Is it actually possible to steer a narrowboat when going astern ? ! ?

[alan_fincher]

Two other helpful hints I've been given: Always watch the front of the boat arther than where you're going................

Fair enough !

 

..........and always reverse further than you think you need to.

Not something I care to try out whilst reversing into our pontoon mooring !

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Yes you can. Quite easily.

 

 

 

No sympathy needed for us cruiser owners. We just do things in a different manner to narrowboat owners. (i.e dont just crash into everything to aid manouvering )

Could they be retaliating for having their tea knocked over by a passing speeder?

[Naughty Cal]

Could they be retaliating for having their tea knocked over by a passing speeder?

 

What by crashing into lock walls, concrete edgings and wooden pontoons

 

Possibly not.

[alan_fincher]

No sympathy needed for us cruiser owners. We just do things in a different manner to narrowboat owners. (i.e dont just crash into everything to aid manouvering )

Clearly you have not visited the Thames much!

 

The average competence of narrow-boat crews when waiting for locks, entering them, getting attached to bollards, leaving locks, etc, seems to vastly outstrip that of those in the big white boats.

 

We love the "master of ceremonies" directing operations from his perch way in the skies, surrounded by a console like Rick Wakeman's, whilst white gloved, white trousered wife tries to lob fends over sides, (they can usually do this) and to lob ropes over bollards, (they usually can't do this).

 

The wry smiles and occasional comment from some of the lock-keepers says it all really. One didn't seem to attach any great urgency to one that had got it's bow hung on the side of an emptying lock, and seemed to thing a few creaking sounds were all part of the process of trying to educate them not to do it again.

 

The strange thing is that the big white plastic boats are presumably meant to be suitable for such use, our tin tubes really are not.

 

And we can get under the low bridges further up, meaning there are whole stretches where one does not get this level of spectator sport - all good fun, really!

[Naughty Cal]

Clearly you have not visited the Thames much!

 

The average competence of narrow-boat crews when waiting for locks, entering them, getting attached to bollards, leaving locks, etc, seems to vastly outstrip that of those in the big white boats.

 

We love the "master of ceremonies" directing operations from his perch way in the skies, surrounded by a console like Rick Wakeman's, whilst white gloved, white trousered wife tries to lob fends over sides, (they can usually do this) and to lob ropes over bollards, (they usually can't do this).

 

The wry smiles and occasional comment from some of the lock-keepers says it all really. One didn't seem to attach any great urgency to one that had got it's bow hung on the side of an emptying lock, and seemed to thing a few creaking sounds were all part of the process of trying to educate them not to do it again.

 

The strange thing is that the big white plastic boats are presumably meant to be suitable for such use, our tin tubes really are not.

 

And we can get under the low bridges further up, meaning there are whole stretches where one does not get this level of spectator sport - all good fun, really!

 

Horses for courses.

 

And of course practice makes perfect as with everything else. You need to find the perfect method of attaching your own boat which will of course be different for each boat. We have found the way that works for us on the bigger locks of the Trent/Ouse and Humber that narrowboaters just wont have to do. Our boat being shorter doesnt fit well between two sliders in the lock walls which are almost always about 40ft apart. The trick is to drive the bow close enough that one rope can be fed through the slider and then reverse back whilst paying out the bow rope to the next slider. Easy when you know how but you get someone who has not done it before/much and they make a balls up of it pretty much every time until they find a good technique.

 

The lock keeper you found sounds like a bit of a dick to be fair. If it had been my boat left hanging there would have been a complaint lodged about his behaviour.

[alan_fincher]

Our boat being shorter doesnt fit well between two sliders in the lock walls which are almost always about 40ft apart.

Sounds pretty good for our narrowboat, then

 

The lock keeper you found sounds like a bit of a dick to be fair. If it had been my boat left hanging there would have been a complaint lodged about his behaviour.

Actually, I kind of agree with you, other than I think the crew involved had probably had more to drink than they should have whilst boating, and I'd have been happier for everybody's safety if he had taken some action against them.

[Naughty Cal]

Sounds pretty good for our narrowboat, then

 

Actually, I kind of agree with you, other than I think the crew involved had probably had more to drink than they should have whilst boating, and I'd have been happier for everybody's safety if he had taken some action against them.

 

Well steady on because that is twice this week

[Iain_S]

(snip)

The lock keeper you found sounds like a bit of a dick to be fair. If it had been my boat left hanging there would have been a complaint lodged about his behaviour.

 

Even though it would have been you that hung it up in the first place?

Iain

[Naughty Cal]

Even though it would have been you that hung it up in the first place?

Iain

 

Yes. Even if by your own stupidity you have hung your boat, in manned locks it is the lock keepers duty to ensure a safe passage. He should have stopped emptying the lock and let some water in, not just laughed at them.

[Guest]

Just my two cents worth but I too concur with the ability to reverse and steer very much depends on the boat.

 

Over my last 4 hires I have found the boats behaved differently - it seems to me the longer the boat the easier it was to reverse (in my limited experience) - our last hire at 48 feet had a real tendency for the stern to 'tramp' sideways under the motion of the prop thus upsetting any direction I had set, I hadn't noticed this so much on previous (longer) hire boats.

