Canal Boat CB radio - short update

[Mitch - Soma]

For those of us interested, some changes which we have decided on:

 

1 Ch. 9 is NOT legally deignated as emergency, but we will continue with the conventional use as emergency.

 

2 We will use the original 27/81 U.K. frequencies. This will avoid the problem of cross-channel skip causing undue interference. It also allows use of original C.B. equipment. Contrary to popular opinion, these channels are NOT about to be withdrawn anytime soon - you may use them for the "useful life of the equipment" and since new radio's are being sold with these frequencies, that is a long, long time!

 

3 We will use Ch. 16 as a boat calling channel. 16 lies midway between the original Ch. 14 and 19 and so will not cause them much problem. Ch. 16 is Marine V.H.F. calling, so fit's nicely with boating and if you hear someone calling on 16, it will most likely be a fellow boater.

 

4 The Selective Calling facility, which allows you to have your own "phone number" ,will be available as a stand alone "box" which can be plugged into any shape or size of C.B. radio.

 

So YES, those of you who still have old C.B.'s shoved away in the attic or bilge, dig 'em out! Those who would like to get on the network, visit your local Maplins or truck-stop, probably cheaper to buy on e-bay though.

 

Hope to hear you soon on Ch.16.

 

Mitch.

[Hair Bear Bunch]

Err... who is 'We'?

[carlt]

What about the non-canal users that follow the convention of ch14 as a calling channel and wish to use 16 for normal conversation?

 

 

 

Err... who is 'We'?

The new "They"

[Hair Bear Bunch]

As I live about 200yds from the (currently blocked) Basingstoke canal with a 40' mast in the garden I could monitor the entire top pound from here but, a, I don't have the time - and b, I suspect my boat is the only one in the area with CB and/or marine vhf so possibly a little pointless.

That said, there are other local base stations around but as there aren't many of us we just congregate on one of the higher channels, maybe a list of suggested channels for specific areas like the marine vhf for port ops.?

 

Rob. 2B8VL

[mickp]

been years since i used cb ,but still use ham radio ,but both types of operators normally use the gentlemans agreed freq for calling then move to a freq not in use(most sensible way) ,so using say channel 16 as a call channel would most likely upset a few folk

[alan_fincher]

2 We will use the original 27/81 U.K. frequencies.

 

For those of us who used to understand legal UK CB when it first came out, but have slipped out of contact, can you please explain exactly the current legal situation in the UK.

 

I know the FM frequencies first allocated in the UK were totally unique, requiring explicitly purchase equipment. I seem to recall that's what you refer to as "27/81" - is that correct, please ?

 

But I have been told that subsequently that new frequencies were legalised in the UK - I assumed maybe to bring us in line with other countries ? I was also told that was what was now used, and the original equipment had fallen out of use. Is that incorrect, please ?

 

So YES, those of you who still have old C.B.'s shoved away in the attic or bilge, dig 'em out! Those who would like to get on the network, visit your local Maplins or truck-stop, probably cheaper to buy on e-bay though.

 

So I could still walk into Maplin and buy a rig that used exactly the same FM frequencies that were first made legal in the UK, then ? Sorry if that sounds daft - but others have implied I couldn't.

 

I think I may still have a couple of such sets, although the Tandy "hand held" was only marginally smaller than a car battery!

 

Finally, even though unlicensed, presumably rigs must comply to having some kind of compliance mark, still ? What about antennas. Still limited to bottom loaded, and no more than 1.5 metres, (not that I could get under bridges with a "Silver Rod" or similar!

 

I'd be prepared to try, (as it sounds "free" in my case!), but don't think you'll get enough interested, frankly.

 

I might even have a look at what Maplin sell, if PC doesn't die again!

[mickp]

For those of us who used to understand legal UK CB when it first came out, but have slipped out of contact, can you please explain exactly the current legal situation in the UK.

 

I know the FM frequencies first allocated in the UK were totally unique, requiring explicitly purchase equipment. I seem to recall that's what you refer to as "27/81" - is that correct, please ?

