Breasting up..???

[alan_fincher]

I hope I never get in the dock when you're on the Jury.

She's an obvious speeder !

 

String her up !

[Hairy-Neil]

She's an obvious speeder !

 

String her up !

 

And as she's got 'previous' she's obviously in the wrong this time....

[cotswoldsman]

Between 9 to 2 narrowboats yes, cruisers are wider (in general) than a narrowboat. What do you suggest, ramming them in the middle so they fit?

 

I am currently trawling through the Byelaws for the Severn and as yet have found no where that states the lock keeper has the right to make you breast a narrowboat onto a cruiser, nor that he/she has the right to make you moor up prior or after locking through.

 

You have to obey their orders in the lock, i.e move forward, engines off etc. but nowhere does it mention you have to follow their orders preceeding the locks.

 

Plenty of room for a cruiser in the middle. You just keep trawling I have told you what the BW signs say or do you want to call me a liar as well today!!

[cotswoldsman]

Between 9 to 2 narrowboats yes, cruisers are wider (in general) than a narrowboat. What do you suggest, ramming them in the middle so they fit?

 

I am currently trawling through the Byelaws for the Severn and as yet have found no where that states the lock keeper has the right to make you breast a narrowboat onto a cruiser, nor that he/she has the right to make you moor up prior or after locking through.

 

You have to obey their orders in the lock, i.e move forward, engines off etc. but nowhere does it mention you have to follow their orders preceeding the locks.

 

 

Save you trawling for to long

 

QUOTE

 

24. (1) At any lock, which is operated by staff provided by the

Commission for that purpose, the masters of all vessels in the

vicinity of such lock shall obey such directions as the lock-keeper

or other authorised officer may give.

UNQUOTE

 

Just in case you don't realise VICINITY also means before entering lock

 

Here is the link to to the bye laws covering The Gloucester and Sharpness Canal and River Severn

Link

Edited July 15, 2010 by cotswoldsman

[Chertsey]

He's a drug dealer, he looks like one. He's a thief he looks like one. He's a Paedo, he looks like one! I hope I never get in the dock when you're on the Jury.

Come on Neil, we all make instant judgements. It's our experience subconsciously bypassing the conscious thought process. OK, you can't tell by looking whether someone is one of the above (well, not without fail) but you can get a pretty good idea of whether or not you'll like them.

 

I also would prefer someone who wanted to breast up to me to wait to be invited; it's a recognition that a. it is my boat and my space and my prerogative, and b. that I am a reasonable and pleasant person who is happy to help out a soul in distress and meet nice new people into the bargain. If on the other hand someone takes it as their right to breast up, or puts me under pressure by asking, then they're probably not such a nice person and I wouldn't feel comfortable with them.

[Bones]

Come on Neil, we all make instant judgements. It's our experience subconsciously bypassing the conscious thought process. OK, you can't tell by looking whether someone is one of the above (well, not without fail) but you can get a pretty good idea of whether or not you'll like them.

 

 

 

I have noticed that more people have breasted up to me since my pirate flag has disappeared out of the window with the welcome moor along side sticker in.

[steelaway]

Come on Neil, we all make instant judgements. It's our experience subconsciously bypassing the conscious thought process. OK, you can't tell by looking whether someone is one of the above (well, not without fail) but you can get a pretty good idea of whether or not you'll like them.

 

I also would prefer someone who wanted to breast up to me to wait to be invited; it's a recognition that a. it is my boat and my space and my prerogative, and b. that I am a reasonable and pleasant person who is happy to help out a soul in distress and meet nice new people into the bargain. If on the other hand someone takes it as their right to breast up, or puts me under pressure by asking, then they're probably not such a nice person and I wouldn't feel comfortable with them.

 

 

Hi

 

I just dont understand this attitude

Am I to assume that I sit mid stream until you wander up onto the deck to give me an appraisal and decide whether you like look of me or not.

If not, would you just ignore me and leave me to my own devices in an emergency.

I dont want to have to breast up but there are times when its unaviodable and I wouldn't hesitate in allowing it at any time - to any one.

Its only for one night - a few hours at the worst.

By the way - I would ask - and I am quite a nice person, but just not possible by your reasoning.