 

As to the ability to be able to actually steer/change direction whilst in the process of reversing, I've never hired a boat that has the ability to do this (could be down to my incompetence mind!) and I've always had to try and set the direction with a gentle forward punt - straighten the tiller and then reverse.

[Justin Smith]

Just my two cents worth but I too concur with the ability to reverse and steer very much depends on the boat.

 

Over my last 4 hires I have found the boats behaved differently - it seems to me the longer the boat the easier it was to reverse (in my limited experience) - our last hire at 48 feet had a real tendency for the stern to 'tramp' sideways under the motion of the prop thus upsetting any direction I had set, I hadn't noticed this so much on previous (longer) hire boats.

 

As to the ability to be able to actually steer/change direction whilst in the process of reversing, I've never hired a boat that has the ability to do this (could be down to my incompetence mind!) and I've always had to try and set the direction with a gentle forward punt - straighten the tiller and then reverse.

 

We`ve just come back from a long w/e hiring a boat and I did a bit of testing when I could.

It seemed possible to get the boat to steer one way (in reverse) but not the other, which, it could be argued, isn`t really of much use !

I also found that the shape (underwater) and width of the canal had a big bearing on the boats steerability in reverse.

Mind you I also found it had a big influence when going forwards as well !

There was one incident in particular which was a bit, no, a lot, scary at the time.

I came round a left hand bend (at about 3mph) on the Oxford canal and there were a load of boats moored up along the right bank.

I thought I`d be courteous and try to stay on the left so I rounded the bend quite tightly, but when I tried to steer round the bend the boat just went straight on !

Now this boat didn`t seem the best handling craft and often took an age to respond so I just waited for it to start going.

I waited.

I waited a bit more.

I waited even more.

But it just wasn`t turning and I started getting more and more worried. I realised I`d already run out of room and reached the point of no return when I wouldn`t have room to get the boat to stop before it would hit one of the moored boats.

So I started praying and at the last moment it started turning but with so little room that it ended up about 6" parallel with the moored boats, so little room that I didn`t feel I could risk turning in case the stern hit one of them, so I had to cruise the whole length along them about 6" away !

[Laurence Hogg]

We`ve just come back from a long w/e hiring a boat and I did a bit of testing when I could.

It seemed possible to get the boat to steer one way (in reverse) but not the other, which, it could be argued, isn`t really of much use !

I also found that the shape (underwater) and width of the canal had a big bearing on the boats steerability in reverse.

Mind you I also found it had a big influence when going forwards as well !

There was one incident in particular which was a bit, no, a lot, scary at the time.

I came round a left hand bend (at about 3mph) on the Oxford canal and there were a load of boats moored up along the right bank.

I waited.

I waited a bit more.

I waited even more.

But it just wasn`t turning and I started getting more and more worried. I realised I`d already run out of room and reached the point of no return when I wouldn`t have room to get the boat to stop before it would hit one of the moored boats.

So I started praying and at the last moment it started turning but with so little room that it ended up about 6" parallel with the moored boats, so little room that I didn`t feel I could risk turning in case the stern hit one of them, so I had to cruise the whole length along them about 6" away !

"I thought I`d be courteous and try to stay on the left so I rounded the bend quite tightly, but when I tried to steer round the bend the boat just went straight on !

Now this boat didn`t seem the best handling craft and often took an age to respond so I just waited for it to start going."

 

Justin, you never cut into the inside of a bend as its always the shallow part usually, however boats moored on the outsides of bends are also showing ignorance of where is safe to moor up. Sadly I have seen fresh BW moorings positioned thus which goes to show how little present day BW know about where to moor and not to moor.

[RLWP]

Yep. Justin, you ran her aground on the inside of the bend and slid along the bottom. That's why she wouldn't steer until she was back in the channel.

 

We try to stay in the centre as much as possible. For one thing, oncoming boats will see you sooner if you're not hiding in the bushes.

 

Richard

 

I agree with Lawrence about mooring on a bend too. It's wrong and if you do it, you have to take the consequences of obstructing the waterway.

[Justin Smith]

Yep. Justin, you ran her aground on the inside of the bend and slid along the bottom. That's why she wouldn't steer until she was back in the channel.

 

We try to stay in the centre as much as possible. For one thing, oncoming boats will see you sooner if you're not hiding in the bushes.

 

Richard

 

I agree with Lawrence about mooring on a bend too. It's wrong and if you do it, you have to take the consequences of obstructing the waterway.

 

You`re probably right but it didn`t feel like it, you can usually feel/hear the rubbing of the hull on the bottom and the boat didn`t slow down either, unfortunately !

[RLWP]

You`re probably right but it didn`t feel like it, you can usually feel/hear the rubbing of the hull on the bottom and the boat didn`t slow down either, unfortunately !

 

Sounds exactly right. Frustrating isn't it!

