Ellesmere Port Boat Museum

[Tim Lewis]

Visited Ellsemere Port Boat Museum for the first time in many years on Sunday. I must say that I was pleasantly surprised how good the museum was given the recent negative publicity. Hopefully the recent changes and grants will enable the progress made to the boat restoration backlog to continue.

 

Some pictures:

 

http://timlewis.smugmug.com/Boats/Ellesmer...30_2QCYS#P-1-10

 

Tim

Edited August 16, 2010 by DHutch

[Ray T]

Tim, some wonderful pictures, thanks for sharing.

[twbm]

Nice to see Scorpio survives - helped tow her up there when I was a teenager.

[DHutch]

Yeah, it could all be a lot worse couldnt it.

- Personally, having not been since i was about 8, i enjoyed my visit at easter a lot.

 

 

Daniel

[Speedwheel]

Am I the only one who is disgusted by the shocking and shameful state of the boats.

 

Never mind all the good intentions of restoration. They should not have got in this state in the first place.

[Paul H]

Yeah, it could all be a lot worse couldnt it.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Actually could it?

 

It was set up as a Boat Museum and the one thing they have neglected for 30 years are the boats. Obviously work is thankfully now being carried out on the iron narrow boats but these are "quick wins" and dozens of examples exist in private ownership anyway. The tragedy is the wooden wide boats, most of which are the last of their class in which no salvageable timber probably now exists and the rebuild cost are now so enormous (over £250K each) that it is doubtful that it will ever take place. Thsi work is almost certainly way beyond the capabilities of the newly set up heritage boat yard.

 

Having said that things are now moving in the right direction but it is at least 20 years too late for most of the boats.

 

 

Paul

[1-Cylinder Wonder]

Hell that is a sad sight!

 

Shiny Joshers abound - what for?

 

Gifford should be applauded.

 

Most of the rest makes me want to cry.

 

I remember the engines being in steam. Can't see that happening again!

 

I am as guilty though of not having visited and not contributed. No money = Rotten boat.

 

John

[BlueStringPudding]

You forgot to photograph my rhinoceros!?!?!?

[MoominPapa]

I remember the engines being in steam. Can't see that happening again!

That was my first impression too, but then I thought back to the early eighties when my mum worked at the Boat Museum and remembered that there were two engines. The engine in the foreground of that photo is the one which wasn't restored back then. The one which steams (or at least used to) is behind it.

 

MP.

Edited August 18, 2010 by MoominPapa

[Natalie Graham]

It was set up as a Boat Museum and the one thing they have neglected for 30 years are the boats.

 

Looking at some of those pictures it is like having a scrap yard and calling it a motor museum. They might not have the money for restoration but there is no excuse for boats having trees growing out of them.

[1-Cylinder Wonder]

The engine is probably fine but I imagine the boiler probably failed to get a boiler certificate and probably needs a significant spend to make it servicable.

 

I would imagine Tim Young may know what sort of state they are in?

 

John

[MoominPapa]

The engine is probably fine but I imagine the boiler probably failed to get a boiler certificate and probably needs a significant spend to make it servicable.

 

In the eighties the engine was steamed using a small vertical boiler "round the back". The big Lancashire boilers weren't in use. Did they ever get them into commission?

 

MP.

[the grinch]

Am I the only one who is disgusted by the shocking and shameful state of the boats.

 

Never mind all the good intentions of restoration. They should not have got in this state in the first place.

 

no i share your view. they should let the boats go to someone else if they can't look after them.

[TimYoung]

As far as I am aware the original boilers are not in a bad state shell-wise. It has been suggested that that one of the local volunteers is working towards their re-instatement.

 

As regards the wooden wide boats it has always been difficult to find external funding for vegetable, i.e. temporary, exhibits.

 

Tim

[no.341]

Actually could it?