 

But I have been told that subsequently that new frequencies were legalised in the UK - I assumed maybe to bring us in line with other countries ? I was also told that was what was now used, and the original equipment had fallen out of use. Is that incorrect, please ?!

yes frequencies/channals were brought into line with other contries as you say the original ones were strange uk only frequencies.i believe the intention was that the old 40 channels would die naturally as radios wore out blew up etc leaving the new cept frequencies

[blodger]

yes frequencies/channals were brought into line with other contries as you say the original ones were strange uk only frequencies.i believe the intention was that the old 40 channels would die naturally as radios wore out blew up etc leaving the new cept frequencies

I am confused now. I EBay bought a couple of old Tandy CB radios thinking they were now obsolete but in order to communicate with each other and in expectation that there would be few others doing so or causing 'interference'. I have had them switched on in listening mode on various channels and heard little, admittedly I am only using the short aerial fairly close to the groung. As a project I shelved it when I realised it was not to be as straightforward as I had thought.

[GUMPY]

For those of us who used to understand legal UK CB when it first came out, but have slipped out of contact, can you please explain exactly the current legal situation in the UK.

 

All the info you need? here

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/lic...cbinfosheet.pdf

[Mitch - Soma]

What about the non-canal users that follow the convention of ch14 as a calling channel and wish to use 16 for normal conversation?

 

 

 

 

The new "They"

 

The "we" are two other boaters and myself who are also interested in radio. Trying to get concesus out of over 77,000 boaters would be impossible - there would never be agreement to the point of a system actually being adopted.

 

Ch. 14 was odopted only in the U.K. the global concensus was Ch. 19 for calling - hence most C.B.'s sold today have an instant Ch. 19 switch. If non-canal users could just adopt a channel ad-hoc, why should boaters not do the same? C.B. use today is so minimul that the odds of every one of the 37 available channels being occupied simultaneously is rather low. I am quite sure that no-one will have to use Ch. 16 to hold a conversation.

 

Regarding purchase, yes virtually all radio's now sold in the U.K. have 80 channels - the original U.K. 40 AND the now legalised CEPT, or original American channels. Some radio's, like the TTI TCB550 actually have facilities for all frequencies including Poland and Germany. You select the country you are using the radio in by setting it from the front panel, and the radio operates in accordance with the laws in that country. Be careful when buying on-line, some radio's being offered have the new cept ch.'s only, though not very many. (I have only found one in fact, and it was clearly stated that the unit could not talk to U.K. only radio's).

[Graham Davis]

Regarding purchase, yes virtually all radio's now sold in the U.K. have 80 channels - the original U.K. 40 AND the now legalised CEPT, or original American channels.

 

 

I think you are wrong there. The original US channels were and still are on AM, whereas UK and Europe are FM.

[Mitch - Soma]

I think you are wrong there. The original US channels were and still are on AM, whereas UK and Europe are FM.

 

Sorry Graham, I didn't mention that the frequencies are the same, but not the modulation method. However, the "multi-country" radio's have the ability to switch between A.M. and F.M. depending on whether both modulation methods are legal in that country. It is perfectly feasable to switch your radio to, say, "Spain" and you will be able to select either A.M. or F.M., but using the A.M. would be illegal in the U.K. Selecting U.K. or U.K./EU dis-ables the A.M./F.M. switching function, allowing only F.M. use - so can be used legally in the U.K.

[alan_fincher]

All the info you need? here

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/lic...cbinfosheet.pdf

Thanks Julian - Very understandable, and cuts through the crap.

 

Note that although not enforceable, it does nominate use of 14 ("Calling") and 19 ("Mobile")

 

Anyone know what the relative balance of use is between the UK specific channels, and the European "CEPT" channels, please ?

 

Interested no apparent antenna restrictions now - one of the biggest constraints of 27/81, (if you were insistent on staying "legal").

 

So I can have a Silver Rod on my narrowboat, it seems......

[mickp]

Thanks Julian - Very understandable, and cuts through the crap.

 

Note that although not enforceable, it does nominate use of 14 ("Calling") and 19 ("Mobile")

 

Anyone know what the relative balance of use is between the UK specific channels, and the European "CEPT" channels, please ?

 

Interested no apparent antenna restrictions now - one of the biggest constraints of 27/81, (if you were insistent on staying "legal").

