More residential moorings....?

[fender]

3. Regarding this thing about letting more people live on boats.....how can it even be a viable Government proposal...the canals are such a tiny piece of the UK area...I mean you have to really zoom in on Google Earth to even find it....putting people on resedential boats is surely going to do absolutely nothing to help the homelessness statistic. I can only imagine this might be viable in very specific towns, but you could fit more people in a big block of flats than in a maria...I just dont really get the proposal?

 

It could be a cynical ploy by the Govt to provide homes on the cheap. Therefore many questions are outstanding concerning the proposals.

 

It might be quicker to house people on boats in specific areas, than to wait years for expensive land to be bought and flats to be planned and built.

 

The large increase in CC'ers (or continuous moorers!) has clearly prompted government ministers to look towards boats as a cheap and speedy solution to housing

[Yellowback]

 

 

3. Regarding this thing about letting more people live on boats.....how can it even be a viable Government proposal...the canals are such a tiny piece of the UK area...I mean you have to really zoom in on Google Earth to even find it....putting people on resedential boats is surely going to do absolutely nothing to help the homelessness statistic. I can only imagine this might be viable in very specific towns, but you could fit more people in a big block of flats than in a maria...I just dont really get the proposal?

 

 

Look beyond the canal.

 

I used the word lake for a reason, how much wasted space, from an investors point of view, is covered in water in the UK.

 

Set the principle on the canals, on or off line, and watch all large expanses of inland and estuary water real estate catch the attention of those who increasingly need to accommodate the needy for a price.

[DeanS]

 

The large increase in CC'ers (or continuous moorers!) has clearly prompted government ministers to look towards boats as a cheap and speedy solution to housing

 

You must be talking about a phenomena which doesnt exist up North. I cant believe how few boats are on the northern canals. I do expect though, that a lot of you live/cruise down south and this statement above may be true...but I haven't seen evidence of this. Also, I dont think boating is cheap. I dont think Gov depts would be willing to undertake all the boatie type maintenance/upkeep/support calls....and I dont think many landlivers would make a move to resedential boating very easily.....for example..if I asked any of my land based family members...would you like to live on water..the answer would be no. Also...many people would find a boat far too small. We are happy to accept limited space, to enjoy the boating lifestyle. I dont think someone who is offered the choice of living in a boat versus a larger land space, would be thrilled. I think they would see it as a Gov con. Student's however, might think it's rather cool We could see a rise in hippy villages afloat...and I actually think that would be quite revitalising....there seem to be too many grumpy old men on the canals.

[fender]

You must be talking about a phenomena which doesnt exist up North. I cant believe how few boats are on the northern canals. I do expect though, that a lot of you live/cruise down south and this statement above may be true...but I haven't seen evidence of this. Also, I dont think boating is cheap. I dont think Gov depts would be willing to undertake all the boatie type maintenance/upkeep/support calls....and I dont think many landlivers would make a move to resedential boating very easily.....for example..if I asked any of my land based family members...would you like to live on water..the answer would be no. Also...many people would find a boat far too small. We are happy to accept limited space, to enjoy the boating lifestyle. I dont think someone who is offered the choice of living in a boat versus a larger land space, would be thrilled. I think they would see it as a Gov con. Student's however, might think it's rather cool We could see a rise in hippy villages afloat...and I actually think that would be quite revitalising....there seem to be too many grumpy old men on the canals.

 

If you come down to London, you'll be surprised at the large number of boats in places where there were previously none. Must be well over a hundred and fifty CC'ers between Kensal Green and Old Ford.

 

This is why it is somewhat a tenacious issue and I'm sure it'll be very interesting to see how three very different philosophies (BW's, the CC'ers and the Government's) can be merged in order to provide on the waterways what the government can only deem as a useful overspill for housing people.

[Dalesman]

There is plenty of water space in Docklands ( London) with NO boats to be see as well as other parts of Britain with empty docks and river side wharfs,.In Holland you see plenty of house boats moored all over the place without any problems, so why not use some of the old docks for house boats..? Now that BW is to become a trust how can any local council or the Government demand that they allow house boats to be moored on the Trusts waterways. Not sure many local councils will want to pay the costs of building a marine and supply boats for all these poor people without homes, cheaper to buy an old cruise liner and moor it in Docklands, or better still build prefabs on brown field sites even cheeper still.

