Use Of Short Term Visitor Moorings as "Winter Moorings"

[alan_fincher]

Wa have come down to London, and found that at both of the popular spots at Brentford and Paddington basin some of the spaces that would normally be 7 day or 14 day moorings are unavailable as BW are letting them out instead as "winter moorings".

 

According to a warden here (Paddington) this is the second year it has been done here.

 

We have had no real problems, but Brentford would have been difficult had we not been allowed to breast up with "Black Rose".

 

I feel my licence costs enough that I should not find additional restrictions on mooring if my cruise doesn't happen to be in the summer months.

 

What do others think, please ?

[Lady Muck]

It's hard to find space in London to moor when it's not winter. I'm not entirely happy about it, no. There are plenty of places in London that aren't the central bits that visitors want to moor at.

 

Personally, I'm puzzled as to why they don't let winter moorings near us (North of Tottenham Lock and North of Stonebridge Lock). It's close to the tube (20 mins to Oxford Circus), near the train and lots of buses, big retail park, services - pump out, elsan, water, showers , cafe etc. Plus most of all there's lots of space and you wouldn't be in anybodys' way. There are no houses to overlook you and nobody to disturb.

 

Often we have to change our cruise plans because it's too busy. I've often wanted to moor overnight near Springfield marina on the way back from a cruise. Handy for Walthamstow market and a nice big marsh to walk the dog on. Haven't managed to do so yet as it's always rammed.

[GUMPY]

Never been a problem for me as I usually dont use the popular VM in London.

At Brentford for example I always go just above Thames lock rather than the basin, its a shorter walk to the pub and if stopping for a day or so in that area I stop at Hanwell.

The only VM that I ever try and use is Islington and thats always full no matter when you go.

Letting VM as winter moorings is nothing new I had one in Stoke Bruene 15 years ago.......... its a good source of income for BW and helps those that want to stay in one area for the winter.

 

so I voted yes.

 

Julian

[Nightwatch]

If we are talking national then I think they could be allocated as winter moorings,if, there are some available free to use as a visitor. I also believe that BW should be transparent and publish the revenue gain from such lettings. But then again I'm only a fully paid up boater.

Martyn

[Lady Muck]

Never been a problem for me as I usually dont use the popular VM in London.

At Brentford for example I always go just above Thames lock rather than the basin, its a shorter walk to the pub and if stopping for a day or so in that area I stop at Hanwell.

The only VM that I ever try and use is Islington and thats always full no matter when you go.

Letting VM as winter moorings is nothing new I had one in Stoke Bruene 15 years ago.......... its a good source of income for BW and helps those that want to stay in one area for the winter.

 

so I voted yes.

 

Julian

 

You are right that its nothing new but there are many more cc boats in London than there used to be, it's quite noticeable. Even near us, three years aggo there'd be one or two boats moored in the two pounds, now its more like 30 - thats quite an increase!

 

It's putting alot of pressure on the visitor moorings in the centre. I think BW should review where their winter moorings in London should be and try and keep the popular central ones a bit clearer so that visitors can get a look in.

[GUMPY]

You are right that its nothing new but there are many more cc boats in London than there used to be, it's quite noticeable. Even near us, three years aggo there'd be one or two boats moored in the two pounds, now its more like 30 - thats quite an increase!

 

It's putting alot of pressure on the visitor moorings in the centre. I think BW should review where their winter moorings in London should be and try and keep the popular central ones a bit clearer so that visitors can get a look in.

 

Indeed its 4 years or so since we were up The Lea/Stort so I would probarbly be taken aback now by the numbers.

Maybe next year if we cant get to the Blackwater again.....

 

J

[KenK]

I used a "winter mooring" to overnight on the K&A two days ago, nearly dark, nice 60 ft open space on the visitor mooring, pulled over and settled in for the night. Next morning I found we had moored next to one our friends he told me I was on the "winter mooring" but no one had taken it up. A short time later, just before we set off, a BW employee knocked on the window and told me I was in using someone elses mooring, I asked for the name of the boat which he could not supply, when asked if in fact the mooring was not in use he did admit that was the case. In that case I said it is still a visitor mooring for which I pay a licence fee to use.

