Inconsiderate boaters

[n.b.Goldie]

Should we slow down past boats moored in a winding hole?

Probably not by a lot, the canal will be wide enough that they will not be much affected unless you are 'really going some'. The question of whether they are there illegally or not is a different one.

 

Generally, it is a matter of judgement and local knowledge as to by how much to slow down or if at all. Depth of water and width of canal both play a part. If you don't know the bit of canal you are navigating then slow down anyway just to be polite.

 

That being said I do agree that it as much the responsibility of the moored boater to ensure their boat is correctly moored. Casually banging in a couple of pins at the wrong angle and tying up very loose to them is not really mooring more like abandonment. These are, not surprisingly, the people who tend to complain most.

[cotswoldsman]

This forum has taught me that there's no point in slowing down to tickover every time there's a moored boat.....more often than not it's empty!

 

Don't quite understand why a boat being empty means you don't need to slow down.

 

 

The signs that say

 

"Which part of Slow Down do you not understand ?"

 

really piss me off.

 

To me they make the assumption that nobody ever does, whereas in my experience most boaters do slow down adequately, and only a relatively small minority do not.

 

Not to keen on

 

"For duck's sake, slow down!"

 

either - just don't hate them to quite the same degree.

 

As for

 

"Master boaters slow down........"

 

(yes, you know the one!..... )

 

Those types of sign are more likely to make me speed up. The one that really gets me is when I am passing moored boats at tick over and then some boat has a sign in the window that says "What part of slow down do you not understand" I have seen that one a few times.

[mayalld]

This forum has taught me that there's no point in slowing down to tickover every time there's a moored boat.....more often than not it's empty!

 

Clearly you don't "get it".

 

The point of slowing down past moored boats ISN'T that if the boat is occupied, you will make it uncomfortable for the occupier.

 

The point is that if you go past a moored boat at speed, even an empty one, you risk pulling mooring pins, or throwing the contents of the boat about.

 

I have never understood those who won't slow down, or who only slow down "a bit". Easing off to tickover makes very little difference to the time it takes to pass, but it makes a big difference to the amount of damage that you do to other boats.

[luctor et emergo]

So, what then, is the correct procedure?

 

Is it the bow wave that causes the problems, or the prop drawing the water? If the first, you must slow down well in advance of a moored boat, because your bow wave (wake) is determined by your vessel's speed. If it is the later, than knocking of the trottle just before you reach the moored boat is enough (bit like going through a bridge 'ole).

[mayalld]

So, what then, is the correct procedure?

 

Is it the bow wave that causes the problems, or the prop drawing the water? If the first, you must slow down well in advance of a moored boat, because your bow wave (wake) is determined by your vessel's speed. If it is the later, than knocking of the trottle just before you reach the moored boat is enough (bit like going through a bridge 'ole).

 

It is actually both, and whilst it isn't immediately obvious, both require you to slow down in advance.

[Nine of Hearts]

So, what then, is the correct procedure?

 

Is it the bow wave that causes the problems, or the prop drawing the water? If the first, you must slow down well in advance of a moored boat, because your bow wave (wake) is determined by your vessel's speed. If it is the later, than knocking of the trottle just before you reach the moored boat is enough (bit like going through a bridge 'ole).

 

I thought it was that as you're a big lump (no offence) travelling down a trough, you suck water from in front and spit it out the back. So you suck boats in front towards you, pull them off the bank as you pass, and then drag them back behind you in your wake. If you're battering along, you're sucking more water from in front so you'll start to shift boats from further away, and with greater force.

For a properly moored boat, this won't do any damage as such, but it will make it rub with extra force against its fenders, and pull harder on its mooring lines, causing greater wear. Which isn't going to sink it, but it is avoidable and so shurely should be?

 

Should we also insist on having the word "please" on road stop signs before we deign to obey them?

[alan_fincher]

I have never understood those who won't slow down, or who only slow down "a bit". Easing off to tickover makes very little difference to the time it takes to pass, but it makes a big difference to the amount of damage that you do to other boats.

