Wheel steering

[carlt]

This would have been their (rapidly zooming in) view:

 

As there was no damage to my, or any other, boat I guess they handled the situation a lot better than I would have done.

[mykaskin]

My parents own a 30 ft steel narrow cruiser, which steers with a wheel from near the front of the boat. If you ever want a steering challenge, the wheel is on an unbalanced hydraulic system (i.e. more turns on way than the other, and no center point on the wheel), no rudder indicator (you have to see what happens and adjust for it, though you can get it close to center if needed).

 

Of course, steering from the front doesn't help either as you can't line the boat up even when going down a straight bit of canal let alone a narrow lock. Then the steering ram isn't quite as long as it should be so sometimes going around tight corners can be fun!

 

The only advantage, it being on a Enfield Z drive, is that you can steer in reverse (though it often involves lots of frantic wheel spinning to stop without heading in the wrong direction), and it will wind up to allow you to clear the prop!

 

You can see all you need here:

 

http://shoestring.zapto.org/pics/Hols98/index.html

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[Timleech]

This....

 

Though I'm not sure I could force the single rudder against two props and 26 tons, unless I eats me spinach!

 

I think, if the hydraulics fail, I'll be dropping the hook and calling SAR on the radio.

 

A lot of emergency tillers would be intended for use with blocks & tackles rather than simply manually.

 

Tim

[Gary Peacock]

We have just done one with Vetus follow-up steering that uses a small handle to steer-

 

 

Its also got a second handheld remote you can use too. After a bit of initial excitement yesterday getting used to it the consensus was it's better than a wheel!

 

The downside being price and complexity compared to a bit of bent bar.

[Timleech]

We have just done one with Vetus follow-up steering that uses a small handle to steer-

 

 

Its also got a second handheld remote you can use too. After a bit of initial excitement yesterday getting used to it the consensus was it's better than a wheel!

 

The downside being price and complexity compared to a bit of bent bar.

 

That sort of thing has been commonplace on ships & barges for a long time, I reckon for a boat which spends most of its time working in a restricted channel you can't beat a setup which gives direct feedback to your hands, either via tiller or wheel.

 

Is the Vetus system electric, hydraulic or a combination of the two?

What sort of money?

What about manual backup?

 

Tim

[Gary Peacock]

That sort of thing has been commonplace on ships & barges for a long time, I reckon for a boat which spends most of its time working in a restricted channel you can't beat a setup which gives direct feedback to your hands, either via tiller or wheel.

 

Is the Vetus system electric, hydraulic or a combination of the two?

What sort of money?

What about manual backup?

 

Tim

 

The system is electro hydraulic the actual power to move the rudder is provided by a hydraulic ram/cylinder powered from an electrically driven pump/EHP.

 

 

 

 

Reversing the direction the pump runs in changes the direction the ram moves in.

 

The control handles work in conjunction with a rudder position indicator and a control box to tie it all together.

 

The system as a number of backups in the picture above a standard hand powered wheel can still provide steering via the ram if the electrical system fails alternatively if the electronics were to fail the motor can still be controlled via a mechanical switch box giving some crude control.

 

The main backup in all these cases will be an emergency tiller and a means to bypass the hydraulics.

 

Cost wise you could do a system with one control handle only for about £3,000.00 for a 60ft barge a narrowboat system would be a bit cheaper because you could use lighter components.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[bigcol]

I know this is a old topic but was wondering how Gary is getting on with his follow up steering from vetus?

 

Reading Blackroses post made me smile, as you know I have a barge replica,

also finding steering wheel use on the canals very dificult .Even had RAY from the forum take our boat out proving that it was operator problem.

 

Also have been advised I should have emergency steering on the boat,

so have looked at having a tiller installed which would come to about 2 grand!!!

Im thinking this follow on steering would get me out on the boat more

 

Are their any other folks that have this system from vetus are their other makes etc

 

Col

Edited May 22, 2013 by bigcol

[Grace and Favour]

Col, I think Gary Peacock left the forum a while ago......

 

We have (Vetus) wheel steering on our widebeam, AND have an emergency tiller (and the required hydraulic bypass valve) fitted too

 

I appreciate that fitting a tiller on to a flat stern such as we have will be cheaper than on a barge stern - - but I do wonder where your respondents quote of £2k was devised.