 

By the end of October BW should know how many boats require a winter mooring and should have them allocated, anything else should revert back to a visitor mooring.

 

Ken

[cotswoldsman]

By the end of October BW should know how many boats require a winter mooring and should have them allocated, anything else should revert back to a visitor mooring.

 

Ken

 

Winter moorings don't have to be booked in advance an can just be taken adhock I know quite a few CCers who in the winter will take maybe 2/3 winter moorings in different places just a month at a time.

 

I voted yes firstly as it creates extra revenue for BW and though I take on board the point of a potential shortage of 24/48 hour moorings during the winter it is my experience that with the exception of Christmas and New Year there are very few boats moving arround once the winter stopages start.

 

I should just add that I have no knowledge of the London Area, but as an example I am presently moored on 48 hours mooring Coole Pilate on the Shropshire enough room here for about 20 boats when I arrived yesterday there was one other boat another 2 have moored since but I imagine most probably only for the night to get above Audlem before closures on Monday.

Edited October 31, 2008 by cotswoldsman

[stickleback]

" it is my experience that with the exception of Christmas and New Year there are very few boats moving arround once the winter stopages start."

 

But isn't this partly chickens and eggs - shorter days, less hours to cruise, having to decide where to moor fairly early in the afternoon and then - no where to moor as they have become winter moorings. It makes planning a cruise much more difficult in the winter months and surely acts as a deterrent?

 

With the ever increasing number of boat owners on the system, there must be an ever increasing number who would want to plan winter cruises. Shame if they then don't simply because they can't moor anywhere near to a shop, pub, any where in fact that might be pleasant because it's been "winterised".

 

Stickleback

[koukouvagia]

With the ever increasing number of boat owners on the system, there must be an ever increasing number who would want to plan winter cruises. Shame if they then don't simply because they can't moor anywhere near to a shop, pub, any where in fact that might be pleasant because it's been "winterised".

 

Stickleback

 

It's not only winter cruises but the odd day's boating. Bulbourne on Tring summit is a good example of this. The moorings by the picnic area make a perfect destination for a day out from nearby Cowroast. It’s very frustrating to find these permanently clogged by a small colony of liveaboard boats during the winter months.

Also there's no means of knowing whether a boat has BW's permission to have a winter mooring, or whether it's sneaking in and hoping not to be noticed.

[cotswoldsman]

It's not only winter cruises but the odd day's boating. Bulbourne on Tring summit is a good example of this. The moorings by the picnic area make a perfect destination for a day out from nearby Cowroast. It’s very frustrating to find these permanently clogged by a small colony of liveaboard boats during the winter months.

Also there's no means of knowing whether a boat has BW's permission to have a winter mooring, or whether it's sneaking in and hoping not to be noticed.

 

Oh no not a web site for reporting boats without mooring cert. BW only issue winter mooring stickker if you are taking moorings for over 3 months.

 

Good idea to leave the moorings empty just in case someone wants to spend the odd night.

 

Guess maybe the answer is just to allocate say 75% of moorings for winter moorings.

Edited October 31, 2008 by cotswoldsman

[carlt]

I understand they're setting up a website so people can check to see if total strangers are wiping, properly.

[John Orentas]

You are right that its nothing new but there are many more cc boats in London than there used to be, it's quite noticeable. Even near us, three years aggo there'd be one or two boats moored in the two pounds, now its more like 30 - thats quite an increase!

 

It's putting alot of pressure on the visitor moorings in the centre. I think BW should review where their winter moorings in London should be and try and keep the popular central ones a bit clearer so that visitors can get a look in.

 

 

 

"There are many more cc boats in London than there used to be".

