the pros and cons of a tug deck –v- well deck design?

[Guest]

Our well deck with cover serves a useful area but I must admit I do get a bit irritated by the low headroom and the feeling I'm constantly 'bending and stooping' when in there.

[sociable_hermit]

I am a fan of well decks and cratches for liveaboards and here is why:

 

I don't like the limited headroom under tug decks. Much as I love the "snugness" of my boat, there's a fine line between that and claustrophobia.

 

The topside of the deck can get slippery and of course has no hand-holds if you should slip. (I know the gunnels get slippery but at least you have a chance of hanging on).

 

My boat has the living room towards the bows and bedroom at the stern. The cratch acts as a useful intermediate space between the outside world and the saloon, like a porch.

 

The cratch is also useful for storing things that shouldn't be inside but at the same time shouldn't really be out in all weathers either, e.g. bicycles, kindling.

 

If your boat is the other way around (living room at the stern) then I'd similarly recommend a cruiser stern with a "pram hood" as the easiest way of getting a space to take off muddy boots etc. before going inside. Aesthetically they're rubbish but in practical terms very useful indeed.

[tree]

Whenever I've sat in a well deck I've always felt I should be wearing the giant slipper, have a blanket on my lap and be reading a copy of 'People's Friend'.

 

Yikes!! flipping nora, carlt must have seen me in my welldeck lol , opps!! yer forgot the knitting needles hahahah

to be honest I would have loved to have bought a 'tug' instead of my cruiser-style n/b, but I have pets and I like the extra outdoor space I get, especially when it is raining and I am sat all cosy in the welldeck with the cratch cover doing my knitting lol.

Mind you if ever I win the con , opps lottery then I will get myself a 'tug' just so that I can park classic motorbike&sidecar on it

 

I am a fan of well decks and cratches for liveaboards and here is why:

 

I don't like the limited headroom under tug decks. Much as I love the "snugness" of my boat, there's a fine line between that and claustrophobia.

 

The topside of the deck can get slippery and of course has no hand-holds if you should slip. (I know the gunnels get slippery but at least you have a chance of hanging on).

 

My boat has the living room towards the bows and bedroom at the stern. The cratch acts as a useful intermediate space between the outside world and the saloon, like a porch.

 

The cratch is also useful for storing things that shouldn't be inside but at the same time shouldn't really be out in all weathers either, e.g. bicycles, kindling.

 

If your boat is the other way around (living room at the stern) then I'd similarly recommend a cruiser stern with a "pram hood" as the easiest way of getting a space to take off muddy boots etc. before going inside. Aesthetically they're rubbish but in practical terms very useful indeed.

 

I quite agree with all the above points made in this post. As a future liveaboard my reason for a front cratch cover and a rear pramcover on my boat is purely for 'liveaboard storage space' and a place for my dog fred to chill out as well as a cosy retreat for me from fred lol

[carlt]

I quite agree with all the above points made in this post. As a future liveaboard my reason for a front cratch cover and a rear pramcover on my boat is purely for 'liveaboard storage space'

That's what I mean about well deck 'pros' being well deck 'cons' to me.

 

I'd much rather hide my tat under the front deck or in the engine room than fall over it whilst fighting my way in through the fore or aft tent.

[sueb]

Just make sure the gunnells are high enough. We spent a summer cruising with a tug style boat and they had to moor outside of us or get their paint damaged on various overhangs.

Sue

[ditchcrawler]

To be honest I hadn’t really given them much thought, as my initial thinking had been to maximise living space.

I do like the look of them but thought that whilst they would be great on a boat used for weekend leisure, they would be ‘wasted’ space on a live on board.

 

I am beginning to see differently.

 

First I need to convince myself then I will worry about how to sell it to my partner who has ‘generously’, given me Carte blanche over the design of the boat so long as it complies with everything she wants!

 

I have read the thread suggested by jonky and putting aside aesthetics which are subjective, the two most often repeated pros seem to be, easy access and good storage, both of which I can appreciate.