 

Have you sought quotes from other fabricators?

[carlt]

Also have been advised I should have emergency steering on the boat,

so have looked at having a tiller installed which would come to about 2 grand!!!

Did the same person recommend a back-up tiller for your car?

[mrsmelly]

Did the same person recommend a back-up tiller for your car?

I tend to agree. both our boats at work have emergency tiller steering fitted I would use the engines and frontal underwater hairdryer to steer in reality if the hydraulics failed. We have tried both methods and the engines steer the best in what would be an emrgency situation in our position.

 

Tim

[bargemast]

I tend to agree. both our boats at work have emergency tiller steering fitted I would use the engines and frontal underwater hairdryer to steer in reality if the hydraulics failed. We have tried both methods and the engines steer the best in what would be an emrgency situation in our position.

 

Tim

 

Of course steering with just your engines is only effective if you go really slow, which is likely in an emergency case, as the more speed you have, the less your steering with the engines will have the desired effect.

 

Peter.

[bigcol]

Did the same person recommend a back-up tiller for your car?

 

I agree, I had a grp boat sports crusier on the coast, only one wheel!!

 

 

Of course steering with just your engines is only effective if you go really slow, which is likely in an emergency case, as the more speed you have, the less your steering with the engines will have the desired effect.

 

Peter.

 

again with the twin engine boat down the coast used both engines to steer

 

but I only have one engine now, so thats out?

I have hydrolic steering but if this vetus follow hand steering will be easier to use on the canals, and also act as emergency steering?

 

 

Col, I think Gary Peacock left the forum a while ago......

 

We have (Vetus) wheel steering on our widebeam, AND have an emergency tiller (and the required hydraulic bypass valve) fitted too

 

I appreciate that fitting a tiller on to a flat stern such as we have wil

l be cheaper than on a barge stern - - but I do wonder where your respondents quote of £2k was devised.

 

Have you sought quotes from other fabricators?

I will get another quote, but that included the making of the tiller and bits, and puting secondary throtle etc on the back cabin roof,

 

can you get a tiller kit? but I did think it sounded expensive this is by the welder here in the yard

thanks

 

col

[bargemast]

I agree, I had a grp boat sports crusier on the coast, only one wheel!!

 

 

again with the twin engine boat down the coast used both engines to steer

 

but I only have one engine now, so thats out?

 

 

col

 

Hello Col, my reaction was on Tim's post where he's writing about the passengerboats at his job, and the operate a.f.a.i.k. on a river.

 

This is not comparable with a twin-engined GRP cruiser at sea, with next to no weight, and plenty of space for your turning circles, and no or maybe a rare narrowboat to avoid, definitely not the same on an inland waterway.

 

Success with your tiller steering system installation.

 

Peter.

Edited May 22, 2013 by bargemast

[ditchcrawler]

What is the worst that could happen if you don't have emergency steering? you get towed to a boat yard and get your wheel steering fixed.

So you spend 2 grand on an emergency steering and drive to the yard to get the wheel system fixed.

What if the engine fails, do you carry an outboard in case?

[fudd]

 

I think it's called a 'jury rig' (or is that only for a DIY botch job?)

 

Anyway, the barge I was on didn't have one and I discussed this with the owner. If the cables or hydraulics break and you have no back up then it's all hands to their panic stations!

Last year we did the Thames to Oxford and went up the Oxford canal then back down the GU. We left Braunston at the same time as The Jam 'ole run which we were asked to join by T Coghlan. After about two hours of racing I went to navigate a rather sharp right hander and just went straight on. The tiller arm did a 360. A bolt had come loose from our 'revolutionary new steering system' linkage and we had absolutely no control. Couldn't slow down or anything. Shit meself I did, and no mistake. So a back up would be nice. But what back up can you have with a tiller arm?

Steve P.

[Bee]

I think its a requirement to have a backup system with all the CE rules and regs but its not easy to build a tiller in, I have a socket and a bit of pipe that may just about work but its behind the wheelhouse so only slightly useful, as for wheel vs. tiller, you soon get used to it and when it`s wet, cold and windy and I am in the warm with tea and biscuits it`s brilliant.