 

Why won't this silly terminology go away, if they were genuine continuous cruisers they would be 'continuously cruising' and by definition they would not be hanging around London or anywhere else..

 

There is a real danger now, because of a constant barrage of these sentiments people who do genuinely cruise the waterways rather than the majority who are the equivalent of waterways squatters will be lumped together with the other not so reputable boaters and penalised for no other reason that they form a minority.

[KenK]

Oh no not a web site for reporting boats without mooring cert. BW only issue winter mooring stickker if you are taking moorings for over 3 months.

 

Good idea to leave the moorings empty just in case someone wants to spend the odd night.

 

Guess maybe the answer is just to allocate say 75% of moorings for winter moorings.

 

It was my understanding, based I have to say on very limited experience I've only booked a winter mooring once, that they are allocated according to demand. I booked mine in August, for six months Oct to March, I filled in the form and paid in advance. On the form I could have requested several different locations but again in advance with dates. BW, according to a fried who is moored on one at Kintbury this winter, check the moorings every few days so not much chance of slipping in without paying. Hungerford where I had mine has none this year possibly due to lack of demand.

 

Ken

[WJM]

As one of the very few 'hardy enthusiast' boaters who actually moves about in London during winter, I can confirm that there is very little movement at this time. The vast majority are either live-aboards who stay put or non-residential who just dont use their boats. The visitor mooring opposite me in Brentford would otherwise be almost empty in winter if BW didn't put them to use like they do. They might as well get some use out of them.

 

That said, I have never ever seen a space to moor at Islington at any time of the year. Looks to me like they are being hogged by the 'unreasonables'

[Lady Muck]

As one of the very few 'hardy enthusiast' boaters who actually moves about in London during winter, I can confirm that there is very little movement at this time. The vast majority are either live-aboards who stay put or non-residential who just dont use their boats. The visitor mooring opposite me in Brentford would otherwise be almost empty in winter if BW didn't put them to use like they do. They might as well get some use out of them.

 

That said, I have never ever seen a space to moor at Islington at any time of the year. Looks to me like they are being hogged by the 'unreasonables'

 

I think everyones in agreement about Islington. You have absolutely no chance. Never been able to moor there ever and I've heard its not that boater freindly either, that people in the the houses that overlook the moorings complain about stoves and generators constantly.

 

Also Camden moorings are a bit shorter than they used to be. Apparently there used to be a boater moored there almost permanently, who would burn house coal all day long in winter. The flats that overlook that mooring complained to BW - they evicted him and made the moornigs shorter. Grr!

 

John: by cc boats I mean boats with cc licenses. It's not up to me to judge whether they are abiding by the rules or not, it's bw's job.

 

I'm with Koukouvagia. If it's only a two day trip we fancy, we'll cancel it if the moorings situation is a bit dodgy. I really want to go up to town in a couple of weeks, but I don't know if we'll be able to moor!

[koukouvagia]

I think everyones in agreement about Islington. You have absolutely no chance. Never been able to moor there ever and I've heard its not that boater freindly either, that people in the the houses that overlook the moorings complain about stoves and generators constantly.

 

I've never understood why more use isn't made of Browning's Pool at Little Venice. A row of end-on 48 hour pontoon moorings would make a huge difference to visitors who neither wanted to risk the uncertainties of Delamere Terrace or the windy wasteland of Paddington Basin.

[LEO]

It's not only winter cruises but the odd day's boating. Bulbourne on Tring summit is a good example of this. The moorings by the picnic area make a perfect destination for a day out from nearby Cowroast. It’s very frustrating to find these permanently clogged by a small colony of liveaboard boats during the winter months.

Also there's no means of knowing whether a boat has BW's permission to have a winter mooring, or whether it's sneaking in and hoping not to be noticed.

