Boats with no bow doors - opinions?

[mayalld]

I am sorry David buit I totally disagree.

 

It is perfectly safe to get off a boat at the bow, it is not a matter of where you get off, but a matter of how. If you attempt to leap off the bow locker across a 4ft gap, then the chances of an accident are much higher than if you stand on the gunwhale holding ont o the handrail and step off onto the bank once the boat has come to rest.

 

The issue is that if disembarking at the front, it is not possible for the steerer to indicate that NOW is the time to move.

[stewey]

The issue is that if disembarking at the front, it is not possible for the steerer to indicate that NOW is the time to move.

You obviously haven't heard Stewey yell

 

Stewey

[mayalld]

You obviously haven't heard Stewey yell

 

Stewey

 

Don't need to.

 

I can yell, but would prefer not to!

[sociable_hermit]

Given that my boat is a trad, getting crew off the boat at the bows is much safer than trying to use the stern. At the stern, I am in the way, and so is the tiller, and anyone attempting to avoid both myself and the tiller could very likely trip over a rope or simply fall off entirely, right next to the prop. The steps inside aren't really designed for ultra-frequent use either.

 

There's nothing wrong with getting off at the bows provided you manage the boat accordingly, and indeed it is far better for us. We have a system, and it works.

 

Getting on again can involve any combination of roof, gunnels, cratch or side hatch. Anywhere, in fact, apart from the stern.

[nb Innisfree]

Indeed, but that rather defeats the object!

 

The question is can a risk be avoided or mitigated whilst still achieving the objective.

 

Disembarking crew at the front has a risk of crush injury, that can be mitigated by disembarking them at the rear.

stepping over a single gate has a risk of falling from height that can be avoided by using the other gate.

 

Not in this instance as there is a risk of falling off the other gate, so risk will be mitigated, not avoided

[mayalld]

Not in this instance as there is a risk of falling off the other gate, so risk will be mitigated, not avoided

 

Not so!

 

In the initial case, there were 2 risks;

• Falling from a gate
  
• Falling whilst overstretching between gates
  

One risk was avoided, the other remains but is mitigated (because the likely consequences are less severe)

[Machpoint005]

The boat in question here has a cruiser stern. With a cruiser stern it's pretty pointless getting on or off at the front, when there is so much room at the back. It is also safer, because steerer and getter on-or-off can communicate easily (as Dave says).

 

Whe we bought our present boat I had doubts about the gunwales which are very narrow. In the event, it's not a problem at all, because nobody ever walks along them - we get on and off at the cruiser stern.

 

It may be different with a full length boat, or even a 60-footer, but I find it relatively easy to put the arsend in to the side first, to disembark the crew (boat is 48ft long). Steerer can them get off easily holding a centre line, and mooring up is a simple single-handed process.

 

Lack of bow doors? Well, we've gottem, and a cratch cover, but the foredeck is only used for sitting out in the sun. The Memsahib would miss this feature, I imagine, although when we are on speaking terms she brings a chair to the cruiser deck.

 

The boat for sale has side hatches near the front, so I would have thought the escape routes are OK. If this is the one that appeals to the OP, why worry about resale values? A boat that is a 'little bit different' will always have its appeal (so long as it's not completely off the wall and overpriced). After all, not everyone who can afford a BMW actually wants one!

[nb Innisfree]

Not so!

 

In the initial case, there were 2 risks;

• Falling from a gate
  
• Falling whilst overstretching between gates
  

One risk was avoided, the other remains but is mitigated (because the likely consequences are less severe)

 

HELP!

[Yoda]

I have not seen the boat but if the price is right, I'm sure that a door can be cut out or a large window. Personally I would not be happy without a method of escape from a 'room'.

[blackrose]

I'm not sure where this idea comes from that all narrowboats have to be the same? Is it just a canal thing?

Many other types of boat have no bow doors so why not a narrow boat. I quite like the idea and wanted the same thing on my widebeam but my builder was reluctant (for his own reasons).

 

Of course there will probably be less people who would be interested in buying a boat with no bow doors, so your potential resale market is reduced. However there's a punter for everything so resale value isn't necessarily less - it just might take a bit longer to sell..

[alan_fincher]

I have not seen the boat but if the price is right, I'm sure that a door can be cut out or a large window. Personally I would not be happy without a method of escape from a 'room'.

Canaltime boats built by SWDS do have ways out near the front, but they are side opening hatches each side on to the gunwale.

 

I know I'm rather dreaming up disaster situations, but I do wonder if you found yourself inside, bow high, in a narrow lock sinking incident, with the back already under water, whether you could get out.