[Gollywobbler]

Mmmmmm! I suspect that Grant the Gaffe might have had another go at trying the idea that if he opens his mouth widely enough he might be able to get both feet into it at the same time.

 

Grant Shapps is the Minister for Housing and Local Government according to Wiki. (He is also one of Call Me Dave's cronies, so Wiki suggests.)

 

British Waterways is a quango that takes its orders from DEFRA. The same goes for the Environment Agency. Neither of these two quangos has anything to do with Grant Shapps and neither of them is answerable to him.

 

My impression is that Shapps doesn't know what he is talking about - as usual. If he thinks that the chronic shortage of housing can be solved by encouraging people to live on boats instead, he is dreaming - as the Local Government Association have now told him, in a direct response by the LGA to the spoutings by Shapps that were published by the Beeb and in various newspapers on 27th August 2011.

 

The LGA have told him in no uncertain terms that local councils need money to spend on the provision of Council Homes that are fit for the 21st century. Shapps and his dreams of people living on boats just will NOT cut the mustard according to the LGA. Woof, woof but I agree with the LGA, as it happens.

 

I suspect that Shapps will now quietly ditch his idiotic utterings on this subject. He's in Biiiiig Trouble, especially around London, for his ideas of trying to limit the amount that local authorities could pay out in Local Housing Allowance. I suspect he's seized on an entirely different proposal being mooted by British Waterways in the hope that the BW proposals will somehow get him out of trouble. They won't and I think the LGA are right to tell him so, quickly, the better to nip his nonsense firmly in the bud.

 

British Waterways are trying to suggest solutions to the problems of overcrowding, especially on their waterways around London.

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/listening-to-you/consultations-and-reviews/current-consultations

 

I suspect that Shapps imagines that he is helping DEFRA as well as helping himself, but he'd do a lot better to mind his own business and take his feet out of his mouth, methinks!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[PhilR]

A friend of mine has had an idea for many years. I used to think it a daft idea, but now it makes sense.....................

 

Convert shipping containers to housing modules by inserting a few windows and fitting out internally as required........... no water required to float them.

[DeanS]

A friend of mine has had an idea for many years. I used to think it a daft idea, but now it makes sense.....................

 

Convert shipping containers to housing modules by inserting a few windows and fitting out internally as required........... no water required to float them.

 

Like THIS [Suspicious link removed]

 

If you come down to London, you'll be surprised at the large number of boats in places where there were previously none. Must be well over a hundred and fifty CC'ers between Kensal Green and Old Ford.

 

This is why it is somewhat a tenacious issue and I'm sure it'll be very interesting to see how three very different philosophies (BW's, the CC'ers and the Government's) can be merged in order to provide on the waterways what the government can only deem as a useful overspill for housing people.

 

A CC-er is a person who continuously cruises. I think you mean Continuous Moorers.

Edited August 28, 2011 by NB Alnwick
Suspicious link removed

[Ally]

A friend of mine has had an idea for many years. I used to think it a daft idea, but now it makes sense.....................

 

Convert shipping containers to housing modules by inserting a few windows and fitting out internally as required........... no water required to float them.

http://uk.green.yahoo.com/blog/daily_green_news/8/twelve-amazing-shipping-container-houses.html?pg=10

[fender]

Like THIS[Suspicious link removed]

 

A CC-er is a person who continuously cruises. I think you mean Continuous Moorers.

 

That too. There are quite a few CC'ers on fairly 'extended' stop-overs if you would like to know. Would you think I'd miss a few genuine CC'ers trying to do a bit of continuous mooring?

Edited August 28, 2011 by NB Alnwick
Suspicious link (in quoted text) removed

[DeanS]

That too. There are quite a few CC'ers on fairly 'extended' stop-overs

 

They aren't CC-ers then.

[fender]

They aren't CC-ers then.

 

Why dont you go and remonstrate these boaters with a twig, like John Cleese saying, "move you vicious bastards, you're not a CC'er! I'm gonna give you a damn good thrashing!"

Edited August 28, 2011 by fender

[blackrose]

Funny how some people have to distort facts when, on the face of it, this is really good news.

 

For a long, long time there has been a shortage of residential moorings and now the government have recognised this and propose to encourage councils to provide them.

