Boats with no bow doors - opinions?

[adam1uk]

Hi everyone,

My husband & I are looking to buy our first narrowboat in the near future. Needless to say we've been looking at scores of boats for sale. One that we have found that we like is a 55ft reverse layout with the bedroom in the bow with no doors out to the bow deck. Which in itself it very small. There are hatches either side just before the bedroom cabin.

Now, this doesn't bother us and the boat ticks all the boxes, however my husband thinks this may affect the resale value in the future.

 

What is the general consensus about having little or no bow deck (bearing in mind it will just be the two of us on board and it has a cruiser stern).

 

Should this be avoided like the plague or is it really not a problem? Any opinions gratefully received as we are still mulling over options at the moment.

 

 

I agree that getting out quickly could be a problem, especially in a narrow lock, but you could always have some sort of hatch put in at the front.

 

Perhaps you should consider hiring a boat of this style, so you can see whether the claimed advantages work for you.

[mayalld]

You sound like some sort of control freak to me. Both my wife and I are perfectly capable of deciding when it is safe to get off the boat, without having to await instruction from the steerer. What speed to you approach the bank at, that requires you to give everyone else instructions?

 

You paint a lovely picture of how it isn't!

 

It isn't about anybody instructing. It is about an acceptance that the steerer is positioning the boat, and knows when he/she has the boat ready for people to get on and off. It avoids any confusion with the person moving on or off thinking that the steerer has stopped ready for them when in fact he/she is just about to speed up or steer.

 

It amounts to nothing more than me standing ready to get off, and Bev saying "OK" when she is happy that she isn't going to do anything that might cause danger to me. I then decide if I am happy with stepping off.

 

As to speed, when operating locks, we like to do so eficiently, and without excess macrame. First choice of process is to steer towards the bank at tickover, steer out to bring the stern in, and immediately I am off to straighten up mid-channel and bring the boat to a halt to await the lock. So I am typically stepping off at 1-2 mph

 

Dave, I know that you hold that the steerer has the last say on EVERYTHING, but when I am stepping off the front of a boat, I move when *I* judge it to be safe, not when someone fifty feet away tells me to. The same for that matter if getting on or off the back.

 

I step off the back when both the steerer AND I are happy that it is safe.

 

If Bev says "OK" and I am not happy to go, I don't go.

If I think it is OK, but Bev doesn't, I don't go.

 

We've learned the hard way that having the steerer dictate to the those getting off when to make a move is a bad idea. The people stepping ashore have to be left to go when they are happy that the step is within their capabilities, and being pressurised by the steerer leads to mistakes. As steerer in tricky wind/current situations it's very frustrating to get as close/slow as I can and have the lock crew not go, but I've learned to just shrug and go around again or adopt plan B.

 

MP.

 

It isn't an instruction. It is a joint agreement.

[Naughty Cal]

It seems that everbody has their own way of disembarking. As getting off our bow isnt an option we generally find that swinging the arse end in first is our best option, then one of us steps off and grabs the rail to pull the front in. In the mean time the other person gets off and if working locks holds the rail to keep the boat from going astray or if mooring up deals with the stern rope. Its a technique we have pretty much mastered over the last 12 months. Neither of us has to bark orders to the other we just know what each other are going to do. If the manouvre isnt going to plan the person getting ready to disembark doesnt step off.

[alan_fincher]

It isn't an instruction. It is a joint agreement.

Fair enough, but I can still see why I and others thought you were saying the steerer called the shots.....

 

The issue is that if disembarking at the front, it is not possible for the steerer to indicate that NOW is the time to move.

[Proper Job]

I think a plank is the best way to get rid of scurvy mutinous crew.

 

Nudged along with the tip of a sword and crocodile infested water

[Naughty Cal]

Do you still have to tell them when to jump?

[mayalld]

Fair enough, but I can still see why I and others thought you were saying the steerer called the shots.....

 

Yes, I can see why it would appear that way.