Maybe for passing the occasional boat this is true.

 

But if I were to do the trip from "home" into London, the difference between passing every moored boat at the legal limit and at a genuine tick-over would be enormous. I shan't actually do the maths, but if there are miles and miles of moored boats, and you pass them at half "full" speed or less, clearly it makes a substantial difference. (You wouldn't claim that if you did large stretches of a motorway at 30 mph rather than 70 mph it didn't significantly impact journey time, would you ?).

 

Clearly I am not advocating passing the boats at high speed, but the sensible approach involves judging the moorings in question, versus general canal condition, depth, width, etc. Mercifully there are very few places on this trip that dictate a genuine "tick-over" - i.e. no "throttle" at all.

 

When we first started boating through London itself, and on to the wide lower reaches of the Lee, we were somewhat surprised that most boats hardly slow for moorings at all. After spending a while moored though, you quickly appreciate that it it is because it really ain't necessary, and that self imposed "tick-over" would be a joke.

 

I actually doubt that many steel narrow-boats suffer very much genuine damage from speeding boaters do they, although I'm certainly not condoning the behaviour. I have never once had anything crashing to the floors either, even when rocked around a bit by some twit who hasn't got it quite right.

 

(I now await series of posts from people claiming much damage to boats, contents, and people aboard as a result of boats not at tick-over!)

 

 

Should we also insist on having the word "please" on road stop signs before we deign to obey them?

Most road signs have been erected by the proper authorities.

 

I don't necessarily expect to adjust my behaviours on roads because locals have decided to errect their own "witty" set to try and make me drive differently from what the law requires, or how I have been taught.

[Mrs Humdinger]

Sometimes everything just conspires against you. We were moored not far from Great Haywood Junction, on the Staff & Worcs bit, a couple of weeks ago. Having banged in the pins up to their heads and tied up securely (or so we thought) we went to the shops only to find on our return the boat floating adrift. The ground was so soft, and with the boats going up and down and the pull from the lock, they just wouldn't hold. At one point, I had the centre rope tied round my waist and my heels dug into the ground, but still couldn't hold it right in because of the amount of traffic, and I'm far from being a slip of a girl. We had a hasty trip to the chandlers and invested in some chains. Now, if at all possible, we'll use the chains to moor up, rather than the pins, just to be on the safe side.

[alan_fincher]

I thought it was that as you're a big lump (no offence) travelling down a trough, you suck water from in front and spit it out the back.

 

So you suck boats in front towards you, pull them off the bank as you pass, and then drag them back behind you in your wake.

That doesn't sound like the physics I'd expect, or observe. (Unless I'm misunderstanding how you are trying to describe it).

 

Surely simple logic says you push extra water ahead of you, but create a trough behind. In a narrow channel, water struggles to get from the artificial "high" in front, past your boat, to fill the "hole" you have moved out of.

 

Unless your boat is very different from ours.

 

It's worth spending time watching what actually goes on, as you move along the canal, rather than making assumptions about what you think may happen.

[daves6guitars]

Yes, that one is moronic. There is a line of boats on a mooring, I think on the Middlewich Branch and several of them have the same photo-copied sign in a window. I think they are proud of having used a long word.

 

Been past these several times (verrrrrrrry slowwwwwwly)...farmyard moorings, never had a friendly wave or smile yet !!

[Guest User]

<snip>

I thought it was that as you're a big lump (no offence) travelling down a trough, you suck water from in front and spit it out the back. So you suck boats in front towards you, pull them off the bank as you pass, and then drag them back behind you in your wake.<snip>

 

Depending on (lack of) depth and channel width it can be that you heap up more water ahead of the boat, creating a trough at the stern .. the water than flows back into place once the boat has passed through ...

 

<snip>At one point, I had the centre rope tied round my waist and my heels dug into the ground, but still couldn't hold it right in because of the amount of traffic, and I'm far from being a slip of a girl.<snip>

... for your own safety, please don't ... let the boat go, use the engine ... but please don't wrap yourself in the ropes.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Graham!

