Winter moorings

[NigelJ]

Anyone else noticed that 2011/12 BW winter mooring prices are higher, in some instances at least, than BW longterm or permanent moorings? How can they justify commandeering a stretch of unmanaged towpath (free for up to 14 days April-October) to charge above the going rate?

 

One of my local examples for my 70ft narrowboat: Higher Poynton (Macclesfield Canal): Current Price 1/4/2011 - 31/3/2012, on hard-standing towpath, with mooring rings, opposite Lord Vernon's Wharf at Bridge 15 : £1947 per year.

 

Higher Poynton, other side (south) of Bridge 15 : grassy towpath - very muddy through much of winter - with rings or cleats (BW says but I've not seen them there): £973 November 2011 - March 2012 (5 months) ... 12-month equivalent pro rata = £2336 per year. Or £392 more than the longterm moorings (see above).

 

Do they think (1) we won't notice or (2) we're idiots?

 

Or do you think it's fair, reasonable, justifiable, etc, etc?

 

I'm waiting for a reply from BW. I'll let you know.

Edited September 7, 2011 by NigelJ

[GUMPY]

Anything bought short term is more expensive pro rata than long term

Try insuring a car for 6 months its way more then 12

Edited September 7, 2011 by idleness

[David Mack]

Anything bought short term is more expensive pro rata than long term

Try insuring a car for 6 months its way more then 12

 

Also, in general winter is when you're staying put and using the mooring full time (otherwise why would you be buying a winter mooring), whereas in the summer months most boats will be out for some of the time. So on the baisis of actual use there may not be much difference.

 

David

[Yellowback]

Maybe it's based on next years long term price.

[Dovetail]

Anyone else noticed that 2011/12 BW winter mooring prices are higher, in some instances at least, than BW longterm or permanent moorings? How can they justify commandeering a stretch of unmanaged towpath (free for up to 14 days April-October) to charge above the going rate?

 

One of my local examples for my 70ft narrowboat: Higher Poynton (Macclesfield Canal): Current Price 1/4/2011 - 31/3/2012, on hard-standing towpath, with mooring rings, opposite Lord Vernon's Wharf at Bridge 15 : £1947 per year.

 

Higher Poynton, other side (south) of Bridge 15 : grassy towpath - very muddy through much of winter - with rings or cleats (BW says but I've not seen them there): £973 November 2011 - March 2012 (5 months) ... 12-month equivalent pro rata = £2336 per year. Or £392 more than the longterm moorings (see above).

 

Do they think (1) we won't notice or (2) we're idiots?

 

Or do you think it's fair, reasonable, justifiable, etc, etc?

 

I'm waiting for a reply from BW. I'll let you know.

 

 

They just may agree with you and put yours up lol

[debbifiggy]

Anyone else noticed that 2011/12 BW winter mooring prices are higher, in some instances at least, than BW longterm or permanent moorings? How can they justify commandeering a stretch of unmanaged towpath (free for up to 14 days April-October) to charge above the going rate?

 

One of my local examples for my 70ft narrowboat: Higher Poynton (Macclesfield Canal): Current Price 1/4/2011 - 31/3/2012, on hard-standing towpath, with mooring rings, opposite Lord Vernon's Wharf at Bridge 15 : £1947 per year.

 

Higher Poynton, other side (south) of Bridge 15 : grassy towpath - very muddy through much of winter - with rings or cleats (BW says but I've not seen them there): £973 November 2011 - March 2012 (5 months) ... 12-month equivalent pro rata = £2336 per year. Or £392 more than the longterm moorings (see above).

 

Do they think (1) we won't notice or (2) we're idiots?

 

Or do you think it's fair, reasonable, justifiable, etc, etc?

 

I'm waiting for a reply from BW. I'll let you know.

 

 

I think you'll find that the prices are based on the short term mooring fee rate. Instead of dividing the annual fee by 12 months per metre per year (prorata) try dividing by 10 (as in the BW mooring terms and conditions available on the website) and I think you'll find the reason for the difference in price.

 

HTH

 

Debbi

[mickspangle]

They never used to be though. I noticed the increase last year too. I'm pretty sure when i used to take winter moorings on the GU souh about 7-8 years ago they were the same price as the long term moorings £/m. Obviously BW think that despite the lack of take up in some areas they're still too cheap.

