Norman Anglin and n.b. Russian, 1928-30

[Joseph]

Hello everyone

 

I am researching the subject of Norman Anglin (1891-1944), a precursor of L T C Rolt who also lived on a converted Shropshire Union boat and wrote about his encounters with people on narrow boats (and indeed seagoing vessels); he wrote various artciles on this for a regional newspaper.

 

He organised the conversion and motorisation of the Shropshire fly boat Russian at Manchester in 1928. Russian was regaited for the SURCCo in 1908 and then passed through several hands before being used as a manure boat between Warrington, Lymm and Manchester between 1926 and 1928. Mr Anglin travelled a range of waterways, including the Kennet & Avon line to Bristol, in 1928 and 1929, when the last account was his journey up the Warwickshire Avon in summer 1929. His involvement in pleasure boating was cited in 1930, and then the trail goes cold. In 1939 he was described as "of Gibraltar".

 

Two questions arise:

 

1. Has anyone any idea what happened to Russian?

 

2. Writing in Landscape with Machines, Tom Rolt stated that in 1929, when Cressy was being converted at Frankton, there were only two other conversions in existence. This would almost certainly include Russian, which Kyrle Willans, who knew the Kennet and Avon, would have heard about, at the very least. Does anyone have any idea what the other one could be? I have heard the Elizabeth referred to as a very early conversion, but with no date cited.

 

As ever, I would be very grateful for any assistance. This is a small corner of research, but one worthy of investigation and, if possible, resolution.

 

Joseph

[Giggetty]

Hello everyone

 

I am researching the subject of Norman Anglin (1891-1944), a precursor of L T C Rolt who also lived on a converted Shropshire Union boat and wrote about his encounters with people on narrow boats (and indeed seagoing vessels); he wrote various artciles on this for a regional newspaper.

 

He organised the conversion and motorisation of the Shropshire fly boat Russian at Manchester in 1928. Russian was regaited for the SURCCo in 1908 and then passed through several hands before being used as a manure boat between Warrington, Lymm and Manchester between 1926 and 1928. Mr Anglin travelled a range of waterways, including the Kennet & Avon line to Bristol, in 1928 and 1929, when the last account was his journey up the Warwickshire Avon in summer 1929. His involvement in pleasure boating was cited in 1930, and then the trail goes cold. In 1939 he was described as "of Gibraltar".

 

Two questions arise:

 

1. Has anyone any idea what happened to Russian?

 

2. Writing in Landscape with Machines, Tom Rolt stated that in 1929, when Cressy was being converted at Frankton, there were only two other conversions in existence. This would almost certainly include Russian, which Kyrle Willans, who knew the Kennet and Avon, would have heard about, at the very least. Does anyone have any idea what the other one could be? I have heard the Elizabeth referred to as a very early conversion, but with no date cited.

 

As ever, I would be very grateful for any assistance. This is a small corner of research, but one worthy of investigation and, if possible, resolution.

 

Joseph

This is his bibliography:

 

(Samuel) Norman ANGLIN {UK} (M: 1891 - 1944 Nov 28)

The Wandering Wind [p|1917]

1919 [p|1919]

Melilot [1927]

Hapton's Daughter [1928]

Poison Gas [d|1928]

 

Would there be any clues there?

[pete harrison]

Hello everyone

 

I am researching the subject of Norman Anglin (1891-1944), a precursor of L T C Rolt who also lived on a converted Shropshire Union boat and wrote about his encounters with people on narrow boats (and indeed seagoing vessels); he wrote various artciles on this for a regional newspaper.

 

He organised the conversion and motorisation of the Shropshire fly boat Russian at Manchester in 1928. Russian was regaited for the SURCCo in 1908 and then passed through several hands before being used as a manure boat between Warrington, Lymm and Manchester between 1926 and 1928. Mr Anglin travelled a range of waterways, including the Kennet & Avon line to Bristol, in 1928 and 1929, when the last account was his journey up the Warwickshire Avon in summer 1929. His involvement in pleasure boating was cited in 1930, and then the trail goes cold. In 1939 he was described as "of Gibraltar".

