Last/Latest Conversion

[Richard T]

Chris used to have Skylark which I think he sold to Rupert Smedley. He may have had Otley but that must have been quite some time ago and Chris and Victoria have had it for quite a while (unless they ahev now sold it - I know they got rid of the butty). Chris now has a nice little modern tug (called Chug) usually based at Mercia.

Thanks for correcting me - I did know Chris had owned Skylark. Moon is still at Sileby and Chug is often to be found moored alongside.

Oddly I also knew the Powell- Heaths when they owned Skylark. At that point it had a full length conversion and was moored offside at Kegworth above the deeplock. The P-H's lived in a house called Wymeshead on London Road which backed onto the river. Sadly I was not interested in canals at that point so took no photos of it. Camel was the length boat based at Loughborough at that time.

[stagedamager]

 

You mean this one............... Hyades

yeah that would be the one!!

Many thanks

Dan

[Speedwheel]

Thanks for correcting me - I did know Chris had owned Skylark. Moon is still at Sileby and Chug is often to be found moored alongside.

 

He may well have owned Otley also, I don't know.

[FadeToScarlet]

Warwickshire Fly were selling a part-converted small woolwich recently. I'm really not sure that you could say when the last conversion was done, because there's several going on now, as far as I know.

[pete harrison]

He may well have owned Otley also, I don't know.

 

OTLEY was sold by Will Hewitt to Dave and Victoria in October 2001.

[kingofthecut]

What about Stafford. That must have been about 2006-2007?

 

Stafford was converted long long before going to Poland

[Proper Job]

I may be imagining this one, but hasn't Beverley, (paired with Ascot), acquired a conversion relatively recently, (i.e within last 4 years or so ?).

 

Also one of the ends of Indus ??

Or am I remembering wrong ?

 

And don't forget Dover, of course !!

Indus 2 (which I belive was the stern of the butty) was converted around 2005/06. I've got a photo of it somewhere in 2006 with a 'rusty' new steel top.

[Foxglove]

I think the conversion of small Northwich motor 'Cyprus' at Brinklow was completed in the last two years .

 

Sorry , no photos .

 

Foxglove

[koukouvagia]

I think the conversion of small Northwich motor 'Cyprus' at Brinklow was completed in the last two years .

 

Sorry , no photos .

 

Foxglove

 

 

Cyprus sharing lock with Owl.

[pete harrison]

I may be imagining this one, but hasn't Beverley, (paired with Ascot), acquired a conversion relatively recently, (i.e within last 4 years or so ?).

 

 

BEVERLEY was converted to a houseboat in the late 1980's.

[pete harrison]

I think the conversion of small Northwich motor 'Cyprus' at Brinklow was completed in the last two years .

 

Sorry , no photos .

 

Foxglove

 

The conversion of CYPRUS was well advanced by August 2006 when I saw it at Brinklow. CYPRUS was out and about by September 2006 when it attended an event at Shackerstone.

 

I appreciate that it is entirely up to a boat owner to do what they like with their boat, whether 'historic' or modern but I feel the recent development of CYPRUS is disappointing, especially when CYPRUS is one motor of only two unique pairs. When CYPRUS was acquired by its current owner it was unconverted and retained its wooden bottom, although it was fitted with a Parsons Merganser engine (Armstrong Siddley AS2 with a Parsons gearbox) - its previous National 2DM being fitted into the small Woolwich motor PLANET in the 1980's. CYPRUS has since been fitted with a steel bottom, an undercloth conversion and another National 2DM (CYPRUS was originally fitted with a Russell Newbery DM2).

 

All of this would not be quite so bad but the owner is a long standing committee member of the Historic Narrow Boat Owners Club and is a former Chairman. This is also the second 'historic' narrow boat the owner has converted, the last being sold on as soon as the conversion was completed. I am not questioning the quality of these conversions which in both cases is first class, but I do wonder whether some owners would be better suited to a modern boat (and I have told the owner of CYPRUS this to his face !!!! - and the owner does know me).