[Ange]

We looked into winter mooring last year, but after discovering how much BW wanted and what we were getting in return decided to take our chances and keep on moving every 14 days.

 

No matter how you justify the cost if the customers aren't prepared to pay that money then maybe a rethink is needed?

[Proud Salopian]

Crikey, if they're charging that much for a winter moorning, at what is an ordinary 14-day 'grass' mooring place, why bother? Are there any better/cheaper private (ie non-BW) winter mooring offers?

Edited September 7, 2011 by Proud Salopian

[matty40s]

Crikey, if they're charging that much for a winter moorning, at what is an ordinary 14-day 'grass' mooring place, why bother? Are there any better/cheaper private (ie non-BW) winter mooring offers?

 

lots, it's cheaper to take a few months in a marina in many cases than stay on an un-serviced towpath with no security. However,some people still stump up the money , so BW will still charge it. I kept moving where possible last winter as the prices in London were , frankly, astonishing!!!

[cotswoldsman]

Also, in general winter is when you're staying put and using the mooring full time (otherwise why would you be buying a winter mooring), whereas in the summer months most boats will be out for some of the time. So on the baisis of actual use there may not be much difference.

 

David

 

 

Sorry David you have completely lost me on your reasoning here. Are you saying that boaters on Long Term Moorings that never move further than the water point should pay more than those that cruise for a few weeks a year?

Back to the OP it was the same last year and I managed to find a Private Mooring far cheaper on non towpath side. I guess what BW are saying is just keep moving every 14 days we do not need the income!!

 

 

[14skipper]

Have been touring marinas last few weeks,several have said that their applications for winter moorings are up this year.

Maybe be a knock on affect from last winter.

14Skipper

[dor]

Why don't you just moor up on the 48hr visitor moorings in Nantwich? Judging by the present incumbents you can moor there as long as you like as long as you shuffle up the cut a few hundred yards about once a month.

[jelunga]

Many Marinas offer winter moorings especially if they are struggling to fill their full time spaces. Choose one with good facilites like a bar or restaurant.

Look especially at BWML they have around 20 marinas around and if Sawley is anything to go by, they are well maintained.

 

Crikey, if they're charging that much for a winter moorning, at what is an ordinary 14-day 'grass' mooring place, why bother? Are there any better/cheaper private (ie non-BW) winter mooring offers?

[cotswoldsman]

Why don't you just moor up on the 48hr visitor moorings in Nantwich? Judging by the present incumbents you can moor there as long as you like as long as you shuffle up the cut a few hundred yards about once a month.

 

On my way!! I was going to do the first part of the winter on the Shroppie and that sounds ideal...........as I like Nantwich

[mrsmelly]

Anyone else noticed that 2011/12 BW winter mooring prices are higher, in some instances at least, than BW longterm or permanent moorings? How can they justify commandeering a stretch of unmanaged towpath (free for up to 14 days April-October) to charge above the going rate?

 

One of my local examples for my 70ft narrowboat: Higher Poynton (Macclesfield Canal): Current Price 1/4/2011 - 31/3/2012, on hard-standing towpath, with mooring rings, opposite Lord Vernon's Wharf at Bridge 15 : £1947 per year.

 

Higher Poynton, other side (south) of Bridge 15 : grassy towpath - very muddy through much of winter - with rings or cleats (BW says but I've not seen them there): £973 November 2011 - March 2012 (5 months) ... 12-month equivalent pro rata = £2336 per year. Or £392 more than the longterm moorings (see above).

 

Do they think (1) we won't notice or (2) we're idiots?

 

Or do you think it's fair, reasonable, justifiable, etc, etc?

 

I'm waiting for a reply from BW. I'll let you know.

 

Hi

 

This is probably linked in some way to the already totaly unfair recent method of Ebay bidding for long term moorings. It is completely wrong and worked fairly before when it was priced not auctioned. As a for instance I recently bid on and won as they stupidly call it a very nice spot at Woodlesford. A few days after my arrival I was approached by another moorer on the same bit who had moored here for 3 years and he is paying very nearly precisely DOUBLE what I am paying for exactly the same size mooring 60 x 14. Now this may be great for me but it is total Ollocks and needs addressing.