 

It was set up as a Boat Museum and the one thing they have neglected for 30 years are the boats. Obviously work is thankfully now being carried out on the iron narrow boats but these are "quick wins" and dozens of examples exist in private ownership anyway. The tragedy is the wooden wide boats, most of which are the last of their class in which no salvageable timber probably now exists and the rebuild cost are now so enormous (over £250K each) that it is doubtful that it will ever take place. Thsi work is almost certainly way beyond the capabilities of the newly set up heritage boat yard.

 

Having said that things are now moving in the right direction but it is at least 20 years too late for most of the boats.

 

 

Paul

I am shocked at the state of the wooden boats, and why have 3 joshers! 2 could be sold to help to finance the repair of the rare boats that are in desperate need of it. the other most striking thing about the photos is that the place is completely empty! not a soul to be seen.

 

James

[Speedwheel]

and why have 3 joshers! 2 could be sold to help to finance the repair of the rare boats that are in desperate need of it.

 

Why have any? It is not as though there is a lack of good examples.

 

They should be concentrating on the boats that are less likely to find owners will or able to take them on

[BlueStringPudding]

I am shocked at the state of the wooden boats, and why have 3 joshers! 2 could be sold to help to finance the repair of the rare boats that are in desperate need of it. the other most striking thing about the photos is that the place is completely empty! not a soul to be seen.

 

James

 

I'm not surprised. Ellesmere Port isn't a nice place to be. Later in the day it's not a safe place to be either. And I certainly wouldn't moor my boat too close to EP - there are breakins even in the boats moored in the basin close to the museum. The museum itself is stunning however with no facilities for boaters to lure them farther up the canal than the Frog & Nightingale in Chester, few boats pass through this way. If they sold diesel I'd have spent much more time down this end - as it is it's better to be within pootling distance of Tattenhall. I moored and pootled on the stretch between Chester and EP for some weeks mid-summer and barely any boats passed me in either direction.

[DHutch]

Actually could it?

 

The tragedy is the wooden wide boats, most of which are the last of their class in which no salvageable timber probably now exists and the rebuild cost are now so enormous (over £250K each) that it is doubtful that it will ever take place. Thsi work is almost certainly way beyond the capabilities of the newly set up heritage boat yard.

 

Having said that things are now moving in the right direction but it is at least 20 years too late for most of the boats.

Ok, granted they have done very badly in that respect, but in terms of a day out, its not a bad one, what my point.

 

 

Daniel

[Mike C]

Whilst I share the passion and compassion shown for the boats at the museum, there is a lot of words like ‘Shocked’ and ‘Appalled’ used in this thread. None of these boats deteriorated overnight. They have been attended to by very many paid and unpaid hours over many years but with few exceptions they have been continually slipping backwards for a very long time.

 

I am really pleased that there are many folk associated with and around the museum that are actually delivering efforts to keep these boats there for others to moan about and criticise.

 

There are massive political issues associated with museum funding generally, whatever they are exhibiting which in no small part is associated with gate and visitor numbers. Shame on those that offer criticism but have not visited Ellesmere Port in recent times.

 

I am thrilled by the resent developments and enthused efforts that have seen a direction change in the fortunes of the collection and would invite those that can, to assist by joining the Boat Museum Society and delivering volunteer time, and those that can not put in time can always just deliver financial support, even if that is simply visiting the place occasionally and encouraging others to do so also. The BMS also has a voice on the management committee of The Boat Museum and so structured criticism can and does influence future policy.

 

I am not directly related to the changes that have occurred but applaud them and those who have facilitated them and my condemnation is for those that have, and are still doing nothing. I believe that criticism on a forum such as this from the comfort of the warm office or home is rather too easy and likely to do little for the craft and much more for the self-esteem of those posting them.

 

Best regards to all - Mike

[Natalie Graham]

None of these boats deteriorated overnight.

Might be more defensible if they had.