[Foxglove]

Cyprus's owner is very fond of his boats and surely would not have been so involved with HNBOC were he not passionate about historic narrowboats . He agonised for a long time over whether or not to convert Cyprus and , having decided to do it , employed some of the best people in the business to carry out the work and designed it so the conversion could be removed without damaging the original boat .

 

Not everyone will agree with what has happened to Cyprus but the owner has certainly done it with the best possible intentions .

[Chertsey]

Out of interest, what constitutes a 'conversion'? A fixed superstructure over (all or part of) the hold? Or are there other potential definitions?

[Paul H]

The conversion of CYPRUS was well advanced by August 2006 when I saw it at Brinklow. CYPRUS was out and about by September 2006 when it attended an event at Shackerstone.

 

I appreciate that it is entirely up to a boat owner to do what they like with their boat, whether 'historic' or modern but I feel the recent development of CYPRUS is disappointing, especially when CYPRUS is one motor of only two unique pairs. When CYPRUS was acquired by its current owner it was unconverted and retained its wooden bottom, although it was fitted with a Parsons Merganser engine (Armstrong Siddley AS2 with a Parsons gearbox) - its previous National 2DM being fitted into the small Woolwich motor PLANET in the 1980's. CYPRUS has since been fitted with a steel bottom, an undercloth conversion and another National 2DM (CYPRUS was originally fitted with a Russell Newbery DM2).

 

All of this would not be quite so bad but the owner is a long standing committee member of the Historic Narrow Boat Owners Club and is a former Chairman. This is also the second 'historic' narrow boat the owner has converted, the last being sold on as soon as the conversion was completed. I am not questioning the quality of these conversions which in both cases is first class, but I do wonder whether some owners would be better suited to a modern boat (and I have told the owner of CYPRUS this to his face !!!! - and the owner does know me).

 

I think you're being a little harsh Pete.

 

Lynx was "ruined" certainly from a heritage point of view many years ago when it lost its butty back end and was fitted with a counter which although visually reasonably pleasing was hardly authentic in styling for a little northwich. Incidentally I think this work was done at Holidays Afloat Ltd by Seamus Walsh.

 

Cyprus was actually first converted in the 1960s and then reverted to working boat format. Who could say that the same couldn't happen again? And as for the steel bottom, Dragon which was restored by Ian Kemp with steel bottom and cants etc. has more recently been stripped at Brinklow of all modern "improvements" and all that should be wood is now wood again.

 

What is unforgivable in my opinion is destroying historic content of an old boat - like removing the rounded chines on Spitfire or unnnecessary replacement of steel engine rooms. Most other changes are entirely reversible.

 

David has done a lot of more boating in unconverted boats than most but as time marched on (as it has for all of us) and having suffered a bout of illness, he felt the only way to prolong his historic boating was by fitting a discreet undercloth conversion. A future owner can always remove it.

 

And the best boat at last year's Braunston show was undoubtedly Steve Priest's Aquila - again with an undercloth conversion.

 

Paul

Edited January 6, 2011 by Paul H

[pete harrison]

I think you're being a little harsh Pete.

 

Lynx was "ruined" certainly from a heritage point of view many years ago when it lost its butty back end and was fitted with a counter which although visually reasonably pleasing was hardly authentic in styling for a little northwich. Incidentally I think this work was done at Holidays Afloat Ltd by Seamus Walsh.

 

Cyprus was actually first converted in the 1960s and then reverted to working boat format. Who could say that the same couldn't happen again? And as for the steel bottom, Dragon which was restored by Ian Kemp with steel bottom and cants etc. has more recently been stripped at Brinklow of all modern "improvements" and all that should be wood is now wood again.

 

What is unforgivable in my opinion is destroying historic content of an old boat - like removing the rounded chines on Spitfire or unnnecessary replacement of steel engine rooms. Most other changes are entirely reversible.