 

Alex

[Naughty Cal]

Hi

 

I just dont understand this attitude

Am I to assume that I sit mid stream until you wander up onto the deck to give me an appraisal and decide whether you like look of me or not.

If not, would you just ignore me and leave me to my own devices in an emergency.

I dont want to have to breast up but there are times when its unaviodable and I wouldn't hesitate in allowing it at any time - to any one.

Its only for one night - a few hours at the worst.

By the way - I would ask - and I am quite a nice person, but just not possible by your reasoning.

 

Alex

 

Apparently there is no need. Just take Severn Lockie with you and you will be fine. Moor wherever he tells you to.

 

To those who obey lockies every wish, what would you do if he told you to moor on the weir?

[magpie patrick]

Apparently there is no need. Just take Severn Lockie with you and you will be fine. Moor wherever he tells you to.

 

To those who obey lockies every wish, what would you do if he told you to moor on the weir?

 

 

Personally I'd question his judgement but BW as a government body have a requirement to act reasonably. However, if you are first in with a tupperware, and then refuse to let a narrow boat breast up, the keeper is within his rights to refuse to lock you through

 

The trick on the Severn, where the locks are huge, is for the fibreglass boat to hang back and wait until the steel narrow boats are in, the Lock keeper won't mind that. What they tend to do is put you where the water would put you anyway when ascending, in Diglis large lock for example, they always put the first boat on the right hand wall when going up, and then breast up outwards. I asked the lock keeper why and he said that if you try and stay on the left hand wall the force of water will put you on the right hand one anyway unless you actually clamp the boat to the wall.

 

Gloucester lock is a giggle as well as not only is it long and wide but it's bloody deep and even going the paddles pull the boat around a bit.

[romarni123]

Personally I'd question his judgement but BW as a government body have a requirement to act reasonably. However, if you are first in with a tupperware, and then refuse to let a narrow boat breast up, the keeper is within his rights to refuse to lock you through

 

The trick on the Severn, where the locks are huge, is for the fibreglass boat to hang back and wait until the steel narrow boats are in, the Lock keeper won't mind that. What they tend to do is put you where the water would put you anyway when ascending, in Diglis large lock for example, they always put the first boat on the right hand wall when going up, and then breast up outwards. I asked the lock keeper why and he said that if you try and stay on the left hand wall the force of water will put you on the right hand one anyway unless you actually clamp the boat to the wall.

 

Gloucester lock is a giggle as well as not only is it long and wide but it's bloody deep and even going the paddles pull the boat around a bit.

 

Even better when the Ollie Cromwell comes round the bend

[Evo]

Personally, I would like BW and EA to distribute more of the "Welcome, moor alongside" signs. Boaters who are happy to be breasted up to can display them, the rest won't.

 

I bet you would......personally I would prefer it the other way round so that normal people could avoid those that might be shall we say less than welcoming. I would like the sign to say "BREASTS NOT WELCOME" or similar.

[Naughty Cal]

Personally I'd question his judgement but BW as a government body have a requirement to act reasonably. However, if you are first in with a tupperware, and then refuse to let a narrow boat breast up, the keeper is within his rights to refuse to lock you through

 

The trick on the Severn, where the locks are huge, is for the fibreglass boat to hang back and wait until the steel narrow boats are in, the Lock keeper won't mind that. What they tend to do is put you where the water would put you anyway when ascending, in Diglis large lock for example, they always put the first boat on the right hand wall when going up, and then breast up outwards. I asked the lock keeper why and he said that if you try and stay on the left hand wall the force of water will put you on the right hand one anyway unless you actually clamp the boat to the wall.

 

Gloucester lock is a giggle as well as not only is it long and wide but it's bloody deep and even going the paddles pull the boat around a bit.

 

Hang on though, there are some on here who reckon you are within your rights to not allow someone to raft up to you. Whos authority is greater, the boat owner or the lock keeper?

 

Personally if someone wants to raft to me regardless of their craft they can, but should any damage occur they are liable for that. If a narrowboat damages a cruiser by rafting alongside on the say so of the lock keeper it is still the responsibility of the narrowboat master to pay for the damage.

[mayalld]

Hi

 

I just dont understand this attitude

Am I to assume that I sit mid stream until you wander up onto the deck to give me an appraisal and decide whether you like look of me or not.

