Laptop battery

[Ange]

The batteries on our boat are knackered - that's something we have to live with until we can save up enough money to buy new ones - that'll be a topic in it's own right when the time comes but for the moment we have to manage as we are.

 

I discovered very shortly after moving aboard that I can't run my laptop with the engine running (I posted about the inverter shrieking and wailing in those earlier very naive days when I thought after a full day cruising there'd be enough juice to run my lappy for more than five minutes) edit - this should have read I CAN run my laptop with the engine running - what a twit!!!

 

Initially I used the lappy to access the internet after 8pm for as long as the battery lasted (just over an hour with this lappy). I've since discovered that I can charge the battery while the engine is off as long as it's not switched on which has stretched my internet use out for the whole evening. I hop onto the internet for about 10 minutes to check on the traffic on the forum and other favourite sites, then close the computer down and wait for the green light again, then I nip back on.

 

It's just occurred to me that I might be knackering my lappy battery by doing that. I am totally ignorant of how batteries work so please don't come down too hard on me if this question is stupid.

 

Thanks folks

Ange

 

Edited cos one word made it nonsense!!

Edited October 23, 2009 by Ange

[Gibbo]

Sorry but none of that makes any sense.

[Smelly]

It's just occurred to me that I might be knackering my lappy battery by doing that. I am totally ignorant of how batteries work so please don't come down too hard on me if this question is stupid.

 

Thanks folks

Ange

 

Oh gawd someone's mentioned batteries again... KILL!

 

OTH, what kind of batts are they, are they Lithium ones or Cadmium ones (Liion or Nicad)

 

Just to save Gibbo a job of course! I know sweet FA about the charging or death characteristics of owt but SLA.

[LoneWolf]

Are you charging the laptop via an inverter?

My understanding of elctrickery is minimal but i think you're taking 12v ramping it up to 240 with the inverter and then that heavy box on the lappy lead is converting it down to 19v (or 16v or whatever it needs)

You can get magic gizmos from Maplins that take the 12v and turn it into 19v (or 16 etc) which is much more efficient

 

I'll try and find a pic of what i mean

 

Edited to say: like one of these http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44736

But take the laptop lead in - it'll say on the box bit what voltage you need so just get the one that has the right voltage (or question the shop assistant)

Edited October 23, 2009 by LoneWolf

[Ange]

Sorry but none of that makes any sense.

/me sobs quietly cos she's obviously made an ass of herself

 

 

OTH, what kind of batts are they, are they Lithium ones or Cadmium ones (Liion or Nicad)

 

Just to save Gibbo a job of course! I know sweet FA about the charging or death characteristics of owt but SLA.

 

sob - you're speaking Swahili to me now - I'm asking about my lappy battery - not a clue what it's made of!

 

 

Are you charging the laptop via an inverter?

My understanding of elctrickery is minimal but i think you're taking 12v ramping it up to 240 with the inverter and then that heavy box on the lappy lead is converting it down to 19v (or 16v or whatever it needs)

You can get magic gizmos from Maplins that take the 12v and turn it into 19v (or 16 etc) which is much more efficient

 

I'll try and find a pic of what i mean

 

Edited to say: like one of these http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44736

But take the laptop lead in - it'll say on the box bit what voltage you need so just get the one that has the right voltage (or question the shop assistant)

 

sobbing even harder now - only know the answer to the first question - yes I charge it up via an invertor - which shrieks and then turns itself off if the lappy is running.

[Smelly]

/me sobs quietly cos she's obviously made an ass of herself

 

 

 

 

sob - you're speaking Swahili to me now - I'm asking about my lappy battery - not a clue what it's made of!

 

 

 

 

sobbing even harder now - only know the answer to the first question - yes I charge it up via an invertor - which shrieks and then turns itself off if the lappy is running.

 

Nononono!....

 

They ain't Lead Acid batts, twas (spelling, phew) a valid question... but what kind are they? And... How big's yer inverter?

[Ange]

Nononono!....

 

They ain't Lead Acid batts, twas (spelling, phew) a valid question... but what kind are they? And... How big's yer inverter?

 

Dave tells me invertor is 150 watts

 

I'm feeling really stupid right now - wish I'd never asked

 

Edited to add - far too tired & emotional right now - will discuss rationally tomorrow

Edited October 23, 2009 by Ange

[LoneWolf]

Dave tells me invertor is 150 watts

 

I'm feeling really stupid right now - wish I'd never asked

 

I think you're confusing stupidity with ignorance.