 

However, I have always assumed the well deck was a partly protected and therefore comfortable area to socialise al fresco with partner and friends.

 

Are they actually often used like this in practice?

 

Can the exposed and raised tug deck, just as comfortably be so used and are they in practice?

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Joshua

I think you only have to watch the other half reaching out of the cratch round to the bow stud to get hold of a rope for mooring and then ether try to step out from under the cratch onto the bank or balance on the gunwale with rope in one hand and nothing to hold onto ready to step ashore. O and don't mention dragging a gas cylinder out.

Edited November 6, 2011 by ditchcrawler

[wrigglefingers]

Just one thing to be aware of with the coming winter - a large flat metal expanse as in a modern tug deck can get very slippery in the frost and ice. Probably not a deal breaker but something to factor in.

 

I remember 'skating' on Wriggly's at the Audlem banter last November. Nice if you want to practice your 'Bolero' but something to be aware and careful of.

 

In fairness it was about minus 8 deg C at the time.

 

I've tripped on the edge of my neighbour's gunnels and fallen in their welldeck and tripped on the moorings dollies on their stern more than a few times this year without the aid of ice which suggests two things; one I'm a bit careless and two, having a hand for the boat is important and saves worse accidents.

[Guest]

In fairness it was about minus 8 deg C at the time.

 

Twas bleedin' freezing you are right, I considered donning my best Robin Cousons tights at the time but didn't think it appropriate for bantering....

 

 

PS - is it really a year ago???

[BlueStringPudding]

I use my well deck as a social area and a place to eat on a nice day and it's ideal for storage. I also feel less likely to fall in the water than on a tug deck that has no "wall" round it. Also safer for kids and dogs and nervous mums! Tugs look pretty though

[Guest wanted]

http://www.inquisitr.com/80513/flowchart-appropriate-use-of-comic-sans/

[carlt]

http://www.inquisitr.com/80513/flowchart-appropriate-use-of-comic-sans/

Excellent!

[blackrose]

Just make sure the gunnells are high enough. We spent a summer cruising with a tug style boat and they had to moor outside of us or get their paint damaged on various overhangs.

Sue

 

On that point, one downside of some narrowboats with tug decks is that they sometimes tend to have a very low freeboard. Fine for the canals but I wouldn't want to venture onto tidal rivers with some of them. I'm not sure if this is just a characteristic typical of tug decks where the builder also incorporated bow doors? I suppose if there are no bow doors then the low freeboard isn't a problem, but it does look odd to me. I guess some people want their narrowboats to look like they are still loaded up & carrying goods or something?

 

Just wondered... If the owner of a modern narrrowboat with a well deck decided to do away with the bow doors, what would it take to convert it to a tug deck? And what would the result look like?

Edited November 7, 2011 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

I suppose if there are no bow doors then the low freeboard isn't a problem, but it does look odd to me. I guess some people want their narrowboats to look like they are still loaded up & carrying goods or something?

Probably far more likely that they are trying to emulate the look of some of the tugs, typically on the BCN, that were built that way, but were never intended as carrying boats themselves.

 

 

 

A boarded over hold, (unless a tar boat), would seldom have been carrying cargo, so you would need to be misguided to have the low freeboard on a tug for that reason.

 

Just wondered... If the owner of a modern narrrowboat with a well deck decided to do away with the bow doors, what would it take to convert it to a tug deck? And what would the result look like?

 

I would say that you couldn't just convert any modern "trad style" boat to "tug style trad" by the expedient of decking over the front well, and necessarily achieve something that gives too much homage to some genuine tugs.

 

Whilst I'm happy with "bus windows" in our leisure boat, for example, these really don't sit well on something trying to emulate something like a tug.

 

But the bigger issue, in my view, is to do with how far forward the cabin comes. We were seriously looking, before we bought Sickle, at purchasing a former carrying boat, cut years ago to make a BW hire cruiser, and now just a hull with a new back end on, and having it turned out "tug style", with living accommodation forward of traditional engine room and back cabin arrangements. The resulting boat would have been just under 50 feet.

