Boating at 01.00

[mayalld]

Dont have a boat yet so wouldn't know but if boat engines are like other engines then 'tick over' revs are adjustable. Tickover on one engine may be set at 800ish and on another at 1000ish. No ?

 

Makes 'tickover' a bit academic.

 

Yes, tickover revs are adjustable. However, adjusting them outside a narrow band is rarely good for the engine.

[choogh]

With time, you will acquire the necessary skill to steer at tickover.

 

Its a question of maintaining safe minimum manouvering speed. It has nothing to do with any fixed engine RPM, tickover or otherwise.

Edited September 7, 2010 by choogh

[Guest]

You're confusing engine speed with crusing speed.

 

I'm not confusing anything with anything - I'm merely stating our boat can slip past other boats on tick over with no problem, unless that is if it's very windy when I have to up the revs and therefore the cruising speed a little.

[blodger]

I think that folk get too hung up on speed/engine revs. For boating at night/early hours beyond 'Health & Safety' issues consideration to others involves two things IMO.

 

The general disturbance due to noise & light pollution and,

disturbance to the water affecting others and wildlife.

 

Both in the vicinity of others are in the main minimised the closer to tickover one can get. However, it is sometimes tortuous awaiting the passage of a craft going slow but lighting up the whole world ahead and around it as it does so. I often wish the latter would get a move on and get past!

[Naughty Cal]

Some of the best boating is to be had after the hours of darkness. Passing moored boats as slowly as the conditions allow is of course the considerate thing to do. Tickover isnt necessarily the answer to passing safely and considerately though for every given situation.

 

It should also be noted that boats passing moored boats during the hours of darkness always feel to the moored boat to be going quicker than they actually are. Not sure why this is but we have noticed it ourselves.

[kitman]

How about this technique, drift past in neutral and put it in gear momentarily to straighten yourself up every now and again. Anyone do that one? Stealth mode!

 

Now Dave Mayall don't try and tell me this doesn't work for you, you will acquire the necessary skill to steer like this in the dark one day my young padawan! :patronising smiley:

[mayalld]

How about this technique, drift past in neutral and put it in gear momentarily to straighten yourself up every now and again. Anyone do that one? Stealth mode!

 

Now Dave Mayall don't try and tell me this doesn't work for you, you will acquire the necessary skill to steer like this in the dark one day my young padawan! :patronising smiley:

 

Wouldn't dream of it.

 

It is a technique that I often use when passing an obviously poorly moored boat.

[Naughty Cal]

How about this technique, drift past in neutral and put it in gear momentarily to straighten yourself up every now and again. Anyone do that one? Stealth mode!

 

Now Dave Mayall don't try and tell me this doesn't work for you, you will acquire the necessary skill to steer like this in the dark one day my young padawan! :patronising smiley:

 

Yes its a technique we often have to use when following narrowboats and we cant get past them

[alan_fincher]

You should pass moored boats at tickover even during daylight hours.

 

No you shouldn't, Dave. This is an opinion you hold, not any real rule of the cut.

 

You should pass moored boats slowly. Engine rotation speed is irrelevant.

 

Agreed

 

Well almost - if it's a big, very wide, deep canal, it may not even need to be particularly slow in some cases.

 

You should pass moored boats at an appropriate speed to easily meet or exceed the requirements about "navigating with care", "reasonable consideration for all users of the canal", and "not causing damage" to banks or boats.

 

There is nowt anywhere that mentions tick-over, or prescribes that another boat has to remain totally static as you pass, however badly or inappropriately it has been moored.

 

You should pass moored boats as slowly as you are able. In general, that will equate to having the engine at tickover.

 

Far from irrelevant.

 

No you shouldn't, Dave. This is an opinion you hold, not any real rule of the cut.

 

I don't know why I keep taking the bait on this one, but your suggestion is preposterous.

 

It makes nil regard for the boat doing the passing, the boats being passed, but, most particularly the depth and width (in channel and at the bank) of the waterway in question.