[Natalie Graham]

Now, if at all possible, we'll use the chains to moor up, rather than the pins, just to be on the safe side.

Am I being thick, but what will you fasten the chains to? Why could you not fasten the ropes to the same thing?

[rgreg]

So, what then, is the correct procedure?

 

Is it the bow wave that causes the problems, or the prop drawing the water? If the first, you must slow down well in advance of a moored boat, because your bow wave (wake) is determined by your vessel's speed. If it is the later, than knocking of the trottle just before you reach the moored boat is enough (bit like going through a bridge 'ole).

 

My understanding is that the general rule is to slow down two boat lengths ahead of moored boats

[GUMPY]

At one point, I had the centre rope tied round my waist and my heels dug into the ground, but still couldn't hold it right in because of the amount of traffic, and I'm far from being a slip of a girl.

 

If we have problems like that I just grab the stern or bow rope and let the other end go free its wonderful to watch the other boaters faces at 37ton of barge slides across the cut to meet them, makes the effort of recovery afterwards worth while.

[ymu]

We've been thanked quite a lot by boaters and anglers for slowing down. Makes me wonder how unusual it must be...

 

For those who think it's just a courtesy for people on board, as mayall pointed out, it's not. It's far worse to have your pins pulled out whilst you're not there to deal with it. Sometimes it doesn't matter how well moored the boat is, the bank is too soft to withhold the pressure from speeding boats. There was a mooring pin bent 30 degrees on the first boat we rented - ain't no excuses for whoever caused that ...

 

If slowing down is a problem, the canals are not the place for you. If a group of moored boaters have a sign up, it's because speeding boats cause them problems. Those who think speeding past is OK when it suits them need to grow up a bit or choose another hobby.

[Nine of Hearts]

We've been thanked quite a lot by boaters and anglers for slowing down. Makes me wonder how unusual it must be...

 

Really? That is most unusual. Even Tom Jones would think so.

[Doorman]

That does not necessarily include a requirement to slow down.

Is there not an implicit assumption that boats will be moored in such a way as to not be damaged when passed by a boat travelling at or below the speed limit?

I took the OP's first post as labelling the owner of the badly moored boat as just as inconsiderate as the boats passing at speed...

 

 

Quite right. We take considerable time to pass moored boats at a reasonable pace, but it angers me when conforming to such low speed requests, to then encounter many of the moorings tethered so poorly. We are particularly careful when passing cruisers, given their fragile frames. If only they would reciprocate when speeding past our mooring.

 

Mike

[furnessvale]

Clearly you don't "get it".

 

The point of slowing down past moored boats ISN'T that if the boat is occupied, you will make it uncomfortable for the occupier.

 

The point is that if you go past a moored boat at speed, even an empty one, you risk pulling mooring pins, or throwing the contents of the boat about.

 

I have never understood those who won't slow down, or who only slow down "a bit". Easing off to tickover makes very little difference to the time it takes to pass, but it makes a big difference to the amount of damage that you do to other boats.

 

At the risk of alienating some of you, I have different "slow downs" that vary with the circumstances.

 

Obviously the first consideration is the depth and width of channel which will vary the pull enormously. Having taken that into consideration my next thought is the method of mooring and potential occupancy. I slow down most for occupied boats on mooring pins on the towpath. In general terms they have had the least opportunity to establish really good anchors. I slow down least for unoccupied permanently moored boats on linear offside moorings. They have had amply opportunity to establish firm anchors which should withstand a reasonable pull. They should also have virtually no slack so that pull cannot generate in the first place.

 

Unfortunately too many people treat mooring as a joke. I have seen permanently moored boats on slack 10ft lengths of "string" at right angles to the T studs and dollies, and the owners complain when the boat moves.

 

Unlike Dave, I think occupancy or otherwise is a valid factor for consideration. Whether a person will spill boiling water over themselves as you pass is far more important than whether a china ornament will slide off an unprotected shelf on what, after all, is a boat.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Doorman]

Should we slow down past boats moored in a winding hole?

