the finish to be absolutely abysmil and would not touch one with a barge pole.

Is there a shell you do like?

[Ally]

Hmmm, if you are going to fit out from a lined sailaway, I would go as reputable as possible. We were once asked to fit a lined sailaway (Liverpoll boats one) that had all it electrical tails etc in. All is well, till you realise the bodges behind the scenes and have to start ripping out the lining to re-do the work already done. Then it just becomes more work for more money.

So, I would say either get an unlined sailaway...watertight, maybe batoned and foamed with engine, and take it from there, or get the best company you can to do a lined one, and make sure anything 'behind the scenes' is up to scratch to comply with RCD regs.

The hull itself is really a personal taste choice IMO

[system 4-50]

I am fitting out my 1st steel narrowboat, have no canal-related building experience, and I bought a new Colecraft sailaway shell at the lowest price I could get, no ballast, windows, battens, lining etc (but epoxy blacking). Beauty wasn't my highest priority though I think it is rather good, but the integrity of the build was, and I think I got that. It looks very strong.

Edited November 20, 2011 by system 4-50

[Athy]

Colecraft: never fashionable, always reliable, is my view of them, though I have not owned one.

[Ally]

Good choice System....a company with decent shells, decent reputation, and all the work to do yourself...all the best with her!

[mrsmelly]

Is there a shell you do like?

 

If you want a good build middle of the road very resaleble shell with nice lines I would buy Colecraft everytime. I have also fitted out a new shell from John Pinder which though not quite so pretty was well put together and ended up a nice boat.

[Albion]

Colecraft: never fashionable, always reliable, is my view of them, though I have not owned one.

 

Years ago Colecraft were very dominant in the nb market and were a respected, sought-after, boat builder that built good, solid, reliable upper-middle type boats. You don't seem to hear quite so much about them now but, if they are still operating to the same standards, then the quality will be sound.

Another builder that was once well respected that you don't hear quite as much about these days is Stoke on Trent Boatbuilders. They still advertise but I have no idea whether the present company builds to the same standards as the one that I remember from years ago.

Roger

[alan_fincher]

Hmm,

 

I don't share the view about Collingwood, (effectively Liverpool Boats reborn as a smaller operation). I think a lot of mud gets slung that way simply because they have always been at the more massed produced, lower priced end of the market. Unless standards have massively slipped in the move from Liverpool to Collingwood, (and I've not heard anybody else suggest that), many Liverpool Boats I have seen slipped seem to have a much higher quality of fabrication than things costing a whole heap more, (in some cases at least 50% more - expensive doesn't mean well built, necessarily!).

 

I personally have always liked the Colecraft look, and just find them more sympathetic to the design of old working boats, without making any pretence to be in any way other than a modern boat built for modern purposes.

 

People try all sorts of fancy boat shapes, but I think Colecraft is one of the more practical and better looking, and I'd probably consider them strongly if ever having a new build, (which personally I never would!...). If you have continued to sell as many as they do, you must be doing something right.

 

Stoke on Trent Boat Builders also build boats that are strongly to my taste for a modern boat, as long as they don't go the extra steps of giving them fake adornments to try and make them look what they are not.

 

Will SOTBB do a sail-away, though, I don't know ? They seem to do a lot of fully finished boats, including part built "stock" ones where the customer then specifies quite a bit of the end result.

 

I've commented on those three, because they are well known, and people have already expressed a view.

 

I would say all represent good valued compared to many of the new fabricators that have appeared selling what ostensibly look like shells to a similar spec, but for less money, (I'm thinking of things like the ones sporting nasty metal figureheads to get in the way whilst working locks!). The general standard of these seems poor compared to the more established builders mentioned. If you don't believe me, have a look at just how little is provided in the way of rubbing strakes on some of the newest shells, and how little is done to actually tack some of these things on.

 

Just my views though - others will disagree, as ever.

[andywatson]

Worth considering:

PJ Barber at Long Eaton. Google pjbarberboatbuilderltd

 

He has been quietly building boats and restoring old ones for a long time now.

You will get something with a bit of shape and pedigree at a reasonable price.

 

Don't skimp, buy the best hull you can and make savings elsewhere.

The huli is the boat.