 

It is insulting to suggest that the majority of boaters are so stupid as to not be able to make any kind of judgement, and therefore there must be an invented, (and it is invented), "rule" that pre-supposes they are all idiots.

 

You would object to an "everybody should hold their boats on ropes in locks, because some people are too stupid to be let loose in them otherwise" argument, I suspect, so why adopt this kind of approach to an argument about sensible use of speed ?

Edited September 7, 2010 by alan_fincher

[kitman]

Wouldn't dream of it.

 

It is a technique that I often use when passing an obviously poorly moored boat.

Powerful you have become, the dark side I sense in you.

[RichardN]

1100rpm - 1200rpm causes very little wash but enables me to steer. 1600 - 1800rpm is cruising speed.

 

I don't think your speeds are unusual but it is surprising how much difference there is between boats. Cruising speed for us is 1100-1200 rpm, at 1800 rpm it feels like you could water ski behind us!

[Dovetail]

Its always amused me that the old work boats can go past at a reasonable speed with very little wash and virtually no rocking of my boat but then when a new boat passes at a similar speed it can almost pull my pins out of ground.

 

I say give it a go Bugsy its very interesting and very different and you will not want to go any faster than slow trust me on that.

 

Pick a nice full moon with a bit of mist and also best on a stretch of canal that you know whats around the corner.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Dovetail

[Naughty Cal]

I don't think your speeds are unusual but it is surprising how much difference there is between boats. Cruising speed for us is 1100-1200 rpm, at 1800 rpm it feels like you could water ski behind us!

 

Surely cruising revs are also based on where you are cruising. Ours can be anywhere from 800rpm on shallow waters such as canals to 3600rpm on the sea or open water.

[Bones]

You should pass moored boats at tickover even during daylight hours.

 

In general, when boating after dark, I prefer to travel at tickover (or just slightly over) all the way.

 

 

I often say this myself, but when I looked for the documentation I only noticed that it said to slow down past moored boats and didn't actually specify how slow.... Is there somewhere that does specify that you can guide me to?

[koukouvagia]

 

Just because I'm doing 1100rpm past moored boats doesn't mean I'm speeding. If anything it's rather on the slow side.

 

And just because my Kelvin's pootling along at 250 doesn't mean I'm not pulling out people's mooring pins

[alan_fincher]

I often say this myself, but when I looked for the documentation I only noticed that it said to slow down past moored boats and didn't actually specify how slow.... Is there somewhere that does specify that you can guide me to?

No this is Dave's rule, (and to be fair a view shared by many others), but has no basis either in BW bye-laws or in their licence conditions.

 

Dave's argument seems to be that because only a few, (in fact he says "a tiny proportion"), are capable of correctly judging a speed that is appropriate, (and obviously we are talking about Dave's judgement of appropriate), then the "tick-over" rule should be unconditionally applied, thereby assuming that most boaters are incapable of getting it right.

 

The actual requirements, (rather than Dave's version of things), are....

 

Every vessel navigating on any canal shall at all times be navigated with care and reasonable consideration for all persons using the canal or being on the banks thereof and in particular in such a manner as will not obstruct the passage of any other vessel using the canal or involve risk of collision or endanger the safety of other vessels or their moorings or cause damage thereto or to the banks of the canal or to any part of the Board’s property.

 

Of course then that provokes a debate about what "reasonable consideration" means, as it's hardly a legally quantifiable thing, I suspect.

 

But, if I want to play Devil's advocate, as Dave is often so strong on the rules and regulations topic, I could argue that proceeding ahead of me, doggedly in tick-over, where the canal is wide and deep, and it is clearly excessively cautious, could be construed as "obstructing the passage of other vessels", and hence in itself a breach of the bye-laws.

 

Dave talks a lot of sense on many issues, but his dogged insistence on this point frustrates the hell out of me. I suspect it is borne of his experience of being based on, and doing much of his boating, on canals that are narrow, or shallow at the sides, where this is often an issue.