 

Two questions arise:

 

1. Has anyone any idea what happened to Russian?

 

2. Writing in Landscape with Machines, Tom Rolt stated that in 1929, when Cressy was being converted at Frankton, there were only two other conversions in existence. This would almost certainly include Russian, which Kyrle Willans, who knew the Kennet and Avon, would have heard about, at the very least. Does anyone have any idea what the other one could be? I have heard the Elizabeth referred to as a very early conversion, but with no date cited.

 

As ever, I would be very grateful for any assistance. This is a small corner of research, but one worthy of investigation and, if possible, resolution.

 

Joseph

 

I have the original health registration details for RUSSIAN at Chester, and its later health registration in Manchester. The latter states in my transcript "RECONSTRUCTED AS HOUSE BOAT & REMOVED FROM REGISTER 11/02/1929". Unfortunately I have no record of RUSSIAN's fate, except to say it is most likely long since broken up.

 

ELIZABETH was converted to a pleasure boat in 1936 so does not fit in with your request for details of the other early conversion.

[Joseph]

Very many thanks Giggetty and Pete

 

Interesting that Russian would be described as a "house boat", which probably reflects the lack of pleasure boats of any size at the time. Good to see that Elizabeth has been eliminated from the enquiries here; is it the case that this boat is still afloat? I agree that Russian was probably destroyed long ago.

 

Giggetty, I've seen the list of Mr Anglin's publications and a newspaper review of one; they seem to have been largely science fiction of a (then) advanced kind, so few clues there. Mr A seems to have given up after Poison Gas, and perhaps if the reason was known this might provide a pointer.

 

Any more info, even speculations, would be gratefully received.

 

Joseph

 

 

I have the original health registration details for RUSSIAN at Chester, and its later health registration in Manchester. The latter states in my transcript "RECONSTRUCTED AS HOUSE BOAT & REMOVED FROM REGISTER 11/02/1929". Unfortunately I have no record of RUSSIAN's fate, except to say it is most likely long since broken up.

 

ELIZABETH was converted to a pleasure boat in 1936 so does not fit in with your request for details of the other early conversion.

[carlt]

Good to see that Elizabeth has been eliminated from the enquiries here; is it the case that this boat is still afloat?

She is indeed: HNBOC Clicky

[scrumpylurcher]

She is indeed: HNBOC Clicky

Still about , was at Coventry for the HNBOC gathering last April, here pictured at Braunston on its way home.

 

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/Scrumpylurcher/Elizabeth-Braunston--4-10.jpg[/img[

[matty40s]

fantastic boat, I am sure she was berthed at Berkhamstead opposite the station for a few days in the last 12 months, and I didn't have my camera on me to capture. (which is unusual as I usually have 2 to get a photo.!!

[Speedwheel]

Still owned by Jim Mcdonald after 40 or so years

 

Easiest pic I can find. Xmas 2007 when we all went to Warwickshire Fly.

[Joseph]

This is very interesting.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but are there details about the original conversion of Elizabeth?

 

Still interested in Mr Anglin and Russian.

 

Joseph

[BuckbyLocks]

This is very interesting.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but are there details about the original conversion of Elizabeth?

 

Still interested in Mr Anglin and Russian.

 

Joseph

 

'Bridgemere' ex SURC 'Skate' was not converted until 1933, so it cannot have been that one.

[Joseph]

Many thanks. It's very helpful to see this information

 

What is the history of Bridgmere?

 

Digging round, I have heard mention of Felis Catus I, once owned by the late Mike Stevens, which apparently had various earlier names. Could this be the candidate?

 

Great if anyone can help.

 

 

Joseph

[Hugh]

 

Forgive my ignorance, but are there details about the original conversion of Elizabeth?

 

 

Joseph

 

At the risk of being accused of advertising (Oh, not again, they cried . . .) a quick search of the online index reveals that much of the story of Elizabeth's conversion was told in an article by Euan Corrie in April 1987 Waterways World.

 

Hugh

[BuckbyLocks]

What is the history of Bridgmere?