 

BW have recently appointed a full time boat checker along this stretch who seems to be very diligent, a boat which arrived with 2 BW overstay stickers and acquired 3 more during a 12 week visit has recently moved. The line of mooring rings carefully installed along this stretch by BW when events were held at the former BW Bulbourne workshops facilitate easy mooring.

 

ALBI

Edited October 31, 2008 by LEO

[alan_fincher]

The visitor mooring opposite me in Brentford would otherwise be almost empty in winter if BW didn't put them to use like they do. They might as well get some use out of them.

Fair comment.

 

But whilst there may be only a hardy core of people boating true mid-winter, that's not the case, for example this (half term) week.

 

We have seen lots of boats moving, and two forum boats have visited Brentford this week.

 

Other than breasting up, no moorings were available, and had we not known Mike, breasting up may have been hard, with so many of the moored boats apparently unoccupied, with nobody to ask.

 

OK, all the space may not be needed now, but any use as winter moorings should not leave a situation where casual mooring is nigh on impossible.

 

Alan

[cotswoldsman]

Fair comment.

 

But whilst there may be only a hardy core of people boating true mid-winter, that's not the case, for example this (half term) week.

 

 

Alan

 

Would have thought that this week (half term) was still autumn. A lot different to last February when I had to break ice to move and get water. Alan again can't speak for London but during December, January and February other boaters moving round the system with the exception of CCers without winter moorings is very rare.

[Keeping Up]

Fair comment.

 

But whilst there may be only a hardy core of people boating true mid-winter, that's not the case, for example this (half term) week.

 

We have seen lots of boats moving, and two forum boats have visited Brentford this week.

 

Other than breasting up, no moorings were available, and had we not known Mike, breasting up may have been hard, with so many of the moored boats apparently unoccupied, with nobody to ask.

 

OK, all the space may not be needed now, but any use as winter moorings should not leave a situation where casual mooring is nigh on impossible.

 

Alan

Totally agreed there Alan. Even in the first week of October there were a couple of occasions when we had difficulty in finding a mooring that wasn't marked as "reserved for winter mooring"; we had to cruise on right past a couple of the places that we'd hoped to stop and thought we were eventually going to have to resort to just using one of them anyway. They should always leave at least a couple of visitors moorings available for visitors (although of course the chances are they'll be permanently occupied by a couple of boats who want to moor for the winter but don't want to pay for the privilege)

 

 

(Edited to remove a spurious 'L')

Edited November 1, 2008 by Keeping Up

[John Orentas]

You've all been 'suckered' into this situation, there is no such thing as 'winter moorings' there is, or not never should be 'a cruising' season and certainly never a closed season.. Sadly there is a new culture of laziness creeping into the management of BW, I was at a meeting recently with some BW people, one of whom told me that he saw no reason why the canal (Rochdale) should be open at all on Sundays.

 

Be on your guard, these stupid attitudes are spreading, the canals from their earliest days have been open to traffic for 365 days per year, by act of parliament in most cases, you pay for a 12 month licence you should all be demanding full use of the waterways system all year long..

 

Use them or loose them

Edited November 2, 2008 by John Orentas

[Chris J W]

I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no such thing as a winter mooring"

 

There are places, November to March, where you can moor and pay for a permit to not have to move after 14D (or how ever long), so isn't that a 'winter mooring' ?

[Keeping Up]

Here's an added confusion; in Boston the river is not navigable during the winter, so they let out the only two narrowboat-friendly visitor moorings to permanent residents as 'seasonal' moorings for the whole summer. One of them had gone away cruising for the summer so we 'borrowed' their mooring for a night.

[alan_fincher]

Would have thought that this week (half term) was still autumn.

It appears to count as "winter" as far as allocating space as "winter moorings" goes!

 

You've all been 'suckered' into this situation, there is no such thing as 'winter moorings'

You may wish that to be the case John, and undoubtedly 20 or 30 years ago it was true. Certainly something new to me since I returned to the canals.

 

But the reality is they do exist, and in increasing numbers it would seem.