If not, would you just ignore me and leave me to my own devices in an emergency.

I dont want to have to breast up but there are times when its unaviodable and I wouldn't hesitate in allowing it at any time - to any one.

Its only for one night - a few hours at the worst.

By the way - I would ask - and I am quite a nice person, but just not possible by your reasoning.

 

Alex

 

This is where it gets tricky!

 

I have alluded to this problem before as the "do you mind if I smoke?" question.

 

The issue is that once the question is asked, the boater already there is on the back foot. Does he simply say "no", and risk being lambasted on some public forum as a grumpy old man? Does he feel it necessary to justify his stance in some way, when in truth simply not wanting neighbours (however nice they may be) is fair enough.

 

It actually comes down to etiquette. Politeness demands that if I want something, I should ask in a way that allows the person being asked to decline without any bad feeling.

 

So, in the "Do you mind if I smoke?" case, which invites the answer "no, carry on", a better way to do it would be to say "I'm just going to nip outside for a smoke". That way the host can say nothing, and nobody feels awkward, or can say "no need, here's and ashtray".

 

Likewise, if you feel that you might need to breast up, you could say to a moored boater;

"Do you know if there are any spaces a bit further along, because I need to moor up soon".

 

That allows the moored boater to reply in many ways;

"Yes, there is space about a quarter of a mile further on"

"Not much chance here, but if you go through the next lock, there will be loads of room outside the Red Lion"

"I doubt it, you might have to go on for a fair way, or you could moor alongside us if you want"

 

 

 

Hang on though, there are some on here who reckon you are within your rights to not allow someone to raft up to you. Whos authority is greater, the boat owner or the lock keeper?

 

Personally if someone wants to raft to me regardless of their craft they can, but should any damage occur they are liable for that. If a narrowboat damages a cruiser by rafting alongside on the say so of the lock keeper it is still the responsibility of the narrowboat master to pay for the damage.

 

You seem to be incapable of distinguishing mooring up and locking through.

 

For the avoidance of doubt;

 

You have a right to refuse another boater permission to breast up to you.

 

However, there are certain cases where you give up that right;

1. If you moor up where there are signs erected by the NA requiring breasting up. By mooring there, you give implicit permission.
   
2. Where a bye-law gives the NA staff the right to issue instructions as to the navigation of vessels
   

[Smudge]

Have people forgotten the idea of boating now, Its leisure time therefore plesurable.This disscusion is flawed if you dont want to go in with other boats dont,turn round and go later.Most lock keepers are quite amicable and work with boaters,so why get in a tiz about it.Ihave never had a boat go through my lock saying they wont moor here or even questioned any decision made on common sence.

Cassettes are also better than pump out

[Bones]

Likewise, if you feel that you might need to breast up, you could say to a moored boater;

"Do you know if there are any spaces a bit further along, because I need to moor up soon".

 

That allows the moored boater to reply in many ways;

"Yes, there is space about a quarter of a mile further on"

"Not much chance here, but if you go through the next lock, there will be loads of room outside the Red Lion"

"I doubt it, you might have to go on for a fair way, or you could moor alongside us if you want"

 

I would just ask. I don't care what the response was, if I do then I shouldn't have asked in the first place. I don't think you HAVE to let people moor next to you. I hate people mooring next to me as I too go to bed early and I like to look out of my windows, but I accept that what I want can't always be the case.

 

Increasing the cognitive load of a question allows for mis understanding. If someone doesn't ask, I assume they don't want to. Nothing wrong with that, so I guess there is nothing wrong with what you say either.

 

I never ask, and never would unless I really needed to stop. I don't think it would be obvious that I would need to stop to anyone other than me saying 'I really need to stop can I moor along side'.

 

This is where it gets tricky!

 

 

However, there are certain cases where you give up that right;

1. If you moor up where there are signs erected by the NA requiring breasting up. By mooring there, you give implicit permission.
   
2. Where a bye-law gives the NA staff the right to issue instructions as to the navigation of vessels
   

As for your points - the EA asks people to breast up in all sorts of literature. Isn't that why we all let it happen and let people breast up. I do, because I know that one day I might need to do the same.