 

So I can have a Silver Rod on my narrowboat, it seems......

just tune my radio and antenna down on to the 11 meter band ,my antenna is horizontal and not going to be picking up cb very well but theres activity on cept and the old 27/81 bands,but the language is not pretty.there would be no chance of taking control of a channel and the idiots out there are just waiting in the shadows to play the laughing police man or what ever to break up any conversation.....

if your into cb radio as a boater trucker or who ever use ch 19 if your mobile to monitor then move to a clear freq for a chat,no nead to change the rules at all really,also as a boat setup will be short range ie canals rarely on high ground and most likely have a small mobile whip ,then i guess a couple of mile up or down stream will be normal and activity would be low so at least using 19 you can hear some signs of life.

What would be a good idea is to see if canal users could adopt a marine freq,all user take a course and bw setup a repeater network to cover the the canal system.bw could send stoppages etc and boaters could chat make emergency calls.COULD THIS HAPPEN ?

[choogh]

just tune my radio and antenna down on to the 11 meter band ,my antenna is horizontal and not going to be picking up cb very well but theres activity on cept and the old 27/81 bands,but the language is not pretty.there would be no chance of taking control of a channel and the idiots out there are just waiting in the shadows to play the laughing police man or what ever to break up any conversation.....

if your into cb radio as a boater trucker or who ever use ch 19 if your mobile to monitor then move to a clear freq for a chat,no nead to change the rules at all really,also as a boat setup will be short range ie canals rarely on high ground and most likely have a small mobile whip ,then i guess a couple of mile up or down stream will be normal and activity would be low so at least using 19 you can hear some signs of life.

What would be a good idea is to see if canal users could adopt a marine freq,all user take a course and bw setup a repeater network to cover the the canal system.bw could send stoppages etc and boaters could chat make emergency calls.COULD THIS HAPPEN ?

I don't know, but if it did, count me in, as a potential single crew cc. it's a must.

[bigcol]

I don't know, but if it did, count me in, as a potential single crew cc. it's a must.

 

I agree it be a brillient idea count me in

 

been looking on ebay, and i right, any modern FM cb set would be good, and antena

 

ARE THERE ANY BRANDS THAT ARE BETTER THAN THE REST

 

or are their brands that we should stay clear off

 

many thanks

 

col

[Ray]

I like the marine channel idea but the cost of setting up the repeater network is probably going to be too great at a time when BW aren't exactly flush with cash.

 

However, if they then equipped all their teams with handheld radios rather than rely on mobiles, they might be able to get some benefit out of it.

 

Returning to CB, I seem to recall that channel 31 (on the old frequencies) has been mentioned before. It won't always be free but keeping radios on low power (to avoid emitting too much interference to others) and cranking the squelch control up to blank out unwanted traffic might just be all that is required. After all, with the perceived average age of leisure boaters being on the higher side, I suspect that more are likely to have an old CB lying around than a new one.

 

A quick check at Maplins reveals A 75cms high mag mount antenna for £16 so you could probably be on air for under £25 by the time you've connected the rig to a power supply - another advantage of lower power is you'll only need a low value fuse.

[alan_fincher]

I agree it be a brillient idea count me in

 

been looking on ebay, and i right, any modern FM cb set would be good, and antena

 

ARE THERE ANY BRANDS THAT ARE BETTER THAN THE REST

 

or are their brands that we should stay clear off

 

many thanks

 

col

Are prices of UK FM CB rigs on e-Bay about to rocket - perhaps you need to ensure you are not all bidding against each other !

[Mitch - Soma]

Are prices of UK FM CB rigs on e-Bay about to rocket - perhaps you need to ensure you are not all bidding against each other !

[/quote

 

Glad to see so much interest - perhaps the system could get quite useful.

 

Best radio I have seen so far is the TTI TCB 550. It is a "multi-standard" or multi-country unit which can operate on all the different systems used in the E.C., E.U/. and U.K. This is settable from the front panel, you basically choose which country you are operating in and the unit then works in accordance with the laws of that country. It has two choices for U.K. - U.K. only, which are the "old" frequencies, or U.K./E.C, which are both the "old" and the new CEPT frequencies, all of which are now legal in the U.K. I don't know of any retailers off-hand - (except me of course ), but there are some on-line shops selling them. My retail price is £50.00, so I would think anywher between £45.00 and £55.00 would be a fair price.

 

The new CEPT frequencies are 100% dead in Central London - have been monitoring for 6 month's now and have heard absolutely squat, barring loads of cross-channel interference from Europe. There are about 8 or 10 land based users who quite regularly use Ch.19 old U.K. as thier talk channel, but they are thier own select crowd and all outsiders appear to be wholly ignored.