Nothing wrong with ignorance cos you're attempting to rectify it with this thread.

 

 

I dont understand why you can charge it via the inverter when the engine is off but not when it's running - hopefully someone else will advise

 

I dont know about lappy battry knackering either but I've been using mine till the battry runs out for the last 3 months and haven't noticed a deterioration in performance.

 

in the meantime:

Go to Maplins and get a gizmo - it'll take less battry juice to charge the lappy. They come with in car cigarette lighter plugs - does the boat have a cigarette lighter socket thingy? if not you can get lighter to 12v plug things.

Charge the lappy when you're not using it (but you worked this bit out already)

 

scuse spelling

[billh]

I think you're confusing stupidity with ignorance.

Nothing wrong with ignorance cos you're attempting to rectify it with this thread.

 

 

I dont understand why you can charge it via the inverter when the engine is off but not when it's running - hopefully someone else will advise

This sounds like the inverter is detecting over-voltage from the boat alternator. I think Ange said the boat batteries were aged, so they may not be taking charge properly and the supply voltage is too high, engine running. Similarly, with engine off , the inverter is detecting under-voltage after a short time ( the boat batteries have low capacity and/ or shorted cells ) and this makes the inverter "scream" before it switches itself off ( around 10,5volts usually). Bite the bullet and get new boat batteries, the rest of the kit is probably ok.Am I talking nonsense? Probably.

Bill

[wonderdust]

What make of laptop is it? Did i read somewhere , might of been on this forum, that if it is a Dell that they are very picky on the charge voltage!

[Proper Job]

One thing that may be effecting the life of the battery is the amount of time you spend online.

 

3G dongles seem to chew up electric. I've noticed that my battery life is more than halved as soon as I plug in the dongle and connect to the outside world.

[DHutch]

Original post makes sense to me.

- Your charging the laptop from an inverter.

- The inverter cannot handle running while the engine/alternator is running

- The inverter also cannot handle running the laptop, but with the laptop off, will charge the battery.

- Hence you use the laptop for a bit, turn it off, plug it in to charge, then us it a bit more and can use the laptop throughout the night like this.

 

Presumably this is because the alternator pushes the voltage higher than the inverter will tolerate (cheap intolerant inverter, or problematic alternator regulator) and because the inverter at 150watt (or 150va) is a little tight for for running the laptop power brick while the laptops running. But the laptop takes less power when just charging the battery.

 

If you have the name/specs of the inverter that might point to if it does have a fairly low max input voltage, or is infact only 150watt max with a much lower continuous rating.

 

The laptop battery's will most likely be Li-on (lithium ion) and should mind the use your giving it i wouldnt have thought, again im not an expert, but as far as i know the main this they hate most is being run flat and left flat, along with to a lesser extent, sitting in a laptop thats plug into the mains continuously and never uses its battery. The battery will say on it what it is. On its label, either on the bas of the laptop, or on the otherface once you have removed the abttery.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Proper Job]

BTW - I use the Maplins 12v to 18v gizmo for my laptop.

 

Ditch the inverter (why take 12v dc, convert to 240v ac and then convert it to 18v dc?)

[twocvbloke]

Battery technologies for modern laptops are fairly robust, either Nickle Metal Hydride, Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer, but the general rules apply, so long as they're not left and used below about 60-75% charge, they last for years...

 

As for charging off a 12v supply, I agree that an inverter is a daft way to go, it's inefficient, as you're taking a low DC voltage, converting to a high AC voltage, then converting it back to a low DC voltage!!! As mentioned, you can get 12vDC PSUs for use in cars, caravans and boats, this removes the need to use the inverter...

 

And like Proper Job, I too have noticed my lappy's battery life drop while using my 3G stick off battery, they do suck up the juice pretty quick, no wonder they get so hot!!!

[bag 'o' bones]

Lithium Ion lap top batteries seem to be the most common batteries these days and have been for the last 5 years. I doubt there are many ni-cads left!

 

Like Dhutch has already mentioned, what kills batteries off is lack of use or extreme charge/discharge cycles. Regular topping up seems to be the way to go to avoid premature failure.

 

Also there are rumours floating around that some batteries are fitted with 'kill' circuits which after a set number of charge cycles the battery is switched off completely forcing you to buy a replacement - all in the name of safety allegedly. Not sure how true it is but it would not surprise me what will all the white label skullduggery they like to get involved in!

[Bones]

BTW - I use the Maplins 12v to 18v gizmo for my laptop.