 

Similarly a night time fire if you were moored up at say somewhere like Limehouse, with another boat breasted on the non-bank side. Certainly a hurried escape to dry land would be easier with conventional front doors.

 

Whilst a front window or hatch could be cut, there really isn't a lot of deck on these boats, so whilst good for escape, it still wouldn't provide a sitting out space away from the engine area.

 

That said, it's no worse than many of the narrow beam barge style boats that have proved popular with live-aboards.

 

I stand by my statement that I have seen well presented ex Canaltime boats fail to sell at prices that a more conventional boat of the same size, age and condition would. I definitely think the design reduces their resale value, but few people make money from boat ownership, so if a large unobstructed bed is high on your tick-list they might still be a good choice.

 

I'm not sure where this idea comes from that all narrowboats have to be the same? Is it just a canal thing?

I don't think there is such a view.

 

Or we would not have three different "stern types", nor traditonal engine room vs non traditional, nor even portholed vs non-portholed.

 

But the OP did ask if it was felt it would affect resale value. My view, based on ones I've seen up for sale, is "yes, probably".

 

I wouldn't make that my main driver though - if the poster thinks this boat is the best they have seen (for them), then they should buy it, and only worry about reselling if they ever need to. The differences in value will not be huge, after all, even if I am right in my view.

[Yoda]

Alan has actually highlighted what my biggest fear would be and that is fire by the exit door. So buy the boat and have a door or access hatch cut into the front of the boat.

 

How many people have candles lit near there bed at night? The biggest cause of house fires in this country.

[David Schweizer]

The issue is that if disembarking at the front, it is not possible for the steerer to indicate that NOW is the time to move.

You sound like some sort of control freak to me. Both my wife and I are perfectly capable of deciding when it is safe to get off the boat, without having to await instruction from the steerer. What speed to you approach the bank at, that requires you to give everyone else instructions?

Edited August 26, 2009 by David Schweizer

[blackrose]

I don't think there is such a view.

 

Or we would not have three different "stern types", nor traditonal engine room vs non traditional, nor even portholed vs non-portholed.

 

But the OP did ask if it was felt it would affect resale value. My view, based on ones I've seen up for sale, is "yes, probably".

 

I wouldn't make that my main driver though - if the poster thinks this boat is the best they have seen (for them), then they should buy it, and only worry about reselling if they ever need to. The differences in value will not be huge, after all, even if I am right in my view.

I think such a view exists on canals - our discussions are limited to the usual cruiser vs. trad stern etc, but if someone actually floats a different idea then most of us don't like it.

I put it down to a complete lack of imagination.

 

 

Also if we are talking about safety, don't forget than going uphill in a lock - no bow doors are safer because there's no well deck to flood.

On the question of resale value, if you get the boat for the right price in the first place it shouldn't be an issue..

Edited August 26, 2009 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

Double posting removed

Edited August 26, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Chertsey]

The issue is that if disembarking at the front, it is not possible for the steerer to indicate that NOW is the time to move.

Dave, I know that you hold that the steerer has the last say on EVERYTHING, but when I am stepping off the front of a boat, I move when *I* judge it to be safe, not when someone fifty feet away tells me to. The same for that matter if getting on or off the back.

[Peter R]

Personally i quite like the design. My first boat was a 30' with a solid, raised foredeck and that never caused me any problems. I also had no problem selling it when I moved on to a bigger boat. If it suits you then the only real issue is ensuring there is sufficient provision made for emergency escape in the event that you can't get to the back. My first boat had a pair of small doors that opened out onto the foredeck, which I think is a better solution than the side escape hatch - in a narrow lock for instance it could be a tight squeeze to get out the side.

 

An earlier post suggested that all boats of this design are ex-hire. I believe that to not be the case, as when I was boat-hunting several years ago I saw a couple of that design for sale that were brand new.

 

It is also worth casting the net further afield. I live in suffolk, but my first boat came from nottingham and the present one from macclesfield. If you're not entirely sure about the design, why not arrange to hire one of the canaltime boats for a few days and see how you get on. If you're not absolutely 'sold' on this one, keep looking and see what you can find. If you don't find anything that appeals to you more and it is still available, make them a silly offer - the worst they can do is say no!

 

Peter

[Yoda]

Well said Peter.

 

Bye the way, Happy new year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!r

[MoominPapa]

The issue is that if disembarking at the front, it is not possible for the steerer to indicate that NOW is the time to move.

We've learned the hard way that having the steerer dictate to the those getting off when to make a move is a bad idea. The people stepping ashore have to be left to go when they are happy that the step is within their capabilities, and being pressurised by the steerer leads to mistakes. As steerer in tricky wind/current situations it's very frustrating to get as close/slow as I can and have the lock crew not go, but I've learned to just shrug and go around again or adopt plan B.