 

Nowhere do they suggest that anyone would be rehoused in boats, as suggested above, and that very idea is absurd anyway.

 

Not everyone likes boats and the very thought of living on one fills some people with horror, beleive it or not.

 

What this will do is to allow more people that like the lifestyle to do so legitimately.

Also, being unfortunate enough to lose your job and have to claim benifits will not exclude you from this chosen lifestyle, just as it wouldn't exclude you from living in a house. This isn't new btw.

 

Keith

 

What isn't really addressed in the article is the provision of facilities to residential moorers.

 

I may be wrong but I don't think changing the status of a mooring to residential (or the creation of a new residential mooring) is as simple as the council giving it that status. Certain facilities must then be provided by law to the residents such as rubbish collection, post, possibly even shower blocks if adequate facilities cannot be guaranteed to exist on the boats - possibly parking spaces too?

 

Isn't this why the local government authorities seem to be resisting the proposals?

[carlt]

I may be wrong but I don't think changing the status of a mooring to residential (or the creation of a new residential mooring) is as simple as the council giving it that status.

You are wrong.

 

"Residential status" has nothing to do with anything other than proposed use for a piece of land.

 

You can apply for, and gain, residential planning permission for a piece of land and then do nothing with that land.

 

Nothing has changed, merely its proposed use and, usually, value.

 

It is only when someone moves on and starts living there does it get complicated.

[Joshua]

Like THIS LINK CUT........

 

Dean s, my fire wall (Kaspersky) denies access to your link warning me that the site you link to, is infected with: “Trojan-cliker.js.agent.ma”

 

Apparently this does the following:

 

Infection

Once the user opens an infected web page, JavaScript checks for cookies containing the string "seen_search_pops". If such a cookie is not found, the Trojan changes the Internet Explorer start page to http://www.netster.com

 

JavaScript also causes the following pop-up to be displayed:

 

And can be used to do any or all of the following:

 

Increase the number of visits to certain sites in order to boost the number of hits for online ads

conduct a DoS (Denial of Service) attack on a particular server

Lead potential victims to viruses or Trojans

 

It might be prudent to remove it or at least check it out, before too many forum members become victim to it?

 

Joshua

[DeanS]

 

It might be prudent to remove it or at least check it out, before too many forum members become victim to it?

 

Joshua

 

Apologies. Unintentional. Mods have removed it.

 

Why dont you go and remonstrate these boaters with a twig, like John Cleese saying, "move you vicious bastards, you're not a CC'er! I'm gonna give you a damn good thrashing!"

 

It went over your head. Imagine BW are reading this forum (very possible), I'd prefer that you stick to the facts when you make comments. (being a CC-er myself). What you mean to say is that some people continuously moor, out of a marina. I pointed out that these people are NOT CC-ers. Please dont call them CC-ers. Thank you:)

[sueb]

This proposal is something RBOA have been campaining about for years.

Sue

[Chris Pink]

Mmmmmm! I suspect that Grant the Gaffe might have had another go at trying the idea that if he opens his mouth widely enough he might be able to get both feet into it at the same time.

 

Grant Shapps is the Minister for Housing and Local Government according to Wiki. (He is also one of Call Me Dave's cronies, so Wiki suggests.)

 

British Waterways is a quango that takes its orders from DEFRA. The same goes for the Environment Agency. Neither of these two quangos has anything to do with Grant Shapps and neither of them is answerable to him.

 

My impression is that Shapps doesn't know what he is talking about - as usual. If he thinks that the chronic shortage of housing can be solved by encouraging people to live on boats instead, he is dreaming - as the Local Government Association have now told him, in a direct response by the LGA to the spoutings by Shapps that were published by the Beeb and in various newspapers on 27th August 2011.

 

The LGA have told him in no uncertain terms that local councils need money to spend on the provision of Council Homes that are fit for the 21st century. Shapps and his dreams of people living on boats just will NOT cut the mustard according to the LGA. Woof, woof but I agree with the LGA, as it happens.

 

I suspect that Shapps will now quietly ditch his idiotic utterings on this subject. He's in Biiiiig Trouble, especially around London, for his ideas of trying to limit the amount that local authorities could pay out in Local Housing Allowance. I suspect he's seized on an entirely different proposal being mooted by British Waterways in the hope that the BW proposals will somehow get him out of trouble. They won't and I think the LGA are right to tell him so, quickly, the better to nip his nonsense firmly in the bud.