 

I haven't done anything at all to help these boats, but then I haven't set myself up as a boat museum either. If they have been "attended to", how come they have trees growing out of them? I'll bet the gift shop and the tea room don't have trees growing through the floor. Even if the resources have not been there to restore them there is no excuse for them looking like they have been abandoned.

 

I haven't visited the museum either, for one thing it is a thirteen hour round trip and there isn't a lot of incentive when the exhibits I would go to see have been left for years to rot.

 

If you are delighted by the "change in fortune for the collection" then, presumably, you also believe the previous situation was not satisfactory, as you also say these boats have been continually slipping backwards for a very long time. You can hardly expect people to feel the museum has done a good job with these boats when you see the photos that have been posted on this thread. Why has it taken until now for the museum to act to change the fortune of the exhibits, when for many there is probably little, if anything, of the original which is salvageable?

[Pluto]

 

If you are delighted by the "change in fortune for the collection" then, presumably, you also believe the previous situation was not satisfactory, as you also say these boats have been continually slipping backwards for a very long time. You can hardly expect people to feel the museum has done a good job with these boats when you see the photos that have been posted on this thread. Why has it taken until now for the museum to act to change the fortune of the exhibits, when for many there is probably little, if anything, of the original which is salvageable?

I have been photographing the remains of wooden wide river and canal boats for almost forty years, comparing methods of construction across Britain and Europe. Today there are very few which can provide significant details of construction without extremely expensive excavation work. All have deteriorated rapidly in the time I have been looking at them. Whether their condition is satisfactory or not, the wooden wide boats in the museum would have disappeared years ago had they not been moved to Ellesmere Port. At least there is still the possibility of recording them at a reasonable cost, even if funding is not available for their restoration. Recording is one important, but often forgotten, aspect of a museum. Politicians certainly don't like it as you can't put a monetary value on it, hence finance for the recording side of many museums has been severely curtailed over the last twenty years or so. The Boat Museum has always suffered from lack of money, and the government will not acknowledge it as a national museum as that requires them to provide funding. People would do better writing to complain about this lack of funding to their MP than making easy criticism on the forum. As one US president said - I ask not what your canal museum has done for you, but what have you done for your canal museum. Support them or loose them.

[the grinch]

Whilst I share the passion and compassion shown for the boats at the museum, there is a lot of words like ‘Shocked’ and ‘Appalled’ used in this thread. None of these boats deteriorated overnight. They have been attended to by very many paid and unpaid hours over many years but with few exceptions they have been continually slipping backwards for a very long time.

 

I am really pleased that there are many folk associated with and around the museum that are actually delivering efforts to keep these boats there for others to moan about and criticise.

 

There are massive political issues associated with museum funding generally,

Shame on those that offer criticism but have not visited Ellesmere Port in recent times.

to assist by joining the Boat Museum Society and delivering volunteer time, and those that can not put in time can always just deliver financial support, even if that is simply visiting the place occasionally and encouraging others to do so also.

I am not directly related to the changes that have occurred but applaud them and those who have facilitated them and my condemnation is for those that have, and are still doing nothing. I believe that criticism on a forum such as this from the comfort of the warm office or home is rather too easy and likely to do little for the craft and much more for the self-esteem of those posting them.

 

Best regards to all - Mike

 

no matter how you gloss it over the boats ARE A DISGRACE and if i was in charge i would have taken steps to at least tidy them up, something the museum has not done in a long time.

i have put in quite a few hours at the museum in the past so have done something to help, but living at the opposite end of the country makes it difficult to give more.

coupled with my heavy commitment at the wey and arun canal i cannot do more, we try as much as possible to maintain all we have restored as well as advancing the restoration of the derelict parts.

so the warm office / home is hardly a reason for lack of effort in keeping up appearances by the staff at Ellesmere, piss poor management is the reason the museum is in the state it is. the state of the canal is BW responsibility but the boats and the museum are not and as such the management need to get out there and clean the place up otherwise people will not bother to visit.

