Inconsiderate boaters

[Timleech]

How is travelling at around walking pace akin to motor racing? The fact that I drive at 70mph on motorways to get where I am going and don't saunter along at 35mph does not malke me a crazed speed-freak anymore than someone who boats at the canal speed limit. The speed limit on canals is already a leisurely pace. At 4mph the scenery hardly flashes by so quickly you don't have time to see the blackberries or whatever, but just how long do you want to watch the same blackberry bush as you drift past it? Might there not be other equally interesting blackberry bushes further up the cut, or even something more interesting after that if you make a bit of progress to get to it. Just how much more peaceful and leisurely is 2mph than 4? What is it with this idea that the slower you go the better? I though the idea was to actually travel somewhere by boat, not engage in a kind of waterborne slow bicycle race. Is this why some boats never leave their marinas? Their owners have achieved the ultimate state of boating nirvana and now go so slowly they can boat without moving.

 

There are plenty of stretches of canal where 4mph would be excessive, with most boats, and in those stretches 2mph would certainly be more peaceful and leisurely.

All that is needed is common sense and consideration on the part of boaters, there are no 'fixed rules' for slowing down because every situation is different. Trouble is, common sense and consideration seem to both be in short supply.

 

Tim

[dor]

OK, so some people like to go slower than others. Nothing wrong with that as such. But why then do they insist on hogging the mid channel instead of slowing down and moving over to let another boat pass?

 

It's a bit like the car I saw on the M5 yesterday doing 69mph in the outside lane on a fairly open road.

[blackrose]

Of course, the problem is exacerbated by people tying up too loose - you can't go slow enough to avoid nudging any boat at all. But, the water level on some canals can change quite rapidy, leaving ropes loose until they can be tightened again.

 

Yes, I wasn't actually equating tight mooring ropes with mooring properly or securely. Once can moor up properly without having one's mooring ropes tight. I always leave a bit of slack to compensate for fluctuating water levels but that doesn't mean my boat will go crashing into an adjacent boat everytime another boat goes past.

[luctor et emergo]

Is this why some boats never leave their marinas? Their owners have achieved the ultimate state of boating nirvana and now go so slowly they can boat without moving.

 

 

:lol: :lol:

[Tiny]

That are aghasting, they must be on prozac down your way. In my experience you have to pass about a hundred slowly and on their side before one ackowledges that you've done the right thing. It's why we so often get the "what's the right thing to do?" asked by the well-meaning. Because usually it's go past at 4mph, scowl-ignore. Go past at tickover on their side, scowl-ignore. Go past slowly with cheery wave, scowl-ignore. Go past naked doing handstands, scowl-ignore.

 

On one canal where this used to happen now a lot actually smile - which is even more offputting. Then, chatting to one he told me that since the towpath became a cycleway a number of anglers had been attacked and often hurt by cyclists who not only demanded right of way but some even stopped and threw rods and stuff not on the path but on the edge in as they (from the town nearby) seemed to think anglers were evil for catching fish. Now anglers felt these were their big threat while, having seen boaters leap for their lives from cyclists they felt we are on their side against this lot.

[Tiny]

At the risk of alienating some of you, I have different "slow downs" that vary with the circumstances.

 

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

I agree. Originally - when there were not so many linear mooring ang a small number of continuous moorers I used to slow for every boat moored on either side. Then the numbers seemingly always moored in the same place began to grow and grow and on some canals you could be on tickover for hours passing them all.

 

At this stage I noticed an increased tendency of persons leaving their linear mooring and heading along the lines of other linear mooring to simple move off and then go along with no effort to slow - often overtaking muggins in their effort to get on. Indeed on one particuler canal with many miles of linear moorings I found that passing moored boats that locals actually travelled a good bit faster than I ever managed on empty deepish canals!

 

Slowly I changed to our present system that allows us to slow where we feel we should and not in other places.

 

Basically we slow for any boat obviously visiting and so moored on the towpath side be it hire, private or share.

 

On the other hand if we come on a known continuous moorer and there is no sign of life we slow a bit but not right down. As a lot of these blokes hide behind closed curtains or anything to block a view in we assume they want their privacy so pass quick (as it were).

 

At Linear offside moorings we keep our speed on as we figure they should be moored well enough not to have pins pulled out. But if we see a sign of life in the boat (as in fire, boat rocking or at an angle or car outside) we slow as though they were a moored tourist boat.

 

Fishermen we pass in the centre canal at a slower than cruise speed but if they hang their rods up rather than withdrawing (as most do) we head for the bank closest to them so as to not have the maggot dripping over us or find the hook at eye level as such bods care not a toss for our H&S and we don't trust them. (By heading close we figure we will be safer as they make sure the maggot doesn't drip over them and they also have to raise their rod well above the hook in eye level to clear the boat.)