[cotswoldsman]

Hi

 

This is probably linked in some way to the already totaly unfair recent method of Ebay bidding for long term moorings. It is completely wrong and worked fairly before when it was priced not auctioned. As a for instance I recently bid on and won as they stupidly call it a very nice spot at Woodlesford. A few days after my arrival I was approached by another moorer on the same bit who had moored here for 3 years and he is paying very nearly precisely DOUBLE what I am paying for exactly the same size mooring 60 x 14. Now this may be great for me but it is total Ollocks and needs addressing.

 

That is why a lot of boaters are biding on moorings on there present mooring sites getting them cheaper and then giving notice on mooring but not having to move. (does that make sense?)

[alan_fincher]

Hi

 

This is probably linked in some way to the already totaly unfair recent method of Ebay bidding for long term moorings. It is completely wrong and worked fairly before when it was priced not auctioned. As a for instance I recently bid on and won as they stupidly call it a very nice spot at Woodlesford. A few days after my arrival I was approached by another moorer on the same bit who had moored here for 3 years and he is paying very nearly precisely DOUBLE what I am paying for exactly the same size mooring 60 x 14. Now this may be great for me but it is total Ollocks and needs addressing.

 

[Rant_mode_on]

 

Have to say I agree with you.

 

In my view, far from "establishing the market rate" at a BW moorings site, the system (for permanent moorings) establishes only what someone is prepared (or increasingly regularly not prepared) to pay on the day. I can evidence that, as I track what has happened over time on the Grand Union auctions, and you can find that at the same location one minute they can't sell a mooring, even at the minimum 75% reserve of what existing moorers pay, then occasionally on a subsequent auction a couple of people will go mad and force a price through the roof. (A basic towpath mooring at Uxbridge, not even full length has just sold for £3,662 pa, when guide price was £1625, so it has gone for two and a quarter times guide.)

 

I have just won a mooring that had failed to let in two recent attempts to auction it, (no bids), and was hopeful of getting it at reserve, but found myself in a last minute bidding war that pushed the price up. (Admittedly it is still not a bad deal).

 

Mind you the new auctions system (open bids) is considerably better than the old tender system (sealed bids) they trialled for a while. Our current mooring was won on that basis, (but only after someone else who bid higher defaulted on it), and has cost us an arm and a leg compared to what existing moorers pay. Since then others have won longer moorings at the same site for far less money.

 

The bonkers bit is, that as far as I understand it, when you get to the end of your three year contract, if you want to stay, and they will let you, they intend to revert you to the rate that those who did not get their mooring either by auction or tender are still paying.

 

So WTF was the point, and what have they proved, other than that someone will occasionally be prepared to pay an insane amount for a basic mooring, but that most of the time they can't get as much revenue from them as they would have done, if they had left the arrangements alone.

 

And that ignores what the system must have cost to develop, trial, modify, and all the problems associated with it, and extra administration it must have caused.

 

[Rant_mode_off]

 

Good grief MrSmelly and me in total agreement, without even mentioning toilets!

[dor]

So WTF was the point, and what have they proved, other than that someone will occasionally be prepared to pay an insane amount for a basic mooring, but that most of the time they can't get as much revenue from them as they would have done, if they had left the arrangements alone.

 

I suspect that BW hoped that demand for their moorings would push the price up.

 

The reality is that, with a few notable exceptions, most moorings go for well below the original fixed price, if at all.

My BW mooring used to be full, but there are now three vacancies that have been there for over a year and the last mooring to go by auction went for the minimum reserve.

 

As people seem to be able to bridge-hop with impunity these days, I do wonder why anyone bothers with a BW towpath mooring.

[mrsmelly]

That is why a lot of boaters are biding on moorings on there present mooring sites getting them cheaper and then giving notice on mooring but not having to move. (does that make sense?)

 

Err just !!

 

 

[Rant_mode_on]

 

Have to say I agree with you.

