Last/Latest Conversion

[koukouvagia]

The pod from Owl is still at Sileby being used as a store.

Thanks for posting that, Richard. It's been sitting there for over 20 years. It would be interesting to see Keith Ball's modern version of this on Hampstead.

[Paul H]

Thanks for posting that, Richard. It's been sitting there for over 20 years. It would be interesting to see Keith Ball's modern version of this on Hampstead.

Hampstead's is or was a drop-in steel undercloth conversion.

 

picture

 

However someone suggested the other day that it had been replaced by a more permanent cabin extension.

 

Paul

[mykaskin]

Indus 2 (which I belive was the stern of the butty) was converted around 2005/06. I've got a photo of it somewhere in 2006 with a 'rusty' new steel top.

 

I've got a video of it in Rickmansworth, 2010, doing the tug o war:

 

 

Mike

[Joseph]

Good Lord.....

 

As Bernard Bresslaw used to say, I only arsked!

 

Delighted to have provoked so many replies. In my feeble mind I assumed that conversions had ended long ago, not that they were still going on. The philosophy/ethics behind this, and indeed de-conversions, are interesting, to say the least. I am tempted to ask when was the first de-conversion, but maybe another thread for that!!

 

Many thanks, everyone

 

Joseph

[Hairy-Neil]

I am tempted to ask when was the first de-conversion,

 

Early post WW2, GUCCC 'Hesperous' was a pleasure boat belonging to Lord Lucan, father of the missing earl. It was one of the last boats to transit the K&A canal before it fell into disrepair. Hesperous was later deconverted, (not sure of the exact date, but early 1950s) and renamed 'New Hope', became Tom Foxton's motor boat. The carrying he did with her is described in his biography, No. 1.

 

Renamed Hesperous, the boat went on to belong to waterways author and historian, David Blagrove, gaining the nickname, 'No Hope', amongst friends.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Hairy-Neil

[Chertsey]

Later than HN's example, but I have been told that Chertsey was briefly converted in the sixties, although I haven't been able to stand this up. I have seen photos (courtesy of Max Sinclair in the CWF gallery) of it at Stratford in 1964 apparently not converted, and it was un/de-converted in 1969 when Richard Barnett bought it. But it could be a candidate for an early deconversion.

[1-Cylinder Wonder]

ex FMC Fern must be another on e of the most recent conversions. An awful mess. I would love to be able to buy it and gas off the conversion. Given I know how much the hull sold for I could never bring myself to pay it even if I had he money. It is an abomonation.

 

I also have to say that I disagree with the idea that it is acceptable to treat a conversion as just another episode in a boats history. So few, if any of the boats today have not been altered in some way so that they could never be returned to how they were in working days. In most other areas of preservation this type of activity is increasingly being viewed as less and less acceptable. I despair at how people involved with canals pay so little attention to the history and heritage of the not just the boats but also the architecture of the network. People are far too selective in which pieces of heritage they chose to take on board. It is not all about roses and castles, how many polished knobs in the back cabin and playing dress up at rallies!

[Liam]

From the pictures I've seen of Fern, it looks as though the back cabin drops off quite severly at an angle?

[carlt]

Hesperous was later deconverted, (not sure of the exact date, but early 1950s) and renamed 'New Hope', became Tom Foxton's motor boat. The carrying he did with her is described in his biography, No. 1.

 

Renamed Hesperous, the boat went on to belong to waterways author and historian, David Blagrove, gaining the nickname, 'No Hope', amongst friends.

Sir John Knill bought Hesperus, from Lord Lucan, renaming her "Chad" and selling her on to Tom Foxon, presumably deconverted, when he left Knill's employment.

 

Foxon renamed her, again, "New Hope".

 

I assume John Knill deconverted Hesperus but have no evidence. I'm not even sure he even worked Hesperus, as she only warrants a single sentence, in "John Knill's Navy"

[Liam]

In Tom Foxon's second book, Number 1, he writes that John Knill had purchased Hesperus but had decided to sell the boat on pretty much straight away so I guess it wasn't worked.

 

In the book it says that the boat was purchased for around £300, with the same being spent on it again to get it into a running and working condition.