[Timleech]

It's a bit like the car I saw on the M5 yesterday doing 69mph in the outside lane on a fairly open road.

 

Absolutely no excuse for that if the driver wasn't overtaking someone in the next lane.

 

Having said that, if you sat behind them for the whole of a seventy mile journey, you would lose less than a minute on travelling at the full legal limit for the whole journey

 

Tim

[Tiny]

Having hired a large number of different boats over the years I found tickover varied from 1 to 3mph (on the Oxford summit). Some of the old hires had a hull shape that gave them a really embarressing tickover speed - such that you had to cut out of gear to get them to seem to slow. Others from the same firm were built like bathtubs and, with the same engine barely managed to move on tickover.

 

Our present cheap boat has a hull shape that gives hardly any wash but will pull you pins out just as readily nas any other boat. And because of that shape maybe I found I can run it at 4+ on the Maccy or the Llangollen - and it will do the speed quite easily even though it draws more than 2' and the canal is hardly any deeper than the boat - I did try it a couple of times and its 30hp engine (50+ foot boat) was only at one third revs.

 

So speed depends on hull shape - wash ditto but the tendency to drag pins out seems not to be so connected. Incidentally I noticed those BW washless special tended to pull pins out quite well but also (no wash) tended to be driven faster which meant they had more tendency to pull pins than their cheaply designed cousins.

[Night Hawk]

I'm incandescent with rage I tell you...incandescent

 

(ahem)...following this thread's recent debate on the merits of speed and passing moored boats, I have spend a busy day cruising from Gas Street to the stop lock at the bottom of the Shroppie. I have chugged around 17 miles and passed a fair few boats...I passed a boat moored up inbetween the reeds...I won't mention it's name yet.....I was chugging along at 850 revs....a little over my tickover...but not much more....Noticing the name of the moored boat and thinking of it's sacred overtones, this loud screeching voice and red wrinkled head popped out of it's cetre doors and shreiked at me..."Where's the fire..."

 

Rather caught me be surprise...thinking that I had drifted off into a soggy day dream (it was pouring down), I checked my revs and, as usual, 850....a little faster than a snail's pace! I turned around and informed the irate little troll that I was indeed virtually ticking over.... I invited the wailing banshee to join me on the stern to see....and on he carried..."bloody inconsiderate boaters......amateur....etc"

 

Realising he must be loosely Christian, I yelled " God bless you....." to which he seemed to explode...fortunately by this time I was out of earshot!

 

The further I chugged away from the cantankerous gremlin, I kept feeling how that little man had NO right to shout at passing boaters like that!

 

Part of me wanted to reach for the grappling hook and cleave his wretched head from his vitriolic body....I relished that thought in my head as I heard him bellow at another boat that was behind me!

 

I do worry that if he carries on shouting at passing boaters, one day may be his "last supper"!

 

Calmer now...

 

How do you cope with unreasonable nutters on the cut?

 

A x

[Guest]

How do you cope with unreasonable nutters on the cut?

 

Plan revenge.....that's what we did...

 

We had a similar experience on the L&L in August 2009 - we passed a boat moored just before Skipton going west from Silsden when a similarly aggressive female troll vented her anger at us from her boat that was clad in enough fenders to float a battleship.

 

It was clear to us she stationed herself on her stern under pram hood at the same time every Saturday to vent her spleen at any unfortunate hire boat dispatched from up the cut at around the same time every week.

 

We were crawling past her at the time.

 

So we spent the whole week plotting how we were going to sink her on our way back or at the very least planned what we were going to shout back at her if she repeated her rather pathetic performance -

 

problem was when we passed on the way back she was no where to be seen....didn't stop some of the crew hurling a few expletives though...

[Night Hawk]

Plan revenge.....that's what we did...

 

Funny thing was that around 1000 yards further up the cut was this boat's mooring...one of those tastefully planted with lovely shrubs, festooned with those dreadful 99p shop glowing LED lights...I so had the urge to torch his lovely garden shed with a can of petrol I don't keep on my boat!

 

Alas I will plot my revenge...'cause we turn around just past the pub and return to Autherly Junction to head north...I might have some mischief.....

 

A x

[twbm]

Is this why some boats never leave their marinas? Their owners have achieved the ultimate state of boating nirvana and now go so slowly they can boat without moving.

 

Tantric Boating?

[twbm]

Night Hawk,

 

There is often a presumption on the part of the shouter that you will keep going no matter what. Going to hard reverse whilst feigning hardness of hearing is usually enough to have them down inside with the hatches shut, however if time permits and you have the inclination there is then the opportunity to come alongside their boat as gently as you see fit, and engage in meaningful discussion. Remember to be the epitome of politeness and see them squirm.