 

I hope if he actually considered the situations that exists elsewhere he would see how bonkers his blanket rule actually is.

 

We moor on not particularly good end-on pontoons on the Grand Union, that are not even half the boats length, and where securing it fully is impossible. Virtually no boats slow to tick-over as they pass our moorings, and some don't slow at all. Sometimes they seem to be approaching at a speed where you think "this one really is too fast", but still the disturbance is minimal. We don't get upset by the speed of passing boaters, either on our home mooring, or when actually out elsewhere on the same canal, and (very thankfully!), few other people do, either.

 

With the sheer numbers of boats moored on-line hereabouts, (sometimes continuous miles and miles of them), a tick-over rule is a piece of total twaddle that would have serious impacts on being able to progress anywhere at a reasonable rate.

 

...... However, I have no idea why I continue to witter on on this though, because I know there is a solid core of people on here who will brand me as some kind of raving speed freak because I choose to interpret BW rules as what they actually say, not, as others do, what I would like them to say!....

[jelunga]

Its always amused me that the old work boats can go past at a reasonable speed with very little wash and virtually no rocking of my boat but then when a new boat passes at a similar speed it can almost pull my pins out of ground.

 

I say give it a go Bugsy its very interesting and very different and you will not want to go any faster than slow trust me on that.

 

Pick a nice full moon with a bit of mist and also best on a stretch of canal that you know whats around the corner.

 

The problem with the full moon will be that the OP's howling will often wake up sleepers. In addition, the additional crew member who is often employed by HMRC to check on fuel duty declarations, will have to be back in their coffin before daybreak.

 

No this is Dave's rule, (and to be fair a view shared by many others), but has no basis either in BW bye-laws or in their licence conditions.

 

Dave's argument seems to be that because only a few, (in fact he says "a tiny proportion"), are capable of correctly judging a speed that is appropriate, (and obviously we are talking about Dave's judgement of appropriate), then the "tick-over" rule should be unconditionally applied, thereby assuming that most boaters are incapable of getting it right.

 

The actual requirements, (rather than Dave's version of things), are....

 

 

 

Of course then that provokes a debate about what "reasonable consideration" means, as it's hardly a legally quantifiable thing, I suspect.

 

But, if I want to play Devil's advocate, as Dave is often so strong on the rules and regulations topic, I could argue that proceeding ahead of me, doggedly in tick-over, where the canal is wide and deep, and it is clearly excessively cautious, could be construed as "obstructing the passage of other vessels", and hence in itself a breach of the bye-laws.

 

Dave talks a lot of sense on many issues, but his dogged insistence on this point frustrates the hell out of me. I suspect it is borne of his experience of being based on, and doing much of his boating, on canals that are narrow, or shallow at the sides, where this is often an issue.

 

I hope if he actually considered the situations that exists elsewhere he would see how bonkers his blanket rule actually is.

 

We moor on not particularly good end-on pontoons on the Grand Union, that are not even half the boats length, and where securing it fully is impossible. Virtually no boats slow to tick-over as they pass our moorings, and some don't slow at all. Sometimes they seem to be approaching at a speed where you think "this one really is too fast", but still the disturbance is minimal. We don't get upset by the speed of passing boaters, either on our home mooring, or when actually out elsewhere on the same canal, and (very thankfully!), few other people do, either.

 

With the sheer numbers of boats moored on-line hereabouts, (sometimes continuous miles and miles of them), a tick-over rule is a piece of total twaddle that would have serious impacts on being able to progress anywhere at a reasonable rate.

 

...... However, I have no idea why I continue to witter on on this though, because I know there is a solid core of people on here who will brand me as some kind of raving speed freak because I choose to interpret BW rules as what they actually say, not, as others do, what I would like them to say!....

 

I totally agree with your sentiments Alan.

 

What is a reasonable speed for one boat can be way too fast for another. With Lily Maud, I am constantly impressed with the hull design, how smoothly she passes through the water with minimal disturbance at speeds that other boats would cause significant disturbance. It is all down to depth / width / hull design.