 

We were persuaded, looking at similar boats, that the actual tug deck portion, (not including the 5' 6" bow deck it already had), needed to be an absolute minimum of 7 feet, and ideally more like 9 feet, if the resulting boat were to have the right "tug" feel. In the end we did not proceed for other reasons, but IMO to look right, you can't scrimp on the length.

 

Very few modern leisure boats have an open front well as long as 8 or 9 feet that could be decked over, (although clearly some do!).

 

Here is quite a famous boat, (Terry Darlington's "Phyllis May"), that was badly damaged in a major fire involving several boats. As it has had to have a large part of its buckled cabin replaced, the yard doing the work decided to convert it it "tug style" at the same time. We were directed to look at this as an example of about the shortest tug deck that still cuts the mustard.

 

Obviously these things are very much personal taste, but I reckon this one is about that case, and I'd personally not appreciate the look of a typical modern boat with a much shorter one.

 

Edited November 7, 2011 by alan_fincher

[jonk]

If you go for a well deck I would advise having an opening front cratch - hinged or flap - so that removing gas cylinders (if they are in the forward hold) can be done safely (mine hasn't!). I would actually like to move the gas to the rear and use the gas hold for other purposes - possibly a 'coal hole' with a low door into the well.

Also have two front mooring ropes attached to the front T so that the crew can stand in the well, or on the side, with handholds while waiting to get off for mooring etc. - much safer and easier than balancing on the front!

 

John

[alan_fincher]

If you go for a well deck I would advise having an opening front cratch..........

Or just have a well deck, but omit any attempt at a deck board, ("cratch"), or canopy.

 

They are not mandatory, of course, and if you don't need the extra covered space, there is much to be said for an unencumbered open area.

 

But, as Mike, ("Blackrose"), said......

 

I guess some people want their narrowboats to look like they are still loaded up & carrying goods or something?

 

Surely that statement is actually more true of a boat that is not "tug-style", but has a deck board, and replicates to some extent the cratch and cloths of a loaded working boat ?

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Never mind about the front end, you also need a tug style back end.

 

Leo

 

 

 

ATB

 

Leo

 

PS Interesting to see how well the rudder is protected without the use of too many fenders.

Edited November 7, 2011 by LEO

[jonk]

Or just have a well deck, but omit any attempt at a deck board, ("cratch"), or canopy.

 

They are not mandatory, of course, and if you don't need the extra covered space, there is much to be said for an unencumbered open area.

 

 

 

Yes - I have debated about removing the cratch cover and deck board but have left it as is it is for the time being. Mainly since it can be useful for people sitting in the well deck while being protected from rain or sun. It does get in the way sometimes though.

 

John

 

Hi,

 

Never mind about the front end, you also need a tug style back end.

 

Leo

 

 

 

ATB

 

Leo

 

PS Interesting to see how well the rudder is protected without the use of too many fenders.

 

Would that be classified as a cruiser or trad stern I wonder?

 

John

[BlueStringPudding]

 

Just wondered... If the owner of a modern narrrowboat with a well deck decided to do away with the bow doors, what would it take to convert it to a tug deck? And what would the result look like?

 

1. A sheet of ply

 

2. Shite

 

Or just have a well deck, but omit any attempt at a deck board, ("cratch"), or canopy.

 

 

No cratch board or canopy on mine. It'd get in the way of using the front door comfortably and would ruin my nice view of the water from the bow deck

[LEO]

ame='alan_fincher' timestamp='1320691333' post='775572']

 

Would that be classified as a cruiser or trad stern I wonder?

 

John

 

Oh Lord, now you have started something - you would need a mighty long tiller bar to steer standing in the hatches though.

 

On reflection it could be described as an early semi trad?

 

Leo.

[alan_fincher]

Would that be classified as a cruiser or trad stern I wonder?