[Doorman]

There are plenty of stretches of canal where 4mph would be excessive, with most boats, and in those stretches 2mph would certainly be more peaceful and leisurely.

All that is needed is common sense and consideration on the part of boaters, there are no 'fixed rules' for slowing down because every situation is different. Trouble is, common sense and consideration seem to both be in short supply.Tim

 

 

Too right. If some of the characters we meet on the cut were light bulbs, they'd be dim!

 

Quite

 

now remind me where the anglers sit in this division of hunting for food or for the fun of making animals suffer

 

 

Eh up, I'm going to tell Graham you said that!

[Tiny]

I'm incandescent with rage I tell you...incandescent

 

(ahem)...following this thread's recent debate on the merits of speed and passing moored boats, I have spend a busy day cruising from Gas Street to the stop lock at the bottom of the Shroppie. I have chugged around 17 miles and passed a fair few boats...I passed a boat moored up inbetween the reeds...I won't mention it's name yet.....I was chugging along at 850 revs....a little over my tickover...but not much more....Noticing the name of the moored boat and thinking of it's sacred overtones, this loud screeching voice and red wrinkled head popped out of it's cetre doors and shreiked at me..."Where's the fire..."

 

Rather caught me be surprise...thinking that I had drifted off into a soggy day dream (it was pouring down), I checked my revs and, as usual, 850....a little faster than a snail's pace! I turned around and informed the irate little troll that I was indeed virtually ticking over.... I invited the wailing banshee to join me on the stern to see....and on he carried..."bloody inconsiderate boaters......amateur....etc"

 

Realising he must be loosely Christian, I yelled " God bless you....." to which he seemed to explode...fortunately by this time I was out of earshot!

 

The further I chugged away from the cantankerous gremlin, I kept feeling how that little man had NO right to shout at passing boaters like that!

 

Part of me wanted to reach for the grappling hook and cleave his wretched head from his vitriolic body....I relished that thought in my head as I heard him bellow at another boat that was behind me!

 

I do worry that if he carries on shouting at passing boaters, one day may be his "last supper"!

 

Calmer now...

 

How do you cope with unreasonable nutters on the cut?

 

A x

 

This occured to me with BW. I approached at tickover to be screamed at to slow down. So I slammed it into reverse and stopped opposite them having chucked them all over the place. Then I asked what they wanted. It seems they wanted for me to go away. The next boat passed them at speed with not a word said.

[system 4-50]

My normal travel speed is very slow when travelling in pretty places with no deadlines on destination or finish times, and medium-ish otherwise. If going slow then I am careful to help craft to overtake me at the next opportunity. (Last time to be met with "no thanks, we're winding in 400 yds"!) I may speed up if overtaking is not possible.

 

My intention is to not disturb people who are aboard their boats and not to put any unoccupied boat at risk of having its mooring mechanism dislodged or damaged, assuming that it has been done as efficiently as possible for the available bankside conditions, whilst taking advantage of the canal's primary purpose, the movement of boats.

 

I slow right down for:

All moored boats between 20:00 and 08:00. They may be occupied despite appearances.

Moored boats that look as if they are travelling but have made a stop.

 

I slow down less for permanently moored boats that look unoccupied. I assume that they are well secured. I have little sympathy for boats on EOG moorings with the big slow down signs. If you have the good fortune to have such a mooring then the least you can do is provide it with robust mooring apparatus that can withstand regular traffic. If you're aboard I'll slow down.

 

I slow down less for boats that are parked with 200ft gaps for mile after mile.

 

I slow down past boats where navigation could become difficult.

 

I may actually speed up past boats moored by bridge holes if it simplifies the traffic, for example if I can slip through between two (non-towing!) oncoming boats with minimum disruption to the three of us. A boat moored by a bridge or other pinch point can expect no less.

 

I modify the above if canal conditions need me to do so, narrow/shallow etc.

 

So my basic philosophy is, if you're navigating the system but have temporarily stopped then you deserve the maximum consideration. If you're really a houseboat then the canals' function as a transport system has precedence.

 

Am I being unreasonable? (Most of my canaling so far has been on wide canals.)

 

PS I slow down past Tupperware so that I have time to check if they are having a party...

[NB Alnwick]

Those boaters who strive to cruise at (as near as is physically possible) the maximum speed limit often fail to appreciate that in so doing, they may well be causing hidden damage to the canal banks and the wildlife that lives there. This would have been less of a consideration when canals were operated for profit as a means of transport but things are different now and money for maintenance is tight. Serious damage could deprive us all of the canals and wildlife that we love and, under these circumstances, such selfish behaviour is hardly considerate.