 

So, whilst I sometimes pass boats real slow, I do also pass at higher speeds if I have judged that my passage through the water is not causing unreasonable disturbance.

 

(Does that make sense?)

[billh]

And just because my Kelvin's pootling along at 250 doesn't mean I'm not pulling out people's mooring pins

 

Aye, but based on what others have said, a "flat-out" 700rpm is perfectly acceptable , people rocked to sleep accompanied by the dulcet tones of an old Bergius-Kelvin lullaby fading into the night.

[Bones]

which means that boats do not have to slow down past moored boats.

[Keeping Up]

No this is Dave's rule, (and to be fair a view shared by many others), but has no basis either in BW bye-laws or in their licence conditions.

 

Dave's argument seems to be that because only a few, (in fact he says "a tiny proportion"), are capable of correctly judging a speed that is appropriate, (and obviously we are talking about Dave's judgement of appropriate), then the "tick-over" rule should be unconditionally applied, thereby assuming that most boaters are incapable of getting it right.

 

The actual requirements, (rather than Dave's version of things), are....

 

 

 

Of course then that provokes a debate about what "reasonable consideration" means, as it's hardly a legally quantifiable thing, I suspect.

 

But, if I want to play Devil's advocate, as Dave is often so strong on the rules and regulations topic, I could argue that proceeding ahead of me, doggedly in tick-over, where the canal is wide and deep, and it is clearly excessively cautious, could be construed as "obstructing the passage of other vessels", and hence in itself a breach of the bye-laws.

 

Dave talks a lot of sense on many issues, but his dogged insistence on this point frustrates the hell out of me. I suspect it is borne of his experience of being based on, and doing much of his boating, on canals that are narrow, or shallow at the sides, where this is often an issue.

 

I hope if he actually considered the situations that exists elsewhere he would see how bonkers his blanket rule actually is.

 

We moor on not particularly good end-on pontoons on the Grand Union, that are not even half the boats length, and where securing it fully is impossible. Virtually no boats slow to tick-over as they pass our moorings, and some don't slow at all. Sometimes they seem to be approaching at a speed where you think "this one really is too fast", but still the disturbance is minimal. We don't get upset by the speed of passing boaters, either on our home mooring, or when actually out elsewhere on the same canal, and (very thankfully!), few other people do, either.

 

With the sheer numbers of boats moored on-line hereabouts, (sometimes continuous miles and miles of them), a tick-over rule is a piece of total twaddle that would have serious impacts on being able to progress anywhere at a reasonable rate.

 

...... However, I have no idea why I continue to witter on on this though, because I know there is a solid core of people on here who will brand me as some kind of raving speed freak because I choose to interpret BW rules as what they actually say, not, as others do, what I would like them to say!....

 

I agree with you Alan. I came past your boat a couple of days ago, and of course I speeded up as I approached it but it still didn't seem to rock around very much.

 

which means that boats do not have to slow down past moored boats.

 

Nobody slows down on rivers - people just moor up properly on the assumption that there will be wash and current.

[Hairy-Neil]

Can someone please tell the lorry driver who went past my bedroom window at 4.30 this morning, before rattling his empty baulker over the nearby level crossing, that he should be more considerate to people in their beds....

[AlanH]

In ten years of boating I've never had my mooring pins pulled out by a passing boat. I don't mind my boat being rocked a little as other boats pass. For me,it is part of boating.

 

Tickover speed varies from boat to boat. Only last weekend I got behind a boat at Poynton where there is nearly a mile of moored boats. He was going at his tickover but I had to keep putting the boat in neutral in order to go that slowly.

 

I do slow down but not to tickover and I've never been shouted at for speeding.

[mayalld]

No this is Dave's rule, (and to be fair a view shared by many others), but has no basis either in BW bye-laws or in their licence conditions.

 

Dave's argument seems to be that because only a few, (in fact he says "a tiny proportion"), are capable of correctly judging a speed that is appropriate, (and obviously we are talking about Dave's judgement of appropriate), then the "tick-over" rule should be unconditionally applied, thereby assuming that most boaters are incapable of getting it right.