[Mike Jordan]

I would add my vote for colecraft as a sound base. I don't think a lined sailaway is ever a good idea,the linings (even those that are competently done)just get in the way and slow down the real work of fitting out.

[Dr Bradley]

When buying my sailaway I did lots of research, visited loads of builders and knew just what I wanted(or at least thought I did, that proved illusiory). I eventually bought from David Millar Marine who I contacted through Middlewhich Narrowboats. Very happy with the shell and unlike many builders at the cheaper end, he was prepared to build what I wanted, not what they always do. As others have said I would not get lined as you don't know what's behind the linings, and it is also much cheaper to do it yourself, and not that difficult a task provided you are confidant about wiring. I did get it battened and spray foamed, as this was cheaper as part of the build than getting it done later - and in that first cold winter was very glad of it.

[blackrose]

If you were fitting out your 1st steel narrowboat and had some experience but never done a full fit out would you buy a decent sailaway or a cheaper sailaway knowing that you are bound to make mistakes?

This boat would be to live on and cruise the system.

IM thinking a cheap shell being from Collingwood.

More a case of function over visual appeal.

 

I would ask if you've actually seen how many recently built second-hand boats there are out there for sale?

 

I fitted out a sailaway because at that time there weren't that many second-hand widebeams on the market, but I don't think I'd do it again. All those hours of labour have to be costed in and when you do that you might find you're not saving very much.

 

Of course you might want to fit out the boat for reasons other than saving money - getting the interior you want for example. But if you're already concerned about making mistakes then (assuming you haven't already done so), it might be wise to go out and have a look at what's available on the second-hand market. If nothing else you will get some ideas about what you want, what you don't want, and fit out mistakes to avoid.

Edited November 20, 2011 by blackrose

[J R]

Colecraft: never fashionable, always reliable, is my view of them, though I have not owned one.

 

Colecraft. Have fitted out our boat from scratch. Can highly recommend them and would use them again.

[Neil2]

I don't really have the experience to add to this discussion but like lots of boaters who are reasonably handy I'd like to do my own fit out one day. I've met lots of people who have started with shells/sailaways, and others who have completely stripped out an existing boat and refitted it. I don't know how much of a hassle the RCD is when starting with a new boat, but am I right in thinking that if you refit a secondhand boat the RCD doesn't apply?

[Rich]

Price Fallows, Shrewsbury, built our shell and we were, and still are, very happy.

 

Lining out isn't very difficult and is done quicker than we had expected. So much so that when we had finished the lining we thought that the rest of the fitout wouldn't take long. We were wrong. I am an experienced woodworker used to working in old Welsh farmhouses so unright angles and unlevel floors don't throw me but I wouldn't have missed the experience of fitting out my own boat. Very satisfying and you get almost what you wanted.

 

Of course, actually finishing can be a problem.

 

Rich

Edited November 20, 2011 by Rich

[Yarwood]

We are currently in the process of having on our second boat fitted out by Barnowl Narrowboats.

 

The first boat has a Reeves (I dont think they are trading any more)shell and the current hull is by Lambon Boats. We are pleased with the speed, price, quality and flexibilty of Lambon(they built what we wanted not the take it or leave attitude some builders have).

 

It would do no harm to ask Lambon for a quote and Barnowl will probably do a fitout to the level you want. Have a look at our blog and decide for yourself.

 

http://nbyarwood.blogspot.com/

Edited November 20, 2011 by Yarwood

[robdalej]

In my opinion its always better to go for a recognised shell as if ever you want to sell the boat a good name always seems to sell quicker, the boat moored next to us is a new Simon Piper shell that has just been fitted out, nice shell and a reasonable price

[sheriff]

When buying my sailaway I did lots of research, visited loads of builders and knew just what I wanted(or at least thought I did, that proved illusiory). I eventually bought from David Millar Marine who I contacted through Middlewhich Narrowboats. Very happy with the shell and unlike many builders at the cheaper end, he was prepared to build what I wanted, not what they always do. As others have said I would not get lined as you don't know what's behind the linings, and it is also much cheaper to do it yourself, and not that difficult a task provided you are confidant about wiring. I did get it battened and spray foamed, as this was cheaper as part of the build than getting it done later - and in that first cold winter was very glad of it.