 

I also maintain that most of us use the canals for our leisure - in these circumstances, we really do not need people who get 'wound up' just because they do not like the way we conduct ourselves or our boating hobbies. Why should a boater get shouted at or threatened by the behavior of another? I was shouted at and sworn at today by someone who, presumably, recognised the name of our boat from the forum and decided that he had a right to complain to me (quite rudely) about the behaviour of another forum member that he had encountered - it didn't spoil my day because, as soon as I realised that he was not angry with me directly, I was ably to laugh off his comments and continue on my way.

 

For those who find that boating incidents can produce a feeling of being "incandescent with rage", may I suggest that the problem may not, necessarily, be external.

 

What is the matter with these people?

 

Why can they not enjoy there boating without treating it as some sort of stressful contest?

 

We encountered similar selfish and inconsiderate behaviour from a small group of rude and loud individuals at the Cropredy Festival - when most of us in the vicinity were trying very hard to enjoy the performances that we had paid to see and listen to, these people had their backs to the stage and were talking, swearing and laughing so loudly that, for me at least, it spoiled what might otherwise have been a much more enjoyable festival.

 

Surely the waterways and indeed, the whole world, would be so much nicer if we could all try to be less selfish and more considerate towards each other. This also means accepting that others can and do make mistakes; that they may not have tied their boat correctly and that passing moored boats (or approaching blind bends and bridges etc.) always requires skilful assessment and a carefully measured reaction to each situation.

[Night Hawk]

Night Hawk,

 

There is often a presumption on the part of the shouter that you will keep going no matter what. Going to hard reverse whilst feigning hardness of hearing is usually enough to have them down inside with the hatches shut, however if time permits and you have the inclination there is then the opportunity to come alongside their boat as gently as you see fit, and engage in meaningful discussion. Remember to be the epitome of politeness and see them squirm.

 

Well...there was an end to this tale which has left me a little agog!

 

Who should chug past this morning at an incredibly slow pace...prop still moving....was the aforementioned little man on his shiney little boat...

 

I popped my head out of the hatch, and in my bestest calmest teachers voice told him I had a real problem with his attitude and questioned his right to speak to people in such a way...and did he stick his head out of the window when driving down the motorway shouting at all the other cars overtaking him...

 

His wife, also with him at the stern said...Go on....I told you..go on...

 

and...

 

and...

 

he appologised profusely explaining that it was his 60th birthday and he wasn't coping very well...

 

So there we go...

 

 

Happilly moored up in Brewood....oh those church bells...must be time for Evensong!

 

[Guest]

he appologised profusely explaining that it was his 60th birthday and he wasn't coping very well...

 

Old fart...

[gaggle]

It was explained to me on this site many ,many moons ago that when moored up you can tell when a boat is approaching some time before it arrives " john orentas?", so why anyone can be caught by suprise by a speeding boat to the extent that they spill hot tea on themselves i dont know , i would think that when i was told this useful bit of infromation they referred to boats going at normal speed so a speeding boat would i think give a "louder" message.

Edited August 15, 2010 by gaggle

[Maffi]

I think there should be keel hauling

 

 

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8GlWYXT9zzg/TGMy_qNw...6029%5B5%5D.jpg

Edited August 15, 2010 by Maffi

[Guest]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8GlWYXT9zzg/TGMy_qNw...6029%5B5%5D.jpg

 

Edit because Maffi stole my pirate reference joke,.......

Edited August 15, 2010 by NB No Deadlines

[mayalld]

Can some one explain "speeding boats" and "thundering past" what are they doing 10 mph ??? If I speed in my car I go over the speed limit ......

 

Please read the quote from the BW bye-laws.

[alan_fincher]

Those boaters who strive to cruise at (as near as is physically possible) the maximum speed limit often fail to appreciate that in so doing, they may well be causing hidden damage to the canal banks and the wildlife that lives there.

 

Graham,

 

This is a recurrent theme from you whenever the topic of speed arises.

 

What is not clear to me is how you think the steerer of a boat that is not creating any significant wash, let alone a breaking one, can judge how, despite this, they may be doing the damage of which you speak.

 

You say elsewhere that an experienced boater will know by examining conditions what is an appropriate speed for any bit of canal, (OK my wording, but something like that!).

 

So how would I know that damage might be being done, if the usual indications are not present ? Clearly there is no simple formula that gives an ideal speed, as it will depend not just on the canal, but on the boat.

 

So far as I am aware, BW offer no specific advice on this topic, other than the "don't make a breaking wash" guideline. (Happy to be corrected, if they do, though).

 

Of course I accept that if you don't move a boat at all, there is probably less chance of causing impact than if you do, but is it automatically the case that (for example) travelling at 3 mph in a given boat is more damaging that travelling at 2 mph ?

 

When you say wildlife, of what are you speaking, mostly, please, (e.g. animals or plants), and what is the likely invisible damage, if a boat is creating minimal wash ?

[sueb]

Moorhens and eggs being swept out of their nests.

It doesn't do them any good.

Sue