Engine not starting - ideas / suggestions?

[saltysplash]

Also check that the engine stop is back in the run position....ours isnt spring loaded and needs to be pushed back once the engine has stopped

[steelaway]

Hi Becky

 

I would also get a compression test.

The overheating may have caused the rings to stick in the pistons - not obvious when only removing the head.

The compression on a compression ignition (diesel) engine needs to be very high

 

Alex

[Eeyore]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for all the tips and advice - keep your ideas coming!

 

Friendly lorry mechanic has offered to check out the timing, and I also want to redo the electrical connections as some of them look a bit rusty. Hoping to have another go this weekend if it's not snowing....but the forecast doesn't look good.

 

I haven't left you all, please keep your ideas flowing if you have any more.

 

Fingers crossed,

B

Head now back in gear

Unresponsive to easistart suggests lack of compression, so what would cause it to crank over slowly, even with a jump start?

Well maybe the timing is only one or two teeth out on the cam shaft sprocket.

In this case a valve may be slightly open during the compression stroke, but not open far enough to stop the engine turning.

The piston may well be just touching the valve at the top of its stroke; the effect being much the same as the "over centre" catches used on some tool boxes and cases.

You should be able to test for this.

Turn the engine over using a spanner on the crankshaft pulley nut until resistance is felt - then maintain a steady pull on the spanner.

If the resistance is caused by compression it will slowly ease as the pressure leaks away (this is normal leakage past the rings) allowing the engine to turn until the next cylinder is on its compression stroke.

If the resistance is due to valve contact it will stay in the same position. Pull harder on the spanner whilst watching the valves, you may notice some slight movement.

You can also confirm simply by looking at the valve clearances (easy on an overhead cam engine). Turn the engine until resistance is felt.

At this point both valves of the cylinder on compression stroke must be closed ie there nust be clearance between the "bucket" and the cam shaft.

Steve

Edited February 5, 2009 by Eeyore

[david and julie]

Looks like "bucket and shim" tappet adjustment.

I must admit I've never worked on or even seen one of these engines, is there a reason why you think it may be OHC?

[MoominPapa]

I must admit I've never worked on or even seen one of these engines, is there a reason why you think it may be OHC?

Someone posted a link to an online copy of the manual, which has diagrams showing an OHC head.

 

MP.

[Eeyore]

Someone posted a link to an online copy of the manual, which has diagrams showing an OHC head.

 

MP.

You beat me to it

Its on page 50 from that link on post #6 from "Pretty Funked Up"

The page showing tappet adjustment is one of those generic diagrams - which just happens to be OHV

Steve

Edited February 5, 2009 by Eeyore

[mrsmelly]

 

There never have been many three cylinder car engines

 

True

Tho the wartburg Knight had a 3 cylinder two stroke I luvved the sound and the smell was great..........

[david and julie]

You beat me to it

Its on page 50 from that link on post #6 from "Pretty Funked Up"

The page showing tappet adjustment is one of those generic diagrams - which just happens to be OHV

Steve

my mistake, I didn't notice the link.

[sociable_hermit]

 

There never have been many three cylinder car engines

 

True

Tho the wartburg Knight had a 3 cylinder two stroke I luvved the sound and the smell was great..........

 

Mitsubishi Colt?

[david and julie]

There never have been many three cylinder car engines, so this may have been your brothers first.

I've never given these 3 pot Isuzu engines much thought before, but I have a feeling I may of thrown a good one out last year.

 

It was out of a Daihatsu Charade and was a 3 cylinder OHC diesel of just under 1 Litre. Isuzu and Daihatsu both belong to General Motors and I can't see them making many small OHC diesels.

[lazyboy]

Up to 18 months ago Isuzu manufactured two 3 cylinder diesels the 3LB and 3LD both types were used in construction machines like small excavators. Under a licensing agreement with Yanmar, Isuzu now badge the 3 cylinder Yanmar range and call them the 3CB, 3CD,3CE. The 3CB is marinised as the Isuzu 25.

[Brin Morris]

Hi All,

 

I'm having a bit of a nightmare with my boat at the moment, and cannot get her started for love nor money (and I'm rapidly running out of both).

 

Brief rundown:

Isuzu 3kc1 3 cylinder engine

 

Problem 1: Alternator mounting bracket snapped, causing her not to charge

Problem 2: Hole in coolant pipe to engine, caused by alternator blades cutting through it

Problem 3: All of above was fixed, engine wouldn't restart. Starter motor tried to turn her over more slowly than normal. Brother (who does quite a bit of work on cars, used to be mechanic) came to troubleshoot engine issue, spent LONG time trying to get her to go, wouldn't even fire on easy start. Deduced head gasket gone. Stripped the head, took it to be pressure tested and reconditioned. Was confirmed that head gasket had gone between piston 2 and 3, presumably as a result of boat losing coolant and overheating when it last ran. Head gasket was also replaced.

 

So, facts:

Ran OK before all this

Definitely got fuel (in tank, and at injectors)

Won't fire on easy start (so unlikely to be fuel problem??)

Tried jumping batteries to brother's car, in case my battery was dead, no luck.

Glow plugs heating as expected (bro tested them)

 

Any ideas what I should be trying next please? Got a few people who are more mechanical than I and willing to help, but need to know where we should be looking next!

 

Cheers,

B

You say there is fuel at the injectors, is this when it turns over. If you have fuel at the injectors when you loosen on of the injector pipes and turn over the engine then you can work on timing or battery problems as everything else before this pump, stop , fuel etc. My worry would be it not starting on easy start. Take the advice of several others , air filter for correct flow,. did you check the engine turned over when the head was off as if it had overheated could you have caused other damage which are stopping it turning over. Check the easy bits first borrow a good battery , check air filter ,check timing. Check you are getting fuel up to the injectors.