 

Broadly speaking, when Bev says "OK?" as I'm stood on the gunwhale, "OK" is short for "If you want to step off now, you can do. If you don't step off now, I will assume that it wasn't OK by you, and we will 'go around'"

[Naughty Cal]

I can see why she shortens it to OK

[mayalld]

I can see why she shortens it to OK

 

It i part of the bond between man and wife. One word can convey such a rich depth of meaning.

 

For example "fine".

 

Now, there is a word that can convey paragraphs of meaning when uttered by the fairer sex.

[Chris Pink]

My Ex's boat has no bow doors, it makes for a useful layout inside but the photographer in me use to get frustrated at no easy access to the bow. I also think that is very restrictive if you have more than two of you on the boat as not everybody will want to be on the back deck together all of the time.

 

Tim

 

Your boat doesn't have any bow doors either

[RLWP]

What's all this talk about bow doors?

 

 

 

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

Watched a programme about passenger ship design last night. It went into brief details on bow doors to car ferries and how designs have progressed.

[David Schweizer]

You paint a lovely picture of how it isn't!

 

It isn't about anybody instructing. It is about an acceptance that the steerer is positioning the boat, and knows when he/she has the boat ready for people to get on and off. It avoids any confusion with the person moving on or off thinking that the steerer has stopped ready for them when in fact he/she is just about to speed up or steer.

 

It amounts to nothing more than me standing ready to get off, and Bev saying "OK" when she is happy that she isn't going to do anything that might cause danger to me. I then decide if I am happy with stepping off.

 

As to speed, when operating locks, we like to do so eficiently, and without excess macrame. First choice of process is to steer towards the bank at tickover, steer out to bring the stern in, and immediately I am off to straighten up mid-channel and bring the boat to a halt to await the lock.So I am typically stepping off at 1-2 mph

 

 

 

I step off the back when both the steerer AND I are happy that it is safe.

 

If Bev says "OK" and I am not happy to go, I don't go.

If I think it is OK, but Bev doesn't, I don't go.

 

 

 

It isn't an instruction. It is a joint agreement.

You really should listen to yoursellf some time David. To me that still sounds like "I'm in charge don't do anything until I say it is OK." Doesn't your wife ever get the chance to order you about, or is your hand firmly glued to the tiller?

 

Quite honestly I am, not surprised that people need instructions withn the boat careering towards the bank at 2mph, how do you stop the thing from the towpath without everything inside crashing onto the floor at that sort of speed? I thought that you were concerned about safety.

Edited August 27, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Naughty Cal]

As to speed, when operating locks, we like to do so eficiently, and without excess macrame. First choice of process is to steer towards the bank at tickover, steer out to bring the stern in, and immediately I am off to straighten up mid-channel and bring the boat to a halt to await the lock. So I am typically stepping off at 1-2 mph

 

More interestingly than the points above. How do you step off at 1-2mph AND immediately set off to straighten up mid-channel?

 

I can only manage to do one or the other not both at the same time

[mayalld]

You really should listen to yoursellf some time David. To me that still sounds like "I'm in charge don't do anything until I say it is OK." Doesn't your wife ever get the chance to order you about, or is your hand firmly glued to the tiller?

 

Quite honestly I am, not surprised that people need instructions withn the boat careering towards the bank at 2mph, how do you stop the thing from the towpath without everything inside crashing onto the floor at that sort of speed? I thought that you were concerned about safety.

 

Do read it again.

 

• I do 95% of locks and bridges, so 95% of the time it is Bev who is in charge at these moments, and will be letting me know that I am OK to go.
  
• I don't stop the thing from the towpath. I step off, and Bev takes the boat back out, before slowing or stopping as necessary. We very seldom find it necessary to deploy a rope whilst approaching a lock. On the rare occasins where we intend to do so, our approach will be different.
  

[mayalld]

More interestingly than the points above. How do you step off at 1-2mph AND immediately set off to straighten up mid-channel?

 

I can only manage to do one or the other not both at the same time

 

I don't. Bev does.

 

It is called team work.

[David Schweizer]

Do read it again.

 

• I do 95% of locks and bridges, so 95% of the time it is Bev who is in charge at these moments, and will be letting me know that I am OK to go.
  