 

MP.

Edited August 26, 2009 by MoominPapa

[RLWP]

No hard and fast rule here. Crew go off the front when I arrive at a lock, after all that's the closest bit to the lock. They get on again at the back.

 

Unless I drop them off the back at a bridge, or pick them up by putting the shallowest bit of the boat - the front - up to the bank.

 

They decide on the timing though. My job is to put the boat in the right place. They can get off/fall in when they are ready

 

Richard

[whitty1]

Personally i quite like the design. My first boat was a 30' with a solid, raised foredeck and that never caused me any problems. I also had no problem selling it when I moved on to a bigger boat. If it suits you then the only real issue is ensuring there is sufficient provision made for emergency escape in the event that you can't get to the back. My first boat had a pair of small doors that opened out onto the foredeck, which I think is a better solution than the side escape hatch - in a narrow lock for instance it could be a tight squeeze to get out the side.

 

An earlier post suggested that all boats of this design are ex-hire. I believe that to not be the case, as when I was boat-hunting several years ago I saw a couple of that design for sale that were brand new.

 

It is also worth casting the net further afield. I live in suffolk, but my first boat came from nottingham and the present one from macclesfield. If you're not entirely sure about the design, why not arrange to hire one of the canaltime boats for a few days and see how you get on. If you're not absolutely 'sold' on this one, keep looking and see what you can find. If you don't find anything that appeals to you more and it is still available, make them a silly offer - the worst they can do is say no!

 

Peter

That's exactly what we plan on doing Peter. We've just been looking locally to start with (actually physically looking rather than internet browsing). So far we've been on 7 since we've been looking to buy and that one really appealed to me. Whereas my husband was more concerned about the lack of front deck to sit out on. Hence the canvassing of opinion. Like i say though, we are off to Gayton marina in september and are planning to look around up there before & after our 5 day break as we've seen several we like the look of at Whilton & Greay Haywood.

 

I have to say, it's been fascinating following this thread. Seeing all the differing opinions and all the options to consider. I never realised there was such a debate as to which end you should disembark

 

Did I mention that one of the reasons I liked this one was because it had a pumpout toilet?!?!?.......

[Tim Lewis]

Hi everyone,

My husband & I are looking to buy our first narrowboat in the near future. Needless to say we've been looking at scores of boats for sale. One that we have found that we like is a 55ft reverse layout with the bedroom in the bow with no doors out to the bow deck. Which in itself it very small. There are hatches either side just before the bedroom cabin.

Now, this doesn't bother us and the boat ticks all the boxes, however my husband thinks this may affect the resale value in the future.

 

What is the general consensus about having little or no bow deck (bearing in mind it will just be the two of us on board and it has a cruiser stern).

 

Should this be avoided like the plague or is it really not a problem? Any opinions gratefully received as we are still mulling over options at the moment.

 

My Ex's boat has no bow doors, it makes for a useful layout inside but the photographer in me use to get frustrated at no easy access to the bow. I also think that is very restrictive if you have more than two of you on the boat as not everybody will want to be on the back deck together all of the time.

 

Tim

[Chris J W]

Alan has actually highlighted what my biggest fear would be and that is fire by the exit door. So buy the boat and have a door or access hatch cut into the front of the boat.

 

Which sounds like the perfect job for folk like the chap that did Baldock's tug-deck and Bones' side hatch - Martin Kedian (spl?)

 

 

No hard and fast rule here. Crew go off the front when I arrive at a lock, after all that's the closest bit to the lock. They get on again at the back.

 

Unless I drop them off the back at a bridge, or pick them up by putting the shallowest bit of the boat - the front - up to the bank.

 

They decide on the timing though. My job is to put the boat in the right place. They can get off/fall in when they are ready

 

I think it's known as Team Work!

 

[sociable_hermit]

They decide on the timing though. My job is to put the boat in the right place.

Richard

 

Spot on. None of this tedious telling people what to do malarkey!

[Dyad]

Hi everyone,

My husband & I are looking to buy our first narrowboat in the near future. Needless to say we've been looking at scores of boats for sale. One that we have found that we like is a 55ft reverse layout with the bedroom in the bow with no doors out to the bow deck. Which in itself it very small. There are hatches either side just before the bedroom cabin.

Now, this doesn't bother us and the boat ticks all the boxes, however my husband thinks this may affect the resale value in the future.

 

What is the general consensus about having little or no bow deck (bearing in mind it will just be the two of us on board and it has a cruiser stern).

 

Should this be avoided like the plague or is it really not a problem? Any opinions gratefully received as we are still mulling over options at the moment.

 

You could always put a bay window in the front like this one