 

as for folk associated they are doing what exactly to keep the boats there because to me it looks all they are doing to keep them there is leaving them sunk, full of water and silt!! hardly takes any effort at all!

 

Might be more defensible if they had.

 

I haven't done anything at all to help these boats, but then I haven't set myself up as a boat museum either. If they have been "attended to", how come they have trees growing out of them? I'll bet the gift shop and the tea room don't have trees growing through the floor. Even if the resources have not been there to restore them there is no excuse for them looking like they have been abandoned.

 

I haven't visited the museum either, for one thing it is a thirteen hour round trip and there isn't a lot of incentive when the exhibits I would go to see have been left for years to rot.

 

 

 

exactly the points i made above

[Natalie Graham]

At least there is still the possibility of recording them at a reasonable cost, even if funding is not available for their restoration.

 

So even recording them hasn't happened yet then? Just what have the Boat Museum been doing with them for however long it is they have had them?

[Pluto]

So even recording them hasn't happened yet then? Just what have the Boat Museum been doing with them for however long it is they have had them?

Have you written to the Museum or to your MP to complain? It is very simple to argue here, and that's what the forum is for, but it is a bit of a pointless exercise - and I've done a lot of that over the years - but if you really feel outraged, then you need to start sending your criticism to the right people. It can be a bit soul-destroying, but is far more effective than any complaint here.

[Mike C]

So even recording them hasn't happened yet then? Just what have the Boat Museum been doing with them for however long it is they have had them?

 

It is happening and has happened to a number of craft, its costly and time consuming and in some cases requires the craft to be ashore, which is a difficulty with many of these craft even in the structural condition they were in when they arrived at the museum.

 

When you visit the museum next you will be able to see what is and has been done for yourself and what is actually going on, and not what the two dimensional photos from others suggest is not happening, - This is a case where actually the photos are not the full picture.

 

Please don’t be under an illusion that any of these timber craft were delivered to the museum in a structural condition very much better than they are in now, in the main they were not however superficially bright some may have appeared. We were involved in caring for several of the wide timber boats in the 1970’s when the museum site sill hadn’t been secured or decided upon. It was a continual task to keep the craft afloat. At that time common belief was that keeping them afloat was the best way of preserving them, it is now known not necessarily to be so and that where the craft is struggling to remain afloat it is often better preserved (deteriorates further at a slower rate?) by being submerged.

 

If you look at the very familiar scenario seen over the years, and particular in the 60’s but more 70’s and very early 80’s, and even still occasionally to the present day where; A private individual has a timber craft, wide or narrow, its shot, it requires 10’s or 100’s of thousands of pounds spending on it. The owner can not afford to do this so one of four things usually happens, either it is abandoned and BW remove and dispose of it, at one time in a bonfire but now into skips. Or the owner disposes of it in a bonfire themselves or it is taken on by some one with the money energy and time to return it back to a maintainable condition or a full restoration. Or, as in the case of these craft it is donated to the museum. With this latter situation the museum in now being lambasted on this forum and elsewhere for the fact that it to doesn’t have the recourses to restore the craft. Should it have refused to take the liability on and allowed the craft to be broken up?

 

I can not agree with you more, it is a tragedy that the craft are not all in better condition and it would be excellent if they were all fully restored and pristine, especially if that included the retention of the unique features that the craft has acquired over years rather than the ‘as delivered from the builder’ restoration. But I believe you are misplaced to be so ready to decide that blame is in order and where it lies as I am very shore that were you to have gathered more information on the matter first you would have seen that what your poorly informed delivery of blame and responsibility from a distance is in danger of doing is demoralising the very people who are trying to make happen what you want to see.

 

I agree with Pluto, contact your MP and the distributors of funding, it is a yet to be fully reversed policy that provides some funding available for craft refurbishment where there is significant historical importance but funding to maintain them is not so available. Support the museum and others in their quest to see this conundrum solved and then many more things we all seem agreed upon are much more achievable.