[Paul H]

ex FMC Fern must be another on e of the most recent conversions. An awful mess. I would love to be able to buy it and gas off the conversion. Given I know how much the hull sold for I could never bring myself to pay it even if I had he money. It is an abomonation.

 

I also have to say that I disagree with the idea that it is acceptable to treat a conversion as just another episode in a boats history. So few, if any of the boats today have not been altered in some way so that they could never be returned to how they were in working days. In most other areas of preservation this type of activity is increasingly being viewed as less and less acceptable. I despair at how people involved with canals pay so little attention to the history and heritage of the not just the boats but also the architecture of the network. People are far too selective in which pieces of heritage they chose to take on board. It is not all about roses and castles, how many polished knobs in the back cabin and playing dress up at rallies!

I knew Fern very well in the 1970s - it was the first boat I ever steered and I spent some of my school holidays gladly being paid a pittance to paint it. But it was fully converted from end to end - at first there were even sliding bus windows in the old boatman's cabin. John rudimentarily deconverted it when he split up from his girlfriend and I believe decided to hide it at Ellesmere Port in case she staked a claim on it. For the next 20 years he virtually abandoned it and it gradually fell into dereliction. I agree that the present conversion is awful but I can't see anything was destroyed in putting it on - only the hull sides were salvageable anyway. The shame is that it is obviously worth more to someone looking for a houseboat than an enthusiast with a gas torch so whilst restoration to working boat format is perfectly feasible it would take an extravagant buyer to do it.

 

I agree with you that original construction should be saved whenever possible but, in all fairness, how many historic working boats have any original woodwork on them at all apart from perhaps cabin frames? They're getting old now and oak gunnels with iron fittings and softwood cabins don't last 75 years - in fact my cabin has just been repaired and reskinned after 25 which is considered good.

 

Paul

Edited February 8, 2011 by Paul H

[pete harrison]

 

I agree with you that original construction should be saved whenever possible but, in all fairness, how many historic working boats have any original woodwork on them at all apart from perhaps cabin frames? They're getting old now and oak gunnels with iron fittings and softwood cabins don't last 75 years - in fact my cabin has just been repaired and reskinned after 25 which is considered good.

 

Paul

 

To add to the reply made by "Paul H" most narrow boats were altered during their time in trade - so what is original and what is not ?

 

Most former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. narrow boats that passed to 'British Waterways' were rebottomed and refotted during the 1950's using a combination of riveting and welding - as well as replacing most original water cooled engines with air cooled versions. 'British Waterways' also removed many of the 'Yarwood' built riveted cabins from these boats, replacing them with wooden versions. 'British Waterways' rebottommed a few composite narrow boats with steel during their working lives, and also fitted a few butty's with extended cabins. Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company, amongst other carriers, also carried out similar modernisation of their boats. If it wasn't for these boats being maintained and modernised in this way I am sure there would be far fewer survivors than we see today in the hands of enthusiasts.

[Chertsey]

ex FMC Fern must be another on e of the most recent conversions. An awful mess. I would love to be able to buy it and gas off the conversion. Given I know how much the hull sold for I could never bring myself to pay it even if I had he money. It is an abomonation.

 

I also have to say that I disagree with the idea that it is acceptable to treat a conversion as just another episode in a boats history. So few, if any of the boats today have not been altered in some way so that they could never be returned to how they were in working days. In most other areas of preservation this type of activity is increasingly being viewed as less and less acceptable. I despair at how people involved with canals pay so little attention to the history and heritage of the not just the boats but also the architecture of the network. People are far too selective in which pieces of heritage they chose to take on board. It is not all about roses and castles, how many polished knobs in the back cabin and playing dress up at rallies!

To take an unconverted boat, and convert it, permanently, now, would indeed be a crime. But to remove an early Malcolm Braine, say, conversion, when there are dozens of deconverted boats already, would equally be a crime against history.

 

Surely to restore a boat to a facsimile of itself when new is symptomatic of a 'dressing up and playing at working boats' culture; those who really love boats and value their history value all its stages and incarnations.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Chertsey

[Hairy-Neil]

I'm sure there are people about who would graft the arm back on the Venus de Milo.....