Joseph

 

Skate, 1913 SURCCo, sold off 1923 to Chester and Liverpool Lighterage. Renamed Bridgemere 1924, sold out of trade 1933. Coverted 33-34, lived on in London after a few trips from Worcester on the Welsh Cut and broken up in 1937

[Paul H]

Robert Aikman (no less) wrote a couple of articles for Waterways World in March and April 1975 entitled Pioneer Conversions.

 

He talks of Cressy as being one of "the first three" converted boats and said he knew one of the others - the Imogen owned by Sir John Jardine, Bart, who had a uniformed crew (and a butler!) but which ended up moored at Staines where it housed the cinema car park attendant. He then goes on to mention other boats which followed the example of Cressy like Beatrice and his own Phosphorus. Unfortunately his style is a little flowery and he doesn't go into dates but I think we've probably got the three now.

 

Paul

Edited December 20, 2010 by Paul H

[pete harrison]

Robert Aikman (no less) wrote a couple of articles for Waterways World in March and April 1975 entitled Pioneer Conversions.

 

He talks of Cressy as being one of "the first three" converted boats and said he knew one of the others - the Imogen owned by Sir John Jardine, Bart, who had a uniformed crew (and a butler!) but which ended up moored at Staines where it housed the cinema car park attendant. He then goes on to mention other boats which followed the example of Cressy like Beatrice and his own Phosphorus. Unfortunately his style is a little flowery and he doesn't go into dates but I think we've probably got the three now.

 

Paul

 

I can confirm that there were several narrow boats converted to house / pleasure boats during the early 1930's including IMOGEN (1931), CRACOW (1931), SUCCESS (1935) and ELIZABETH (1936). PHOSPHOROUS was not converted until 1946 and BEATRICE in 1948. Clearly RUSSIAN (1928) and CRESSY (1929) are two of the earliest conversions recorded but I am sure there were several more.

[Paul H]

I can confirm that there were several narrow boats converted to house / pleasure boats during the early 1930's including IMOGEN (1931), CRACOW (1931), SUCCESS (1935) and ELIZABETH (1936). PHOSPHOROUS was not converted until 1946 and BEATRICE in 1948. Clearly RUSSIAN (1928) and CRESSY (1929) are two of the earliest conversions recorded but I am sure there were several more.

Certainly there were earlier houseboats - Henry Taunt, the well known Oxford photographer, recorded a converted narrow boat at St Helens Wharf, Abingdon in 1878 and he photographed it again at the same spot again in 1885 or 1897. I suspect that the reference to the first three converted boats relates to mobile boats which were extensively cruised.

 

Paul

[Joseph]

Hello again

 

Hugh, I am red-faced about the WW article - I suppose one should not write when snowed in a long way from one's collection of back issues....

 

I'm not so sure about the piece by Robert Aickman, since this was based on a letter of 28 December 1945 from Tom Rolt, now in the National Archives. At the time Tom referred to two conversions other than CRESSY. One was IMAGEN, converted by Trevithick of Nottingham in 1932 (or so he wrote, not 1931) for the industrialist Sir John Jardine; and the “conversion” (actually a new build) of SUSAN SHEILA by Nurser of Braunston in 1935-6 for the LNER director Carr-Ellison.

 

I take it from this that the conversions he cited in 1929 (RUSSIAN and a mysterious one) were no longer in existence by 1945.

 

I am very grateful to all those who have replied - a much fuller picture is emerging.

 

Joseph

[pete harrison]

Hello again

 

Hugh, I am red-faced about the WW article - I suppose one should not write when snowed in a long way from one's collection of back issues....

 

I'm not so sure about the piece by Robert Aickman, since this was based on a letter of 28 December 1945 from Tom Rolt, now in the National Archives. At the time Tom referred to two conversions other than CRESSY. One was IMAGEN, converted by Trevithick of Nottingham in 1932 (or so he wrote, not 1931) for the industrialist Sir John Jardine; and the “conversion” (actually a new build) of SUSAN SHEILA by Nurser of Braunston in 1935-6 for the LNER director Carr-Ellison.