 

Richard

 

[NB Alnwick]

Having once found it necessary to reverse all the way back from Banbury (Hardwick Lock) to Cropredy I can confirm that it is perfectly possible to steer in reverse but it isn't easy - especially when trying to do so in the midst of a canoe race . . .

[Gibbo]

In answer to the original question... "Not if it's Lionheart No 2"

[sociable_hermit]

Having once found it necessary to reverse all the way back from Banbury (Hardwick Lock) to Cropredy I can confirm that it is perfectly possible to steer in reverse but it isn't easy - especially when trying to do so in the midst of a canoe race . . .

[polyhistor]

The most imressive bit of NB reversing i`ve seen was at Hillmorton Locks (near Rugby ) from the side by side lock 4&5into the boatyard arm.Obviously the guy worked at the boatyard and spends his days manouvering boats but the interesting thing was the speed the boat was travelling . He was travelling at a normal cruising speed! , which made me wonder whether it is a lot easier to reverse if the boat has plenty of momentem. This would explain some of the dificulties mentioned earlier with `bottoming` , breeze, swim etc '

Not sure if it would overcome the problem of having an `audience`though.

[nb Innisfree]

The most imressive bit of NB reversing i`ve seen was at Hillmorton Locks (near Rugby ) from the side by side lock 4&5into the boatyard arm.Obviously the guy worked at the boatyard and spends his days manouvering boats but the interesting thing was the speed the boat was travelling . He was travelling at a normal cruising speed! , which made me wonder whether it is a lot easier to reverse if the boat has plenty of momentem. This would explain some of the dificulties mentioned earlier with `bottoming` , breeze, swim etc '

Not sure if it would overcome the problem of having an `audience`though.

 

Rudder is much more effective at speed, the problem is getting up to speed in the first place!

[Liam]

And the other problem with reversing at speed is that if the back end does start to kick off, it does it very quickly.

 

I find my boat is best reversing at just above tickove, and goes as straight as an arrow and allows me to change direction which the back end is travelling.

[FadeToScarlet]

Inspired by the thread, I tried this last night.

 

Suffice to say, I can reverse the boat perfectly backwards down a little side-channel in St. Ives, with no-one watching, but in front of about 8 14-year-old girls learning to row, and a college first eight, not to mention two other fellow narrowboaters, I make a complete cockup of it and end up sideways accross the river....

 

NB. if you're doing any reversing, take more account of the flow of the river than I did, otherwise your bow can get pushed around and you end up not being able to pull it straight again.

[Justin Smith]

down a little side-channel in St. Ives

 

Would that be that dead end side channel by the side of the museum in St Ives ?

If it is we got into a fair old mess there !

Our waterways guide didn`t say it was a dead end so we took our 35ft cruiser down there.

When it transpired it was in fact a dead end we tried to do a turn as you would in a canal boat if space was limited, I nosed onto the bank, swung the tiller (steering wheel in this case.......) over and it turned fine.

Put it into reverse, and, and, and......., it wouldn`t come off !

I reckon it was partly down to having a pointy hull (! ? ! ) and partly the fact the engine/throttle wouldn`t develop full power astern. Very embarrassing it was, we got an audience all watching from the churchyard there !

In the end I looped a rope over that foot bridge and pulled like hell whilst the wife put it in as near full astern as it`d let us.

It just came off and we cruised back up past all the boats looking at us like we were from Mars !

Edited May 11, 2010 by Justin Smith

[RLWP]

Would that be that dead end side channel by the side of the museum in St Ives ?

If it is we got into a fair old mess there !

Our waterways guide didn`t say it was a dead end so we took our 35ft cruiser down there.

When it transpired it was in fact a dead end we tried to do a turn as you would in a canal boat if space was limited, I nosed onto the bank, swung the tiller (steering wheel in this case.......) over and it turned fine.

Put it into reverse, and, and, and......., it wouldn`t come off !

I reckon it was partly down to having a pointy hull (! ? ! ) and partly the fact the engine/throttle wouldn`t develop full power astern. Very embarrassing it was, we got an audience all watching from the churchyard there !

In the end I looped a rope over that foot bridge and pulled like hell whilst the wife put it in as near full astern as it`d let us.

It just came off and we cruised back up past all the boats looking at us like we were from Mars !

 

I've done that outside the Cafe at Hatton. What happens is that you push the bow onto some silt - unseen, then slide it further on by pivoting around the bow and using the boat as a lever with the engine at the back. Try to reverse and - nothing. I had managed to get more silt underneath and we had a real struggle to get off.

 

Richard

 

Naturally it was a sunny day and lots of people outside the cafe

[blodger]

And the other problem with reversing at speed is that if the back end does start to kick off, it does it very quickly.

 

I find my boat is best reversing at just above tickove, and goes as straight as an arrow and allows me to change direction which the back end is travelling.

 

I often reverse from a winding hole back to a mooring or sometimes the other way round if I want to go the other way. If its a bit windy I find it helps to chuck a mudweight with a bit of chain on off the bow. It tends to hold thee bow mid channel when there is sternway. It's probably more effective when you pick a some mattress springs on it!

 

I also use this trick if I have to drop back past moored boats to where there was/is a mooring space.