• I don't stop the thing from the towpath. I step off, and Bev takes the boat back out, before slowing or stopping as necessary. We very seldom find it necessary to deploy a rope whilst approaching a lock. On the rare occasins where we intend to do so, our approach will be different.
  

You are very good at trying to make your words mean something other than what you are saying, and that which everyone else is hearing.

 

It is impossible to have reasoned discussion with a chameleon.

Edited August 27, 2009 by David Schweizer

[mayalld]

You are very good at trying to make your words mean something other than what you are saying, and that which everyone else is hearing.

 

It is impossible to have reasoned discussion with a chamelion.

 

Unless they have changed the English language, I am merely having them mean exactly what the normally mean!

 

My previous post was perfectly explicit about both points;

• That I was the one stepping off, whilst Bev was issuing the "instructions"
  
• That after stepping off, the boat was continuing on its way, not being handled with ropes.
  

Now, that might be at odds with the picture that is being painted of me, but it is what I very clearly said.

 

If other people don't hear what is clearly said, they should read more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

[Naughty Cal]

Unless they have changed the English language, I am merely having them mean exactly what the normally mean!

 

My previous post was perfectly explicit about both points;

• That I was the one stepping off, whilst Bev was issuing the "instructions"
  
• That after stepping off, the boat was continuing on its way, not being handled with ropes.
  

Now, that might be at odds with the picture that is being painted of me, but it is what I very clearly said.

 

If other people don't hear what is clearly said, they should read more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

 

I do believe if you read it back Dave you say I and I whist referring to the two tasks at hand

 

(I highlighted it in post 89 for you)

Edited August 27, 2009 by Phylis

[Bones]

Given that my boat is a trad, getting crew off the boat at the bows is much safer than trying to use the stern. At the stern, I am in the way, and so is the tiller, and anyone attempting to avoid both myself and the tiller could very likely trip over a rope or simply fall off entirely, right next to the prop. The steps inside aren't really designed for ultra-frequent use either.

 

There's nothing wrong with getting off at the bows provided you manage the boat accordingly, and indeed it is far better for us. We have a system, and it works.

 

Getting on again can involve any combination of roof, gunnels, cratch or side hatch. Anywhere, in fact, apart from the stern.

 

 

true, but one has to pay special attention to the person at all times... sometimes they fall in and the steerer thinks they haven't got off after all and have gone inside... and their buddy becomes flat as a pancake.

[RLWP]

true, but one has to pay special attention to the person at all times... sometimes they fall in and the steerer thinks they haven't got off after all and have gone inside... and their buddy becomes flat as a pancake.

and then their skelington is not suited to being harvested by Bones!

 

Richard

[NB Alnwick]

and then their skelington is not suited to being harvested by Bones!

 

Richard

 

Don't you believe it!

[David Schweizer]

I do believe if you read it back Dave you say I and I whist referring to the two tasks at hand

 

(I highlighted it in post 89 for you)

 

Quote "....First choice of process is to steer towards the bank at tickover, steer out to bring the stern in, and immediately I am off to straighten up mid-channel and bring the boat to a halt to await the lock. So I am typically stepping off at 1-2 mph" Quote

 

 

Precisely, but then we all know he can walk on water!

Edited August 27, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Yoda]

Back to the actual problem.

 

Bow access is not really needed but can be useful. My fear is fire and lack of safe egress in that event.

 

Buy the boat with a mind to cut an access in the front. The thread earlier with the picture of a bow window with two opening windows would be a very good idea.

 

I can happily work a boat single handed with a long bow line. There is no need for anything else.

[mayalld]

Quote "....First choice of process is to steer towards the bank at tickover, steer out to bring the stern in, and immediately I am off to straighten up mid-channel and bring the boat to a halt to await the lock. So I am typically stepping off at 1-2 mph" Quote

 

Indeed.

 

I am describing a process involving two people, and drawing attention to what I am doing as part of that process.

 

It is abundantly clear that I step off the boat at 1-2 mph, and that immediately I have stepped off the boat is straightened up mid-channel. I should have imagined that it was obvious that the said straightening up must be performed by somebody who has not just stepped ashore.