 

David has done a lot of more boating in unconverted boats than most but as time marched on (as it has for all of us) and having suffered a bout of illness, he felt the only way to prolong his historic boating was by fitting a discreet undercloth conversion. A future owner can always remove it.

 

And the best boat at last year's Braunston show was undoubtedly Steve Priest's Aquila - again with an undercloth conversion.

 

Paul

 

I am not suggesting for one moment that all 'historic' narrow boats should be unconverted, or that it is wrong to convert a narrow boat (we intended to convert BARNES when we owned it, but keep BADSEY unconverted). This is entirely the choice of the owner. I am also aware that any alterations made to a 'historic' narrow boat can be reversed if enough money is spent on it, the former British Waterways heritage boats being a good example. I have known the current owner of CYPRUS for years and fully appreciate how he feels about his boats.

 

I can confirm that CYPRUS was first converted in 1965 and de-converted in about 1979, then re-converted in 2006. LYNX was converted to a counter sterned motor in the mid 1970's (1977 ?) complete with a 6' cabin extension - the cabin becoming a full conversion in 1999. AQUILA was converted to a house boat in the mid 1960's.

 

I did think when I posted my thoughts about CYPRUS that I was expressing an opinion too far !

[grunders]

My father has asked me to post the following:

 

"Beatty was ‘re-converted’ at Brinklow in 2007. Although Beatty worked for Samuel Barlow carrying coal for 22 years, she has a much longer history as a converted boat.

 

When it became necessary to replace the timber conversion wedecided to try to retain the character of the boat; returning her to workingtrim was not considered as an option for us as we wanted a family cruising boatfor all age groups and all seasons. After carefully measuring and photographingthe old cabin, Simon Wain replaced it with a steel replica whichwas completed in the summer of 2007. The new cabin retains thedistinctive lines and style of the original 1960s conversion. The windowswere custom made to suit the unique shape of the cabin. The internalrefit also includes some of the original 1960s fittings."

 

Ben

 

 

[Paul H]

 

I can confirm that CYPRUS was first converted in 1965 and de-converted in about 1979, then re-converted in 2006. I did think when I posted my thoughts about CYPRUS that I was expressing an opinion too far !

I believe Cyprus was actually first converted in 1963/4 and attended the National Rally at Stratford in 1964. Two years later, at the Marple Rally (1966) a meeting was held on board Cyprus and the Narrow Boat Owners Club set up - this was at a time when virtually all narrow boats were "historic" so the first word in the HNBOC was superfluous. Ironically (in view of this discussion) one of the original aims of the Club was to encourage the conversion of narrow boats for pleasure!

 

Pete - I'm not saying that your feelings about converting boats aren't a reasonable stance but in my view converting a boat can be one of the least destructive alterations an owner can make, Many of the shiny working boats boats seen at Braunston and elsewhere are much more new than old despite being "unconverted" whereas there are some converted boats (e.g. the converted little woolwich Mercury) which are still very much as original. I used to own ex-steamer Marquis which although in tug format is "converted", yet there is hugely more original boat in Marquis than President. I think we should be much more interested in preserving the old and, only when absolutely necessary, replacing like with like using traditional skills than boats faked up just to "look the part." Yes this is my personal hobbyhorse!

 

Paul

[Paul H]

Out of interest, what constitutes a 'conversion'? A fixed superstructure over (all or part of) the hold? Or are there other potential definitions?

 

Sarah - I don't think there is any strict definition it is really in the eye of the beholder. The BW historic boat discount guidance (which in my opinion is deeply flawed!) suggests a 3m cabin extension or an undercloth conversion would be OK. To my eye anything over about 8ft tends to make the boat look neither one thing or the other and you might as well go the whole hog and have a full length (but removeable at sometime in the future!) conversion. Why? Is the occupant of Chertsey's tent complaining of the cold then?

[Speedwheel]

I like the pod system as Keith Ball has on Hampstead. It just drops in and can be removed at any time, or transferred to another boat if required (albeit with the help of a crane).