 

I take it from this that the conversions he cited in 1929 (RUSSIAN and a mysterious one) were no longer in existence by 1945.

 

I am very grateful to all those who have replied - a much fuller picture is emerging.

 

Joseph

 

IMOGEN may have been converted in 1932 - I referred to the date of sale to Colonel Jardine (March 1931) and assumed the conversion was carried out by the end of the year. I know, I should not assume !

 

I did not include SUSAN SHEILA as this was a new build (as stated above) by Nurser Brothers, Braunston and so was not a conversion. Nurser's recorded this build as being for "Captain Elisson-Carr, Northumberland" and was "taken away" on 30 October 1935.

Edited December 21, 2010 by pete harrison

[Pluto]

If you are interested in 1930s conversions, there were three on the L&LC. In 1933, IOTA was given to canal director Mr Willink for conversion to a boys club moored at one of Manchester Collieries sites. I don't know what happened to this. A second boat was converted by Wigan Boys Club in 1936/7. I have the original name somewhere, but the converted named was DUKE OF GLOUCESTER, the Duke coming to Wigan to perform the renaming. A few years later it was derelict, or at least in very poor condition, and was broken up. Finally, a Wigan doctor, Dr Portman, had a boat converted around the same time which he renamed WHIM. This became an LDV boat during the war, and was broken up in 1944 because of its then poor condition. There are photos of the two Wigan boats, including news cine film taken of the Duke of Gloucester at Wigan.

[Joseph]

Happy Christmas everyone

 

I thought there might be ONE reply to my query, so I'm very impressed by the plethora of responses.

 

Pete, no admonition; interesting to know when the boat went out of service, and this gives an impression of how long it took to convert. Pluto, I've come across the Wigan Boys Club boat and their outings; presumably it all ended in wartime.

 

Still interested in Felis Catus - any ideas? I have also dredged up another sighting of a converted boat on the canal to Llangollen - Minnie Tonka, last seen in the 1940s in an advanced state of rot.

 

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

All the best for the New Year.

 

Joseph

[pete harrison]

 

Still interested in Felis Catus - any ideas? I have also dredged up another sighting of a converted boat on the canal to Llangollen - Minnie Tonka, last seen in the 1940s in an advanced state of rot.

 

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

Joseph

 

I have FELIS CATUS as a wooden former B.C.N. day boat reduced to 40', and having been previously named JEMSON, JOSH, MURRAY (chronological order newest to oldest). Unfortunately I have no record of this boats B.C.N. gauge number so its commercial history is unknown to me, but I do know it was the Michael Stevens led consortium that renamed it from JEMSON to FELIS CATUS in 1977. My records suggest that FELIS CATUS was still extant about 10 years ago although completely rebuilt. There is no current record of the index number B.W.B. allocated to FELIS CATUS so I can not confirm whether it is still exists today.

 

I am unable to provide any details regarding MINNIE TONKA.

[Derek R.]

I remember a Felis Catus around the Uxbridge area in the early eighties, an 'interesting' looking boat - along with the 'Lea', with its name made of pieces of small branches pieced together to make the letters. Interesting characters too, sometimes tied up on the offside in different places. Have not seen either for many a year.

[Joseph]

hello everyone

 

and Happy Easter.

 

Just to let people know that my researches on Norman Anglin and Russian progressed to an article ion the Waterways Journal, which has just been published. I would like to thank everyone here who helped with this; amazing that one can go from an obscure reference o a long article.

 

If anyone gets a copy and finds anything more about this character - there is much unanswered - I would be very interested in learning this. It's great to see pieces created by the bringing together of scattered bits of information, without which there would be much missing.

 

This isn't an April Fool, btw, its the afternoon!

 

And I'm not advertising - the WJ is produced pro bono and I don't get a penny for it. But it is a good journal; some excellent contributions over the years.

 

Take care

 

Joseph

[Heartland]

Yus, Waterways Journal is a good publication.

If you had attended Council, some of us might have seen a copy

 

Ray Shill