[/quot

 

I went round a lot of boat builders and ended up at middlewich narrowboats the hire boat firm(don't ask me to comment on that outfit)I did however through them eventually buy a shell from David at David Millar Marine also..in windsford...I met him for five minutes,told him what I wanted and not what everbody else has..went into the office,and onwards...ended up with battern and spray foamed.......went on a wireing course and read tons of stuff etc etc.

 

I learned a lot,had loads of time on my hand ...and mistakes taught me lessons...the shell was late...but ha ho the canal is not a place if your in a rush...and I needed to learn to slow down.......of course now I am considering a widebeam.

[Spacebar]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes Colecraft look like a good option or Piper.

I dont want it lined just sprayfoamed plus having it lined just seems to add daft amounts of money to the cost of a sailaway.

I will need to go and do some learning on the wiring or pay someone to do any technical stuff while I do the donkey work.

IM not going for an all singing and dancing fancy fitout just a miminal look with simple electrics with a straight through galley.

I have looked at second hand boats and after having a couple of old boats I just cant be bothered undoing things to redo them.

I want a clean start so I know whatever progress I make is progress no matter how slow.

30k spent on a secondhand boat dont seem to throw up anything I would want to buy.

This is going to be my home so I may as well just get a new shell and engine.

Thanks again.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Spacebar

[Doorman]

We bought a second hand boat for £20K from a disreputable broker (our fault for believing his bullsh*t). We wanted to get on the canals soon after my wife had suffered a serious illness, so we thought this was the best option.

 

Ironically, soon after buying the boat, we embarked on making little changes to our liking which suddenly escalated into a full refit. It took us 18 months to do whilst still living aboard and although we thoroughly enjoyed the transition, on reflection, it would have been more fruitful to have bought a Sailaway hull and fit it out from scratch.

 

As a consequence, we conviced our friend who was in the market for a second hand boat, to buy a Sailaway hull from Cheshire Boats who are based on the Bridgewater Canal in Lymm. His initial outlay is cheaper than the ceiling price he intended to pay for a used boat and for his money he gets a brand new shell, engine & gearbox etc., together with the fact that the layout will be to his own design.

 

The boats he had looked at previously, required an awful lot of money to bring them up to scratch and even after that outlay, he would have still ended up with a hull that was in excess of 20 years old.

 

For him, it was the ideal option than to buy second hand.

 

Mike

Edited November 20, 2011 by Doorman

[Gazboatman]

We bought a second hand boat for £20K from a disreputable broker (our fault for believing his bullsh*t). We wanted to get on the canals soon after my wife had suffered a serious illness, so we thought this was the best option.

 

Ironically, soon after buying the boat, we embarked on making little changes to our liking which suddenly escalated into a full refit. It took us 18 months to do whilst still living aboard and although we thoroughly enjoyed the transition, on reflection, it would have been more fruitful to have bought a Sailaway hull and fit it out from scratch.

 

As a consequence, we conviced our friend who was in the market for a second hand boat, to buy a Sailaway hull from Cheshire Boats who are based on the Bridgewater Canal in Lymm. His initial outlay is cheaper than the ceiling price he intended to pay for a used boat and for his money he gets a brand new shell, engine & gearbox etc., together with the fact that the layout will be to his own design.

 

The boats he h

 

 

ad looked at previously, required an awful lot of money to bring them up to scratch and even after that outlay, he would have still ended up with a hull that was in excess of 20 years old.

 

For him, it was the ideal option than to buy second hand.

 

Mike

That is what I have done bought a 50 ft narrow boat to gut and completely refit.

 

What would I be looking at pricewise for a brand new 50ft sailaway?

 

(Roughly)

 

ETA Nevermind just googled my question and I would be looking around the £30k mark.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Gazboatman

[Doorman]

 

What would I be looking at pricewise for a brand new 50ft sailaway?

(Roughly)

 

Hi, £23K from Cheshire Narrow Boats.

 

Their boats are obviously for the budget market, but having seen some of the examples, they appear to be good value for money.

 

The choice of boatbuilder would depend on several factors, of which you, the customer, should carefully determine.

 

Good luck,

 

Mike

Edited November 20, 2011 by Doorman

[Dr Bradley]

I looked at second hand, but if what you require means gutting and starting again, a second hand boat will be more work, cost more and have less resail value than a sailaway.