 

I wonder how it stands with Boat Safety? Is it still part of the boat or just something the boat is carrying?

[koukouvagia]

I like the pod system as Keith Ball has on Hampstead. It just drops in and can be removed at any time, or transferred to another boat if required (albeit with the help of a crane).

 

I wonder how it stands with Boat Safety? Is it still part of the boat or just something the boat is carrying?

 

 

When we first got Owl in 1989 it had a similar drop-in conversion. It was before the days of the BSS but I seem to remember it had a separate gas locker and a hose leading from a large water tank in the bow. For heating there was one of the old Arctic stoves.

For a long time it was on the bank at Sileby. I wonder what became of it?

[Richard T]

 

When we first got Owl in 1989 it had a similar drop-in conversion. It was before the days of the BSS but I seem to remember it had a separate gas locker and a hose leading from a large water tank in the bow. For heating there was one of the old Arctic stoves.

For a long time it was on the bank at Sileby. I wonder what became of it?

I think its still there - I've got to go and see Alex in the next couple of weeks so I'll have a look.

[pete harrison]

 

Pete - I'm not saying that your feelings about converting boats aren't a reasonable stance but in my view converting a boat can be one of the least destructive alterations an owner can make, Many of the shiny working boats boats seen at Braunston and elsewhere are much more new than old despite being "unconverted" whereas there are some converted boats (e.g. the converted little woolwich Mercury) which are still very much as original. I used to own ex-steamer Marquis which although in tug format is "converted", yet there is hugely more original boat in Marquis than President. I think we should be much more interested in preserving the old and, only when absolutely necessary, replacing like with like using traditional skills than boats faked up just to "look the part." Yes this is my personal hobbyhorse!

 

Paul

 

But I keep saying that it is up to an owner what they do with their boat - so I do not think I have a particular stance regarding whether a boat is converted or not. I was merely expressing my opinion about an individual boat (CYPRUS) because a photograph had been added to the thread showing its recent conversion.

 

As for the rest of the above paragraph I totally agree with you, and If I dare express another opinion I am no fan of the over-restored shiny working boats that you mention above. I like to see a combination of well presented boats that are boated well, and shiny paint and a Boatmaster Certificate has nothing to do with these.

 

 

When we first got Owl in 1989 it had a similar drop-in conversion. It was before the days of the BSS but I seem to remember it had a separate gas locker and a hose leading from a large water tank in the bow. For heating there was one of the old Arctic stoves.

For a long time it was on the bank at Sileby. I wonder what became of it?

 

I recall the Currell's full length F.M.C. Ltd. motor named KESTREL having a "pod" cabin back in the 1970's that looked very similar to the one above !

[pete harrison]

I believe Cyprus was actually first converted in 1963/4 and attended the National Rally at Stratford in 1964. Two years later, at the Marple Rally (1966) a meeting was held on board Cyprus and the Narrow Boat Owners Club set up - this was at a time when virtually all narrow boats were "historic" so the first word in the HNBOC was superfluous. Ironically (in view of this discussion) one of the original aims of the Club was to encourage the conversion of narrow boats for pleasure!

 

Paul

 

I stand corrected. I have just found an advert (pre 1972 ?) published in the H.N.B.O.C. NEWSLETTER 2006/4 page 23 that states that CYPRUS was converted in 1963/4. I do have a copy of the British Waterways Board tender form that includes CYPRUS but unfortunately it is undated. Other boats on this list were sold in 1963.

 

I have also found references to the N.B.O.C. original aims encouraging the conversion and cruising of narrow boats (H.N.B.O.C. NEWSLETTER 2006/3 page 14).

Edited January 9, 2011 by pete harrison

[koukouvagia]

 

I recall the Currell's full length F.M.C. Ltd. motor named KESTREL having a "pod" cabin back in the 1970's that looked very similar to the one above !

 

The present owner of Kestrel tells me that it is the same pod. No idea how or when it found its way into Owl!

[Richard T]

The pod from Owl is still at Sileby being used as a store.