BW long term moorings

[heyjude999]

Hi,

 

I have had a good look around and cannot immediately find an answer so am sorry if I have duplicated info.

 

If you have a long term mooring not a leisure mooring, how long can you stay on your mooring without moving off your boat,

 

I have read an agreement and it does not give these specifics.

 

Thank you.

[Midnight Rider]

I've only had private marina moorings, but I guess that B.W. ones aren't much different.

 

Unless you have a residential mooring which has an address & pay Council Tax then you have a leisure mooring.

 

This will normally have a set of rules which may or may not set out how long you can stay on board.

 

There may be other rules such as no belongings on the boat roof or on the jetty.

 

Of course this is how a lot of unofficial liveaboards exist & quite happily untill they have a disagreement with the owners & find that they have no security of tenure.

[^bargee]

Here we go how thick boaters can be, the mooring is for the boat to be tied up for whatever period you pay for. As for the unofficial liveaboards issue, I prefer to call them illegal liveaboard tax dodger. :-)

[RLWP]

Wow, cool first post

 

Richard

[Guest]

Wow, cool first post

 

Richard

 

You should see his second...

[Nose Miner]

Apparently, he wants to be my friend!!! How come I always seem to attract the nutters?

[ymu]

Apparently, he wants to be my friend!!! How come I always seem to attract the nutters?

I resemble that remark.

[heyjude999]

Are you referring to bargee 'cos he sent me a slightly odd private message.

 

This forum often courts controversy and shall we say interesting debate.

 

I have seen the second post too, maybe he is a lock keeper about to get thrown out of his cottage who knows, it happened at the National Trust so they could use the houses to sell or rent as holiday lets.

 

Wow, cool first post

 

Richard

Edited June 4, 2011 by heyjude999

[Sunset Rising]

To get back to the Op's question.....

 

Most moorings have some sort of rule about living aboard that more or less equates to having to be off the boat ( or the boat off the moorings, which comes to the same thing ) for at least 4 weeks a year. This is much the same as 'holiday' caravans. These rules are sometimes ignored by all parties.

 

Some moorings also stipulate that you should have a fixed land address which implies that the boat is not your main residence.

[mrsmelly]

Here we go how thick boaters can be, the mooring is for the boat to be tied up for whatever period you pay for. As for the unofficial liveaboards issue, I prefer to call them illegal liveaboard tax dodger. :-)

 

Hi Mr bottless anonimous mouse. Just what Tax are your liveaboards on their moorings dodging ? You will find the working ones pay income tax, they all pay VAT on the cost of the mooring. tax on their fuel etc etc. Surely you are not naive enough to mean Council Tax are you ? as that is a tax levied on people living in a property which is entirely their choice to do no one has to live in a property there is no law to say so. And if you mean ccers that too is their right you can do it yourself if you wish.

[paulcatchpole]

I have read an agreement and it does not give these specifics.

 

To answer that point, you're right...

 

The national BW Standard Mooring Terms and Conditions doesn't place specifics on how long you may stay on your boat on a long term mooring.

 

On the mooring auction system, you'll see that some mooring sites have 'Site Rules' which add additional rules for that location, though there aren't that many sites with them. Check those if you're looking for specific rules and come across a site you like with them.

 

For a look at how BW plan to 'deal' with the issue of what Long Term Moorings are used for, check the 2010 Mooring Consultation document, it's on BW's website...

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/listening-to-you/consultations-and-reviews/completed-consultation-reports

 

Paper A - Mooring Policies

 

PC

[David Schweizer]

Hi Mr bottless anonimous mouse. Just what Tax are your liveaboards on their moorings dodging ? You will find the working ones pay income tax, they all pay VAT on the cost of the mooring. tax on their fuel etc etc. Surely you are not naive enough to mean Council Tax are you ? as that is a tax levied on people living in a property which is entirely their choice to do no one has to live in a property there is no law to say so. And if you mean ccers that too is their right you can do it yourself if you wish.

It appears to be a common misunderstanding that someone living on a boat is excempt from Council Tax, which is incorrect. Whilst many Local Authorities refer to "property" in their documentation, the The Council Tax Legislation actually refer to "Dwellings" without specifying what that actually means, although where domestic dwellings are concerned it is normally taken to mean any place which is the permanent residence of any person or persons.

 

Where boats are concerned many local Authorities find it difficult to apply the legislation, except where boats are moored permanently with Residential Planning Consent. Where boats are moored permanently without Residential Planning Consent, or move regularly within a confined area, most Enforcement Officers will assume that the boat is not occupied on a permanent basis and will not make further enquiries unless a complaint is submitted.

 

Boats which are permanently occupied but cruise around the system, are also legally liable for Council Tax, but the process of calculating liability and payment would be so complex and expensive, that most Local Authorities usually choose to waive the liability. Some friends of mine attempted to register for Council tax with the Authority where they spent the largest proportion of their time, but were told it was too difficult to assess and they were given authorised excemption (for that Authority).

 

I am not certain of the Legal position where a Local Authority chooses not to charge Council Tax on a permanently occupied boat, but suspect that if a subsequent case was brought against them, the Courts would probably rule that by failing to make a charge in the past, the occupiers are excempt from any past liability to pay, by default.

Edited June 4, 2011 by David Schweizer

[dor]

Wow, cool first post

 

I doubt it is his first.

 

Who do we think his other alias is?