 

 

No, simply offer them some sort of remedial medication that may just kick start their tiny brains into action.

 

Don't quite understand why a boat being empty means you don't need to slow down.

 

 

 

Those types of sign are more likely to make me speed up. The one that really gets me is when I am passing moored boats at tick over and then some boat has a sign in the window that says "What part of slow down do you not understand" I have seen that one a few times.

 

 

You will have done, it's on your boat

Edited August 13, 2010 by Doorman

[furnessvale]

There was a mooring pin bent 30 degrees on the first boat we rented - ain't no excuses for whoever caused that ...

 

The only way to bend a pin like that is to part drive it into very hard ground and then tie to the top using the eye for its wrong purpose. If the ground is soft enough for a pin to pull out, the pin will have been driven in to ground level in the first place (or it should have been).

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[ymu]

Really? That is most unusual. Even Tom Jones would think so.

Yes, really. By anglers alone, three times in the last few weeks - two of them with a remark about how rare it is that a boat does slow down for them.

 

Hire boaters may well not get told to slow down for anglers. But, as the poster above remarked, it's usually the private boats causing chaos in their wake by speeding past moored boats. Is this something to do with them always starting off from the same base and trying to extend their range by hurrying past rather than just chilling out a bit and enjoying the scenery?

[ditchcrawler]

At the risk of alienating some of you, I have different "slow downs" that vary with the circumstances.

 

Obviously the first consideration is the depth and width of channel which will vary the pull enormously. Having taken that into consideration my next thought is the method of mooring and potential occupancy. I slow down most for occupied boats on mooring pins on the towpath. In general terms they have had the least opportunity to establish really good anchors. I slow down least for unoccupied permanently moored boats on linear offside moorings. They have had amply opportunity to establish firm anchors which should withstand a reasonable pull. They should also have virtually no slack so that pull cannot generate in the first place.

 

Unfortunately too many people treat mooring as a joke. I have seen permanently moored boats on slack 10ft lengths of "string" at right angles to the T studs and dollies, and the owners complain when the boat moves.

 

Unlike Dave, I think occupancy or otherwise is a valid factor for consideration. Whether a person will spill boiling water over themselves as you pass is far more important than whether a china ornament will slide off an unprotected shelf on what, after all, is a boat.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I moor what I consider well on the offside of the South Oxford, My mooring bollards on the boat are slightly higher than the bank level. When boats speed past me the effect is to draw the bottom of the boat out into the canal and tip things out of the cupboards, off the stove etc. My boat does not surge back and forth or the deck move away from the bank. The only way to overcome this would be to have a mooring point on the base plate of the speeders to slow down.

[Night Hawk]

Don't quite understand why a boat being empty means you don't need to slow down.

 

There's no one on board to experience the gentle bobbing as a boat cruises past?

 

Anyhow...I'm here in Gas Street securely moored up as dozens of boats thunder past at full throttle..we're securely tied up and rock gently! Remind me again about slowing down past moored boats again...hold on I better go and make a sign...

 

A x

 

[Hairy-Neil]

Yes, really. By anglers alone, three times in the last few weeks - two of them with a remark about how rare it is that a boat does slow down for them.

 

I've had several anglers ask me to 'give it some welly' to stir up the swim.... There's no pleasing 'em...

[Nine of Hearts]

Yes, really. By anglers alone, three times in the last few weeks - two of them with a remark about how rare it is that a boat does slow down for them.

 

That are aghasting, they must be on prozac down your way. In my experience you have to pass about a hundred slowly and on their side before one ackowledges that you've done the right thing. It's why we so often get the "what's the right thing to do?" asked by the well-meaning. Because usually it's go past at 4mph, scowl-ignore. Go past at tickover on their side, scowl-ignore. Go past slowly with cheery wave, scowl-ignore. Go past naked doing handstands, scowl-ignore.