 

How would you feel if I said to you - there aren't any spaces I would like to stop I am going to go along for another 10 minutes, but if there isn't anything can I moor next to you?

 

The reason I don't like mooring up is I don't like to have to worry about the other boat - what time they are leaving, whether I will get sleep etc, but I realise that with the ever increasing traffic on the river it is probably a necessarity. In reality I have had very very very few boats moor next to me, I wonder how many of us have actually had to breast up. When I was in Eynsham the other week I was stunned at the fact that a boat was moored next to me when there were TWO available slots next to me and TWO above the lock. Next time I wil be better prepared, but I can see how one bad experience can put someone off the whole practice.

[carlt]

Have people forgotten the idea of boating now, Its leisure time therefore plesurable.This disscusion is flawed if you dont want to go in with other boats dont,turn round and go later.Most lock keepers are quite amicable and work with boaters,so why get in a tiz about it.Ihave never had a boat go through my lock saying they wont moor here or even questioned any decision made on common sence.

Cassettes are also better than pump out

I think turning the topic towards breasting up before locks was a tad silly, really.

 

Of course people can breast up, whilst in a queue, whether directed to or not, it is overnight rafting that is the issue here.

 

As to boating being pleasurable, if I am forced to breast up, for the night, then all the pleasure is gone, for that period.

 

Not only do I not want to hear strangers going about their private lives, I don't want them to hear me.

 

I am always conscious of the noise I may be making and it spoils any enjoyment, making it a relief, in the morning, to untie and move on.

 

This is why I prefer to use the hook and tender, on the coast, and moor away from formal moorings, on the canals.

 

Whether or not others think this is "antisocial" or "weird" is irrelevant, it is how I feel and, as long as breasting up is not compulsory, I reserve the right to say no.

[Matthew Knowles]

<snip>

 

Whether or not others think this is "antisocial" or "weird" is irrelevant, it is how I feel and, as long as breasting up is not compulsory, I reserve the right to say no.

 

If people think that it is "antisocial" or "wierd" then that is their problem, not yours.

 

Personally if someone wants to raft to me regardless of their craft they can, but should any damage occur they are liable for that. If a narrowboat damages a cruiser by rafting alongside on the say so of the lock keeper it is still the responsibility of the narrowboat master to pay for the damage.

 

No point in you having third party insurance then since it would seem that it is always their fault, not yours.

[nb Innisfree]

We are only talking here (if you were referring to my post) breasting up while waiting for the lock.

 

No, assuming the thread is about breasting up in general I was just making an observation

 

Edited to add: By putting a sign up I meant putting one up myself on our boat

Edited July 15, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[Hairy-Neil]

Come on Neil, we all make instant judgements. It's our experience subconsciously bypassing the conscious thought process. OK, you can't tell by looking whether someone is one of the above (well, not without fail) but you can get a pretty good idea of whether or not you'll like them.

 

I've been on the receiving end of a lot of prejudice over the years through sporting a beard, including some of those I suggested above, as well as when steering a hire boat or worse, the NBT pair.

 

A lot of people comment when they've known me for half an hour, hey, you're quite normal.....

[nb Innisfree]

I've been on the receiving end of a lot of prejudice over the years through sporting a beard, including some of those I suggested above, as well as when steering a hire boat or worse, the NBT pair.

 

A lot of people comment when they've known me for half an hour, hey, you're quite normal.....

 

A beard ? :lol:

[carlt]

A lot of people comment when they've known me for half an hour, hey, you're quite normal.....

Yes it's usually only after an hour or two, the true character emerges

[Matthew Knowles]

I've been on the receiving end of a lot of prejudice over the years through sporting a beard, including some of those I suggested above, as well as when steering a hire boat or worse, the NBT pair.

 

A lot of people comment when they've known me for half an hour, hey, you're quite normal.....

I have a beard and haven't noticed being prejudiced against although my mother's beard does get some odd looks!

Edited July 15, 2010 by Matthew Knowles

[carlt]

I have a beard and haven't noticed being prejudiced against

Do you store your leftovers in it, though?

 

[Matthew Knowles]

Do you store your leftovers in it, though?

Of course! Where else would one keep them?

[nb Innisfree]

I have a beard and haven't noticed being prejudiced against although my mother's beard does get some odd looks!

 

Not another one