[Ray]

Snip

 

The new CEPT frequencies are 100% dead in Central London - have been monitoring for 6 month's now and have heard absolutely squat, barring loads of cross-channel interference from Europe.

 

Snip

 

With due respect, if that's the case, why would you need any special enhancements to a radio? If it was possible to stop people from hearing your conversation then it might be worth while. However, as anyone with an unmodified rig could hear everything but thre's nobody using the frequencies, I don't see the point in selective whatever.

 

I doubt anywhere else in the country is liable to be any different to London usage wise so the CEPT freqs would appear to be wally free.

[Dyad]

Glad to see so much interest - perhaps the system could get quite useful.

 

Best radio I have seen so far is the TTI TCB 550. It is a "multi-standard" or multi-country unit which can operate on all the different systems used in the E.C., E.U/. and U.K. This is settable from the front panel, you basically choose which country you are operating in and the unit then works in accordance with the laws of that country. It has two choices for U.K. - U.K. only, which are the "old" frequencies, or U.K./E.C, which are both the "old" and the new CEPT frequencies, all of which are now legal in the U.K. I don't know of any retailers off-hand - (except me of course ), but there are some on-line shops selling them. My retail price is £50.00, so I would think anywher between £45.00 and £55.00 would be a fair price.

 

The new CEPT frequencies are 100% dead in Central London - have been monitoring for 6 month's now and have heard absolutely squat, barring loads of cross-channel interference from Europe. There are about 8 or 10 land based users who quite regularly use Ch.19 old U.K. as thier talk channel, but they are thier own select crowd and all outsiders appear to be wholly ignored.

 

Hi Mitch

 

What is your opinion of the maycom

 

Cheers

 

Kev

[GUMPY]

just an observation on channel 16

in the days of illegal and legal CB 28-30 years ago channel 16 was used in the Northants, Bucks and Beds area as a calling channel, reason was channel 19 was trucking, channel 14 was unusable so we moved up to 16.

Personally I was on SSB but thats another story, anyone from that area or rugby area remember "the continuing saga of the dish" ?

[nb Innisfree]

Years ago my mum when listening to various CBers asking '14 for a copy?' eventualy piped up and asked why everyone was asking for a coffee!

[Nickhlx]

Years ago my mum when listening to various CBers asking '14 for a copy?' eventualy piped up and asked why everyone was asking for a coffee!

 

 

:lol:

 

Just had a read of the Ofcom words and sure enough the Para (ii) recommends,

ii) Respect operating conventions – leave Channel 9 clear for emergencies,

Channel 14 for calling and Channel 19 for mobile use. Also respect any local

conventions regarding the use of a channel for a specific purpose.

 

Other points:

 

- Only FM is legal in the UK

- (PR 27/94) / (27/81-UK) This is commonly known as the "UK" Band and includes the

older 27/81 ( original FM) and more recent CEPT/EU frequencies which are now usable in

the UK (on FM) for the forseeable future.

 

 

 

The thing I find a bit annoying with 27 Megs is that the groundwave goes a mile or three

and that's about it, but the skywave / skip brings in distant stations that are unlikley to

be who you want to talk to.

 

and the aerials are so big ( 8' whips) unless you use shortened ( less efficient aerials / less range)

 

I would be interested ( prefer) in VHF / UHF which still gives 2 or 3 miles range, the aerials are small

( less than 19") and PMR 446 near enough ticks all the boxes ( no licence and inexpensive too)

and many people already have these....

 

Nick

[Hair Bear Bunch]

For what it's worth, all my kit dates from the early to mid eighties (remember the Grandstand baserig?). What dealings I've had with newer radios has been sketchy, but general opinion has been that older radios are mostly repairable down to component level whereas newer things have been unrepairable at any level.

My boat cb uses a 3' self grounding self swr-ing antenna called a Saturn 5, which although not spectacular in performance, still contacts base from over 3 miles and acts as a very cunning mount for the red ensign.

I have tried fitting a standard mobile type antenna on a fibreglass boat using the steel fuel tank as a groundplane but far from satisfactory.

Never done a steel nb install but I'm thinking maybe a 'halfbreed' type on a magmount, or a Stinger on a studmount. Both fairly unobtrusive and quickly removed if necessary.

Certainly interested to hear of anyone elses boat installs.