 

In my view, far from "establishing the market rate" at a BW moorings site, the system (for permanent moorings) establishes only what someone is prepared (or increasingly regularly not prepared) to pay on the day. I can evidence that, as I track what has happened over time on the Grand Union auctions, and you can find that at the same location one minute they can't sell a mooring, even at the minimum 75% reserve of what existing moorers pay, then occasionally on a subsequent auction a couple of people will go mad and force a price through the roof. (A basic towpath mooring at Uxbridge, not even full length has just sold for £3,662 pa, when guide price was £1625, so it has gone for two and a quarter times guide.)

 

I have just won a mooring that had failed to let in two recent attempts to auction it, (no bids), and was hopeful of getting it at reserve, but found myself in a last minute bidding war that pushed the price up. (Admittedly it is still not a bad deal).

 

Mind you the new auctions system (open bids) is considerably better than the old tender system (sealed bids) they trialled for a while. Our current mooring was won on that basis, (but only after someone else who bid higher defaulted on it), and has cost us an arm and a leg compared to what existing moorers pay. Since then others have won longer moorings at the same site for far less money.

 

The bonkers bit is, that as far as I understand it, when you get to the end of your three year contract, if you want to stay, and they will let you, they intend to revert you to the rate that those who did not get their mooring either by auction or tender are still paying.

 

So WTF was the point, and what have they proved, other than that someone will occasionally be prepared to pay an insane amount for a basic mooring, but that most of the time they can't get as much revenue from them as they would have done, if they had left the arrangements alone.

 

And that ignores what the system must have cost to develop, trial, modify, and all the problems associated with it, and extra administration it must have caused.

 

[Rant_mode_off]

 

Good grief MrSmelly and me in total agreement, without even mentioning toilets!

 

Steady on Alan you will get a bad name

[Proper Job]

 

..................

The bonkers bit is, that as far as I understand it, when you get to the end of your three year contract, if you want to stay, and they will let you, they intend to revert you to the rate that those who did not get their mooring either by auction or tender are still paying.

 

.................

 

My understanding is that, at the end of the term (usually 3 years) the price reverts to the average price that is charged at that particular site.

[deletedaccount]

There's one spot in bath that's so expensive for what it is (a flood prone stretch of river with no facilities, at least one lock between you and a tap) it never lets a single oen of its (at least 12 boats worth of ) winter moorings. I did point out to BW that if they halved the price people might take em up and they'd make some money, but no.

 

Just checked. They want £12.67 a metre, again LOL.

 

If they're talking market price then the market price is currently zero.

Edited September 8, 2011 by deletedaccount

[Ex- Member]

There's one spot in bath that's so expensive for what it is (a flood prone stretch of river with no facilities, at least one lock between you and a tap) it never lets a single oen of its (at least 12 boats worth of ) winter moorings. I did point out to BW that if they halved the price people might take em up and they'd make some money, but no.

 

Just checked. They want £12.67 a metre, again LOL.

 

If they're talking market price then the market price is currently zero.

 

 

 

Hi deleteaccount

 

I didn't know there were any winter moorings on the river around Bath, where are these BTW We paid for a winter mooring 4/5 years ago where the canal goes under the bridge at the bottom of Warminster Road, I recall that cost us just under £700 for our 60 f/t 10/6 widebeam. When we enquired BW said that's all that was available, we ended up near the main road though which was handy. I know the river well being a Bathonion we plan to more there next year.

[deletedaccount]

Hi deleteaccount

 

I didn't know there were any winter moorings on the river around Bath, where are these BTW We paid for a winter mooring 4/5 years ago where the canal goes under the bridge at the bottom of Warminster Road, I recall that cost us just under £700 for our 60 f/t 10/6 widebeam. When we enquired BW said that's all that was available, we ended up near the main road though which was handy. I know the river well being a Bathonion we plan to more there next year.

 

I'm talking about Broad Quay, which is the long railing sided stretch on the river. Turn left as you exit Bath flight, go past the train station and they're on the right. It's where the silver salmon trip boat moors if that's any help.

 

I think you're talking about Darlington wharf, which is a much better spot.

Edited September 8, 2011 by deletedaccount

[cotswoldsman]

I'm talking about Broad Quay, which is the long railing sided stretch on the river. Turn left as you exit Bath flight, go past the train station and they're on the right. It's where the silver salmon trip boat moors if that's any help.

 

I think you're talking about Darlington wharf, which is a much better spot.

 

Those moorings are owned by the council so that might explain the price.