[BeckyJC]

Going to have another go at it this weekend, having had a bit of a break due to weather. Not sure how to do timing myself (I'm no mechanic), so I reckon my first target will be electrics and also removing the alternator belt in case that's causing unnecessary load.

 

This time lucky!

 

B

[Bones]

check the starter motor.

[Proper Job]

check the starter motor.

What for? Spots - pink tutu's - 5 O'clock shadow

[BeckyJC]

What for? Spots - pink tutu's - 5 O'clock shadow

 

hmmm starter motor is going, but doesn't sound as fast as normal trying to start it. What exactly should I be looking at/for?

 

Cheers,

B

[steelaway]

hmmm starter motor is going, but doesn't sound as fast as normal trying to start it. What exactly should I be looking at/for?

 

Cheers,

B

 

 

Hi Becky

 

I can call around tommorow if you contact me.

In the mean time keep the battery('s) charged.

 

Alex

[Sir Nibble]

hmmm starter motor is going, but doesn't sound as fast as normal trying to start it. What exactly should I be looking at/for?

 

Cheers,

B

All this after some engine work? Bets the earth lead has been left off. No glow plugs either then. Steelaway will doubtless let us all know when he's seen it. Hope the throttle or stop cables haven't cooked.

[BeckyJC]

All this after some engine work? Bets the earth lead has been left off. No glow plugs either then. Steelaway will doubtless let us all know when he's seen it. Hope the throttle or stop cables haven't cooked.

Thanks again for all the suggestions,

 

Which Earth lead? The glow plugs were working when my brother tested them.... My stop cable was damaged during all the other work, but the engine stop is now definitely where it's supposed to be (i.e. not in the "stop" position).

 

Really hoping we can get to the bottom of it soon...surely there can't be MUCH left to go wrong?! Famous last words, eh?

 

List of easy-ish things to check / try now includes:

 

Charge battery

Disconnect alternator in case it is faulty - possible, as that's where all this trouble began

Disconnect all the other electrics from the starter / starting circuit and redo cabling / clean connections

Bleed fuel at fuel pump to be double-sure there's no air (suggested by friendly truck mechanic)

 

Got all my fingers and toes crossed this time, as I need to get to my new mooring and would prefer to cruise there than be towed!

 

B

[BeckyJC]

Hi All,

 

Right, I *think* we've found the problem. Hopefully.

 

Charged the starter battery up this morning, and also took the alternator belt off to remove it from the equation. As the alternator was where all my trouble began, it made sense to me to eliminate it for now.

 

Tried to start her up, and she is now turning over at what sounds to me like the "normal" rate - definitely much quicker. When she tries to turn over, there is an intermittent "knocking" noise from the engine - definitely not heard this one before. Am I right in thinking that we should now be checking the timing?

 

Think I'm going to leave the alternator disconnected for now and get to the bottom of the engine issue before I put it on - that should be OK, right?

 

It's incredible to think that this all began from a 3-quid alternator bracket snapping!!!

 

Cheers,

B (Feeling more optimistic about all this than I have for a while now)

[Eeyore]

Hi All,

 

Right, I *think* we've found the problem. Hopefully.

 

Charged the starter battery up this morning, and also took the alternator belt off to remove it from the equation. As the alternator was where all my trouble began, it made sense to me to eliminate it for now.

 

Tried to start her up, and she is now turning over at what sounds to me like the "normal" rate - definitely much quicker. When she tries to turn over, there is an intermittent "knocking" noise from the engine - definitely not heard this one before. Am I right in thinking that we should now be checking the timing?

 

Think I'm going to leave the alternator disconnected for now and get to the bottom of the engine issue before I put it on - that should be OK, right?

 

It's incredible to think that this all began from a 3-quid alternator bracket snapping!!!

 

Cheers,

B (Feeling more optimistic about all this than I have for a while now)

Re timing - give my previous post a go, you probably know rather a lot about your engine by now, so it should be straight foward.

I can probably make it less technical, let me know which bits you need help with.

 

You don't mention if there is any smoke from the exhaust during cranking?

Steve

[bottle]

BeckyJC

 

As you have removed the alternator and drive belt, I doubt that the water pump is running.

 

Assuming it does not have a remote pump.

[smileypete]

Tried to start her up, and she is now turning over at what sounds to me like the "normal" rate - definitely much quicker. When she tries to turn over, there is an intermittent "knocking" noise from the engine - definitely not heard this one before. Am I right in thinking that we should now be checking the timing?

 

Could try a compression test if not done already.

 

If that fails possibly the piston rings aren't sealing well or the valve timing is out.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited February 15, 2009 by smileypete

[BeckyJC]

Right, don't think it is the timing now afterall. Just had friendly mechanical engineer over to take a look at my engine - he turned it over by hand and checked the timing marks / chain alignment. Also said it sounded OK turning over... was getting fuel at the injectors...BUT it seems that 2 of the glow plugs are dead (0 voltage on 2 of them and 11.x volts on the other one, tested repeatedly to be sure).

 

My brother had already tested the glow plugs when he had them out (and thought they were OK), but maybe something happened when he was putting them back in. So my darling boyfriend is off to try and get some replacement glow plugs tomorrow. I will be SO SO SO pleased if this actually fixes it now.

 

Fingers crossed,

B

[OptedOut]

My brother had already tested the glow plugs when he had them out (and thought they were OK), but maybe something happened when he was putting them back in. So my darling boyfriend is off to try and get some replacement glow plugs tomorrow. I will be SO SO SO pleased if this actually fixes it now.

 

Cracked elements?