[mrsmelly]

I think its a requirement to have a backup system with all the CE rules and regs but its not easy to build a tiller in, I have a socket and a bit of pipe that may just about work but its behind the wheelhouse so only slightly useful, as for wheel vs. tiller, you soon get used to it and when it`s wet, cold and windy and I am in the warm with tea and biscuits it`s brilliant.

Funny how we all differ. At work both my boats have wheelhouses and wheel steering. my own boat is tiller and no wheelhouse or pram hood heaven forbid. Tiller steering is much quicker and accurate and being in the open is what I like about my own boating, especialy if we get warm days as a wheelhouse is then a right pain.

 

Tim

[Grace and Favour]

What is the worst that could happen if you don't have emergency steering? you get towed to a boat yard and get your wheel steering fixed.

So you spend 2 grand on an emergency steering and drive to the yard to get the wheel system fixed.

What if the engine fails, do you carry an outboard in case?

If one is on a canal, and the steering goes awol, then one has a chance to slow down and hopefully reduce (the effect of) an impact.

 

 

Last year our steering failed whilst we were on the River Trent.

 

I was relieved to have a back-up tiller system (and anchor!) , otherwise we would have been 'shooting' Cromwell Weir 5 minutes later

[ditchcrawler]

If one is on a canal, and the steering goes awol, then one has a chance to slow down and hopefully reduce (the effect of) an impact.

 

 

Last year our steering failed whilst we were on the River Trent.

 

I was relieved to have a back-up tiller system (and anchor!) , otherwise we would have been 'shooting' Cromwell Weir 5 minutes later

How long did it take you to fit the backup system?

[Grace and Favour]

How long did it take you to fit the backup system?

It's simply bolting on the tiller arm with a 12mm bolt, and turning the handle on the bypass valve

 

It took about four minutes

 

I deployed the anchor first, of course!

[Naughty Cal]

What is the worst that could happen if you don't have emergency steering? you get towed to a boat yard and get your wheel steering fixed.

So you spend 2 grand on an emergency steering and drive to the yard to get the wheel system fixed.

What if the engine fails, do you carry an outboard in case?

Yes we do carry an outboard in case our main engine fails.

[Biggles]

OK.

 

I have the opportunity to fit a tiller If I make one. I left a stub and put in a bypass valve deliberately in case.

 

My problem is the schilling rudder is very sensitive to flow over it. So straight is in a different position depending on the power applied.

 

I can easily set up the tiller to straight on the stationary rudder.

[Phil Ambrose]

The same problem occurs on grp cruisers ....... turn the wheel and nowt happens, then all of a sudden all hell breaks loose and you end up zig-zagging all over the place. Very entertaining when it's windy.

When I was on the Broads it was an everyday event to see what we all called ZIG-ZAG boats, always new hirers. If I was able I would pull along side inmy dinghy and persuade them to use small inputs on the wheel and wait to see how the boat reacts instead of just keep cranking the wheel round. The problem is that people expect the wheel to respond in the same way it does in their car.

 

Phil

[bargemast]

When I was on the Broads it was an everyday event to see what we all called ZIG-ZAG boats, always new hirers. If I was able I would pull along side inmy dinghy and persuade them to use small inputs on the wheel and wait to see how the boat reacts instead of just keep cranking the wheel round. The problem is that people expect the wheel to respond in the same way it does in their car.

 

Phil

 

I suppose that that is the main big mistake that's often made.

 

Peter.

[bigcol]

Hi there

 

I understand a lot of folks getting on a boat for the first time, at the helm thinks it be like driving a car.

 

having traveled all arround the south coast across the channel for over 15 years. inc up the seine etc on a grp crusier

I was use to operate a single engine, twin engine cruiser

 

keeping a 57ft barge with a wheel, on the desired course, on a canal, I feel is not easy at all, unless your Ray!

But I love the boat, and appreciate I need more confidence, and pratice makes perfect

 

having a widebeam with a tiller was easy, and I loved the directness of a tiller

 

But next time I go out I will try the rope arround the centre arm of the wheel good ideal

I will also look at a vetus or equivlent rudder display ( any help or prices be handy) this may be a help

 

all the best

 

col

 

 

regards to emergency steering I will look at the follow on steering or a emergency tiller

Edited May 24, 2013 by bigcol