 

Ditch the inverter (why take 12v dc, convert to 240v ac and then convert it to 18v dc?)

 

so do I... and it works a treat.

[Nickhlx]

so do I... and it works a treat.

 

 

Is it safe to run a laptop with no battery connected - just the power supply e.g the 12 volt to 19 volt inverter ?

 

I assume most people have laptops on the boat because it saves space - maybe the battery is not actually NEEDED, if you can work with it tied to the wall by cable ?

 

Nick

[journeyperson]

Is it safe to run a laptop with no battery connected - just the power supply e.g the 12 volt to 19 volt inverter ?

 

I assume most people have laptops on the boat because it saves space - maybe the battery is not actually NEEDED, if you can work with it tied to the wall by cable ?

 

Nick

 

I don't think my laptop works if the battery is taken out and the mains plugged in. I also endorse the Maplins adapters which work well.

[WotEver]

I don't think my laptop works if the battery is taken out and the mains plugged in. I also endorse the Maplins adapters which work well.

In any case, however old the battery is it'll still be acting as a big smoothing capacitor when connected to external power, so I'd say leave it connected.

 

Tony

[Ange]

Blimey - I did get a bit tired and emotional last night didn't I

 

I made a bit of an error in my OP as well - to clarify I can run my lappy with then engine on quite happily, it's when the engine's turned off that I have problems - I can only plug it in when it's closed down, otherwise the invertor shrieks at me then switches itself off.

 

I took the battery out to have a look - it is Li-on. Interestingly it said on it that it had a rating of 11.1 volts but the power supply unit is definitely 19v. The laptop's an Acer.

 

It was interesting to learn that the 3G dongle is probably exacerbating the problem. Mine is mounted on a pole on the roof which probably makes this worse.

 

We do intend to replace the boat batteries but need to completely overhaul the whole system which will probably cost somewhere in the region of £1k so we're busy saving up. In the meantime we're managing with what we've got.

 

I think a trip to Maplin for one of these gizmos is definitely the way forward.

 

My original concern that I'm knackering the lappy battery by constantly topping it up has been assauged (thanks folks) - I know in the early days of mobile phones the batteries had to be completely discharged each time to maximise their life - this was vaguely on my mind when I very unwisely opened a topic on something I have a very vague grasp of after a few too many sherberts!!

 

Thanks for the input

 

[WotEver]

I hop onto the internet for about 10 minutes to check on the traffic on the forum and other favourite sites, then close the computer down and wait for the green light again, then I nip back on.

Ange - if you're only getting 10 minutes usage out of your battery before you get the "Low Power" warning then your battery is already all but dead - you won't be doing any more harm. If you Google for replacement batteries you'll probably be pleasantly surprised at how cheaply you can source a replacement. Do search around, prices can vary by 150% from source to source.

 

Tony

[Ange]

Ange - if you're only getting 10 minutes usage out of your battery before you get the "Low Power" warning then your battery is already all but dead - you won't be doing any more harm. If you Google for replacement batteries you'll probably be pleasantly surprised at how cheaply you can source a replacement. Do search around, prices can vary by 150% from source to source.

 

Tony

 

Thanks Tony but I don't get a low power warning - I just find that 10 minutes is sufficient time on the internet to check out anything new on my favourite sites and means it doesn't take too long to charge it back up again.

[WotEver]

Thanks Tony but I don't get a low power warning - I just find that 10 minutes is sufficient time on the internet to check out anything new on my favourite sites and means it doesn't take too long to charge it back up again.

Then you're all set to go with one of those Maplins jobbies

 

Just check the voltage and power requirements (it'll be written on the brick in the form of something like "19v DC 1.6A")

 

Tony

[RLWP]

Is it safe to run a laptop with no battery connected - just the power supply e.g the 12 volt to 19 volt inverter ?

 

I assume most people have laptops on the boat because it saves space - maybe the battery is not actually NEEDED, if you can work with it tied to the wall by cable ?

 

Nick

 

Yes, you can run a laptop with no battery. In fact we had one in with a bizarre software fault recently where if the battery was in, the keyboard and mouse didn't work. It was fine with the battery taken out

 

Richard

[Guest User]

What make of laptop is it? Did i read somewhere , might of been on this forum, that if it is a Dell that they are very picky on the charge voltage!

 

I tried using a generic 240v mains adpater with a Dell laptop and the two didn't get on well at all (the Dell went off in a huff even though the mains adapter gave it the 19.5 V required).

 

Is anyone succesfully using the 12v adpater gizmos with Dell laptops ?