[Caprifool]

I have also wondered what the diference between a leisure mooring and a long term mooring. So, I guess I'm just as "thick" as the OP then. Or is it just two words for the same thing?

 

Came across a BW residential mooring (not telling where) the other day, that did'nt have any council tax. BW didn't know, and acording to the local council there wasn't any. Although it was clearly stated as a residential and postboxes where mentioned.

 

Edit: Removed my own stupid missunderstanding, who was addressing who. Sorry guys..

Edited June 4, 2011 by Caprifool

[ymu]

I have also wondered what the diference between a leisure mooring and a long term mooring. So, I guess I'm just as "thick" as the OP then. (very nice welcoming guys...) Or is it just two words for the same thing?

 

Came across a BW residential mooring (not telling where) the other day, that did'nt have any council tax. BW didn't know, and acording to the local council there wasn't any. Although it was clearly stated as a residential and postboxes where mentioned.

Long-term moorings are any kind with a permit oytside winter to stop more than a fortnight.

 

They may have residential planning permission. They may have leisure only planning permission. The planning permission might not specify, which is usually the case with leisure moorings and you can wing it.

 

The councils concerned are unlikely to care as long as no one is establishing a local connection or creating a need for more street lighting or rubbish collections or incurring criminal justice costs.

[Caprifool]

The councils concerned are unlikely to care as long as no one is establishing a local connection or creating a need for more street lighting or rubbish collections or incurring criminal justice costs.

 

Thank you.

 

Could a local council also choose to not tax a residential mooring in a area if they would like to have permanent eyes and ears living there? Say, in a rough area?

Edited June 4, 2011 by Caprifool

[ymu]

Thank you.

 

Could a local council also choose to not tax a residential mooring in a area if they would like to have permanent eyes and ears living there? Say, in a rough area?

More likely I think that they don't want to create a precedent for sub band A charges. The rebanding exercise is well overdue, so they might just find it easier than trying to extract full CT and having to invest in the mooring for, eg, rubbish collection, lighting or road/lane improvements.

[Caprifool]

Thanks again. This exact kind of info can be very hard to find for an outsider.

[heyjude999]

Thank you for the link. Very interesting.

To answer that point, you're right...

 

The national BW Standard Mooring Terms and Conditions doesn't place specifics on how long you may stay on your boat on a long term mooring.

 

On the mooring auction system, you'll see that some mooring sites have 'Site Rules' which add additional rules for that location, though there aren't that many sites with them. Check those if you're looking for specific rules and come across a site you like with them.

 

For a look at how BW plan to 'deal' with the issue of what Long Term Moorings are used for, check the 2010 Mooring Consultation document, it's on BW's website...

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/listening-to-you/consultations-and-reviews/completed-consultation-reports

 

Paper A - Mooring Policies

 

PC

[Mac of Cygnet]

Are you referring to bargee 'cos he sent me a slightly odd private message.

 

 

How did he do that then? You can't use the PM system with less than 5 posts.

[Guest]

How did he do that then? You can't use the PM system with less than 5 posts.

 

 

Mmmmm good point...

[David Schweizer]

Long-term moorings are any kind with a permit oytside winter to stop more than a fortnight.

 

They may have residential planning permission. They may have leisure only planning permission. The planning permission might not specify, which is usually the case with leisure moorings and you can wing it.

The councils concerned are unlikely to care as long as no one is establishing a local connection or creating a need for more street lighting or rubbish collections or incurring criminal justice costs.

If the Planning Consent does not specify for residential use, then it does not have Residential Planning Consent. Planning rules are quite specific where Residential Consent is concerned, and the Enforcement Officer can issue a notice on anyone who occupies any dwelling which does not have Residential Planning Consent. However, if the Planning Officer is of the view that Consent would have been given had an application been submitted, they will ususally withold the notice in order that the occupant can make a retrospective applicatuion.

 

You are, nevertheless, correct in stating that people have been able to flout the regulationas, as most notices are only issued as a consequence of a complaint from either a Local Council or local residents. I had to deal with several such complaints when I was Clerk to our Local Council.

 

Your assertion that Councils are unlikely to care is somewhat ill informed. Whilst that may appear to be the case in some locations, it may be that the Planning Officer has taken the view that the situatiion is likely to be temporary and therefore not warrant the occupation of Officers time. On the Other hand some Planning Authorities will strenuously resist any attempt to establish residential moorings on the canal at certain locations, particularly if there is strong objection from Local Councils and local residents, which is what happened on the K&A some years ago when BW sought to establish residential moorings at Avoncliffe near Bradford on Avon.

Edited June 4, 2011 by David Schweizer

[heyjude999]

I have no idea, should I do something about it?

Or will someone pick up on it?

How did he do that then? You can't use the PM system with less than 5 posts.

Edited June 4, 2011 by heyjude999

[Guest]

I have no idea, should I do something about it?

Or will someone pick up on it?

 

Strange one this - I have just tried to send a test message to them and got the message back you normally get until somebody has 5 posts under their belt ie

 

The member ^bargee can not use the messaging system

[heyjude999]

This is what was sent:

 

 

^bargee

Yesterday, 02:33 PM

Chill out children of the earth, think of the benefits’ you have living the life you have as a water gypsy :captain: when did the last one of you lot every pay local community taxes Maybe you should put wheels on your boats and head back to the open road. PEACE