 

British Waterways are trying to suggest solutions to the problems of overcrowding, especially on their waterways around London.

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/listening-to-you/consultations-and-reviews/current-consultations

 

I suspect that Shapps imagines that he is helping DEFRA as well as helping himself, but he'd do a lot better to mind his own business and take his feet out of his mouth, methinks!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

The fresh air of common sense, a very good analysis

 

Like THIS [Suspicious link removed]

 

 

 

A CC-er is a person who continuously cruises. I think you mean Continuous Moorers.

 

Unlike this piece of the usual crap.

 

Familiar with this stretch of canal, know all the boats moored there?

 

Or are you just spouting ill-considered bullshit about people you know nothing about?

Edited August 28, 2011 by Chris Pink

[CV32]

 

I suspect that Shapps will now quietly ditch his idiotic utterings on this subject. He's in Biiiiig Trouble, especially around London, for his ideas of trying to limit the amount that local authorities could pay out in Local Housing Allowance.

 

I think that his attempts to limit housing benefit may be the one sensible and reasonable thing he has done this year - why should people be allowed to live in ridiculously expensive property for instance in London when the working, taxpaying population have to commute in because they cannot afford a similar property ?

[cotswoldsman]

I think that his attempts to limit housing benefit may be the one sensible and reasonable thing he has done this year - why should people be allowed to live in ridiculously expensive property for instance in London when the working, taxpaying population have to commute in because they cannot afford a similar property ?

 

Sorry CV32 can you just explain that statement are you saying people on Housing Benefit do not work and pay tax?

[Ex- Member]

I think that his attempts to limit housing benefit may be the one sensible and reasonable thing he has done this year - why should people be allowed to live in ridiculously expensive property for instance in London when the working, taxpaying population have to commute in because they cannot afford a similar property ?

 

The problem with that scenario is that people on low incomes will have nowhere to live, this would be nurses firemen dustmen cleaners bus drivers etc etc etc London would come to a halt without these thousands of low paid workers. Also for the vast majority of them, they don't necessarily live in ridiculously expensive properties, they live in properties that are ridiculously expensive to rent, that's a big difference in reality.

 

 

 

[Guest wanted]

I think that his attempts to limit housing benefit may be the one sensible and reasonable thing he has done this year - why should people be allowed to live in ridiculously expensive property for instance in London when the working, taxpaying population have to commute in because they cannot afford a similar property ?

 

 

Nearly 5 million people claim HB in this country (DWP Website) There are around 2.5 Million people unemployed (gov figs) so thats 2.5 million paying tax like you and me and probably many more that have in the past. How do you think it will help those people by making them homeless or unable to live in their communities?

 

ETA figures are from April 2011

Edited August 28, 2011 by wanted

[Yellowback]

Nearly 5 million people claim HB in this country (DWP Website) There are around 2 Million people unemployed (gov figs) so thats 3 million paying tax like you and me and probably many more that have in the past. How do you think it will help those people by making them homeless or unable to live in their communities?

 

 

A much better question would be, do you really think that after making those five million homeless, and probably many of the three million jobless, that you will actually benefit by seeing your taxes go down?

[fender]

It went over your head. Imagine BW are reading this forum (very possible), I'd prefer that you stick to the facts when you make comments. (being a CC-er myself). What you mean to say is that some people continuously moor, out of a marina. I pointed out that these people are NOT CC-ers. Please dont call them CC-ers. Thank you:)

 

Fact - I can see the canal from where I live. I know that most CC'ers do choose to stay over the limit sometimes. I'm not BW but I have a pretty good track of boaters in London. Only have to cycle down the canal track and see whos gone where, how much effort is being made to be a CC'er. I'm sure if you came to London you'd like to stay in the more delectable areas a bit longer than the rules generally specify. Understandable. End of discussion.

 

Back to Twitter, its a better jungle out there!

Edited August 28, 2011 by fender

[Guest wanted]

A much better question would be, do you really think that after making those five million homeless, and probably many of the three million jobless, that you will actually benefit by seeing your taxes go down?

Well put, thank you.