 

John

The engine is surely in the cabin, not under the deck.

 

It must be what Ledgard Bridge used to market as a "Modified Trad" !

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

Mike, ("Leo"), is being far too modest by not putting his own modern tug style boat "Albion Mills" up for scrutiny, in my view.

 

Personally I think it is one of the nicest, best proportioned of the modern boats on the circuit, with none of the "added bling" that starts to make them look a trifle OTT.

 

I don't think I have a photo of it in its stunning new paint scheme, but here's a picture of that super littlt tug before its recent repaint.

 

Edited November 7, 2011 by alan_fincher

[blackrose]

 

 

 

I wouldn't fancy standing on the deck of Stewarts & Lloyds on a tidal river. It's only about a foot off the waterline! If you got hit by some of the waves on the Thames I've been through you might get swept off the deck.

 

Strictly for non-tidal use I guess.

[alan_fincher]

I wouldn't fancy standing on the deck of Stewarts & Lloyds on a tidal river. It's only about a foot off the waterline! If you got hit by some of the waves on the Thames I've been through you might get swept off the deck.

 

Strictly for non-tidal use I guess.

Bittell and Pacific are steered from within the hatch Mike, as they have a long tiller bar, and that's where the speed and gear control are. you wouldn't stand on the back deck if just progressing along.

 

They would probably be fine on the Tidal Thames, although clearly that was not waht they were designed for!

 

I would actually have greater concerns over Sickle, tbh, even though she has relatively deep sides.

 

The 18 foot, (approx) of decking is just boards over the hold, with no attempts at waterproofing. Most of the rain that lands on it goes straight through the gaps, and fills up the hold.

 

The same would likely happen with waves breaking over the bow.

 

I'm by no means sure how much would come over, but currently she is deliberately well ballasted down, so perhaps quite a bit, I really don't know ? We found far more "swell" on the Thames the second time we did it, (Chalice, not Sickle), so as you of course know, you can't really predict how rough a ride you are in for.

 

I think if tempted to try it in Sickle, I'd probably try and cover the boards with a tarpaulin, so most "spray" ended back in the river, not sinking the boat!

 

I think most modern tug replicas will be fine, even if the cabin has front doors, provided they are kept shut. In the same way as modern well decks are designed to be self draining, so are modern tug decks.

 

To make Sickle's deck and hold watertight would destroy much of her history, although after a winter or two pumping her out, I suspect I'll be looking at ways to limit the speed that rain and snow fill up the hold!

[LEO]

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

Mike, ("Leo"), is being far too modest by not putting his own modern tug style boat "Albion Mills" up for scrutiny, in my view.

 

 

Alan,

 

You say the nicest things.....you'll get me blushing soon...

 

Albion Mills was built by Tony Francis, and I understand was one of the first boats up a restored section of the Chesterfield canal, (any information about this gratefully received).

 

Tony Francis built 2 boats of this size (48ft) and style, the other nb. Blakeny was sold through Crick marina about 5 years ago. This has the tug front deck 'clothed up' and if the owner is a Forum member perhaps he would contact me, or a picture would be helpful. I think Blakeny was Listered powered.

 

Leo.

[Athy]

I met the owner a few years ago and said that his boat looked somehow familiar. He replied that it had been in the boatimags when it was the first boat along a new section of the Chesterfield Canal, yes. I assume that was not you, then.

[Batavia]

I wouldn't fancy standing on the deck of Stewarts & Lloyds on a tidal river. It's only about a foot off the waterline! If you got hit by some of the waves on the Thames I've been through you might get swept off the deck.

 

Strictly for non-tidal use I guess.

I have been thinking about fitting "stop planks" to the side and rear doors on Batavia (which is based loosely on Pacific), when on lumpy rivers

 

As Alan says, at least when steering from inside the hatches one is unlikely to get swept off the deck, which is only about 10" above the water (although this will be increasing to 12" shortly, once we can work out how to remove some of the ballast, in the light of recent docking problems).

 

Chris G