 

The actual requirements, (rather than Dave's version of things), are....

 

 

 

Of course then that provokes a debate about what "reasonable consideration" means, as it's hardly a legally quantifiable thing, I suspect.

 

But, if I want to play Devil's advocate, as Dave is often so strong on the rules and regulations topic, I could argue that proceeding ahead of me, doggedly in tick-over, where the canal is wide and deep, and it is clearly excessively cautious, could be construed as "obstructing the passage of other vessels", and hence in itself a breach of the bye-laws.

 

Dave talks a lot of sense on many issues, but his dogged insistence on this point frustrates the hell out of me. I suspect it is borne of his experience of being based on, and doing much of his boating, on canals that are narrow, or shallow at the sides, where this is often an issue.

 

I hope if he actually considered the situations that exists elsewhere he would see how bonkers his blanket rule actually is.

 

We moor on not particularly good end-on pontoons on the Grand Union, that are not even half the boats length, and where securing it fully is impossible. Virtually no boats slow to tick-over as they pass our moorings, and some don't slow at all. Sometimes they seem to be approaching at a speed where you think "this one really is too fast", but still the disturbance is minimal. We don't get upset by the speed of passing boaters, either on our home mooring, or when actually out elsewhere on the same canal, and (very thankfully!), few other people do, either.

 

With the sheer numbers of boats moored on-line hereabouts, (sometimes continuous miles and miles of them), a tick-over rule is a piece of total twaddle that would have serious impacts on being able to progress anywhere at a reasonable rate.

 

...... However, I have no idea why I continue to witter on on this though, because I know there is a solid core of people on here who will brand me as some kind of raving speed freak because I choose to interpret BW rules as what they actually say, not, as others do, what I would like them to say!....

 

I'm glad that I frustrate you :-)

 

Perhaps I fail to state my case clearly.

 

I don't assert that there is any RULE that requires tickover. Nor do I assert that there is any blanket rule to be applied.

 

What I do assert is that compliance with the rules, and good manners, should result in a decision about speed that STARTS from a presumption of tickover, moves upwards from there to a point where adequate steerage can be maintained, and moves further upwards to the maximum speed where other boaters are unaffected, provided the steerer actually has the skill to judge that.

 

Far too many boaters look at it the other way, starting at cruising speed, and judging how little they can ease up and still get away with it.

 

Our home moorings are similar to yours, and we don't suffer badly when boats speed, but those moored (long term or short term) side-on are affected.

[alan_fincher]

Perhaps I fail to state my case clearly.

 

Yes, I think you could be accused of that, on this occasion.

 

I think most people would struggle to extract the same meaning out of this, (your initial post on the topic)....

 

You should pass moored boats at tickover even during daylight hours.

 

and this, (your latest post on the topic).....

 

What I do assert is that compliance with the rules, and good manners, should result in a decision about speed that STARTS from a presumption of tickover, moves upwards from there to a point where adequate steerage can be maintained, and moves further upwards to the maximum speed where other boaters are unaffected, provided the steerer actually has the skill to judge that.

 

To me, at least the rather more watered down comments of the second posting don't exactly say unequivocally "You should pass moored boats at tickover", which was what I was objecting too.

 

I think we will continue to disagree that the vast majority get it wrong - I'd personally say at the places where I boat most regularly it is more like a small minority, but there you go.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

I guess we might also quibble over what your "unaffected" means.

 

If it means "reasonable consideration" I'm sure we agree - if it means "didn't feel the boat move, and I was unaware you were even there", then I'm sure we don't !

Edited September 7, 2010 by alan_fincher

[KeithL]

Can someone please tell the lorry driver who went past my bedroom window at 4.30 this morning, before rattling his empty bulker over the nearby level crossing, that he should be more considerate to people in their beds....

 

They do make one hell of a racket when they are empty if they hit a pothole or cross a railway line!