Traditional Stern where do you stand...

[bristol & argo]

Well i spent the morning trying to steer from inside. I just cant get comfy, after 5 days traveling my arm muscles are giving out so i had to go back to the side but made sure i had a leg and an arm inside just incase.

 

Well in that case you must be holding the tiller in a death grip!.

 

Ideally the boat should go in a straightish line with very little pressure on the tiller, so most of the time you should only need to nudge it about with the nearest bit of your body to keep in the middle.

 

When you come to a bend it is less effort on your body to lean againt the tiller, rather than push or pull with your arms. So most of the time you can reserve your death grip for the hatch rails.

 

I find it's my legs that tire, which is the main reason for swapping around so much to change which leg is taking my weight. Also my top step is a little too short.

 

 

Simon.

[WJM]

It is dangerous to sit anywhere on the rear counter of a narrowboat. That includes cruiser stern rails or those welded-on 'bar stools on trads and semis. In the absence of fixtures on the counter, standing is nowhere near as dangerous because, firstly the tiller does not have anything to lever you against as it swings and tries to drop you head first into the propellor, ie: you will probably be able to duck under the tiller. Secondly, if you are pushed off, you will more than likely be able to jump or dive and land well clear of the prop.

 

The famous accident was a man on a cruiser stern boat, sitting on the rail beside the tiller. Went into reverse, rudder hit the bottom, swung the tiller, man rolled over the rail, landed head first about a foot from the stern, propellor sucked him in and chopped his shoulder and head off.

 

Like anything on the canal, if the working boats did not have them you must ask why not?

[RLWP]

Well in that case you must be holding the tiller in a death grip!.

 

Ideally the boat should go in a straightish line with very little pressure on the tiller, so most of the time you should only need to nudge it about with the nearest bit of your body to keep in the middle.

 

When you come to a bend it is less effort on your body to lean againt the tiller, rather than push or pull with your arms. So most of the time you can reserve your death grip for the hatch rails.

 

I find it's my legs that tire, which is the main reason for swapping around so much to change which leg is taking my weight. Also my top step is a little too short.

 

 

Simon.

 

I would agree with this, although we have a cruiser stern. If you adopt the pose mentioned by Phil, end of tiller in the small of your back, held in your right hand, I find quite a lot of the steering is actually done with your legs rather than your arms.

 

The other thing is that, well, Chickadee is fairly new to this. As I remember, being a new steerer meant lots of excursions across the cut, a determination to keep the boat under tight control, ending up in the wrong place for approaching bridges and locks and so on. I'm sure I do much less steering per mile now than when I started.

 

Richard

 

MInd you, developing muscles like Popeye probably helps too...

[moggyjo]

You can even steer with the small of your back while nonchalantly rolling a cigarette - oh those were the days....................

Phil

Ditto

[blackrose]

The famous accident was a man on a cruiser stern boat, sitting on the rail beside the tiller. Went into reverse, rudder hit the bottom, swung the tiller, man rolled over the rail, landed head first about a foot from the stern, propellor sucked him in and chopped his shoulder and head off.

 

Like anything on the canal, if the working boats did not have them you must ask why not?

 

You mean like engines & propellors?

Edited April 17, 2008 by blackrose

[Chickadee]

Well in that case you must be holding the tiller in a death grip!.

 

Ideally the boat should go in a straightish line with very little pressure on the tiller, so most of the time you should only need to nudge it about with the nearest bit of your body to keep in the middle.

 

When you come to a bend it is less effort on your body to lean againt the tiller, rather than push or pull with your arms. So most of the time you can reserve your death grip for the hatch rails.

 

I find it's my legs that tire, which is the main reason for swapping around so much to change which leg is taking my weight. Also my top step is a little too short.

 

 

Simon.

 

I think the muscle ache is from a combination of doing locks and doing different things with my body that i havent for a while! I'm normally just sat on my ass at work. I seem to have the steering down to a mininmal most the time although it is damn windy today. Just tried to pull up on one side of the cut and ended up on the other.

I think having a solid week like this has taught me alot!

Edited April 17, 2008 by Chickadee

[alan_fincher]

But seriously, I've struggled to find historical images but I know I have dozens in books that show the professional steerers standing inside the cabin doors with the doors secured behind them and the rope coiled up on the cabin roof when underway. Except during the warmest weather, I am sure this was the way it was. Many more photographs taken at or near locks show the cabin doors open but I am sure these would have been closed but for the fact that the steerer is about to step on or off.

Well that prompted me to go and look at a stack of books , including most of the Robert Wilson series that I have.

 

Surprisingly I can find remarkably few pictures of working boats on the move with the doors shut.

 

I can only assume photographer's only chose to turn out on warm days.

 

There are some of Chocolate Charle Atkins skippering the Mendip where he is closed in, but 95% have cabin doors wide open, even where they are clearly in long pounds.

 

What did surprise me is how many have the butty being steered with the steerer outside the cabin. Tehs is particularly true of the Barlows and Blue Line boats. In some of the pictures it looks like the steerer would not be capable of reaching far enough to swing the elum without stepping out of the hatches.

 

Still you don't reverse butties if they are on a long line, I suppose, and in that circumstance there is no propellor to get sucked into either.

[JohnO]

Chickadee I don't think anyone else has mentioned and I find that when steering from a trad stern from the step, if you are taking a right handed corner you are turning the tiller to the left, so stand to the right you will now be pushing the tiller and not pulling it and vice versa, much better than standing central and the slower you go the easier it is to steer. Standing central is for going in a straightish line, rolling up and stuff as pointed out above.

[Dominic M]

i had no idea whatsoever that it was dangerous to stand on the back deck. I do now, but I didn't. And some boat builders build seats especially for being on the back deck - or does sitting not count as standing....

 

It was those taff rail seats...

 

 

The famous accident was a man on a cruiser stern boat, sitting on the rail beside the tiller. Went into reverse, rudder hit the bottom, swung the tiller, man rolled over the rail, landed head first about a foot from the stern, propellor sucked him in and chopped his shoulder and head off.

 

.....that led to this accident I believe, rather than a cruiser stern rail. I have met at least one RYA instructor who thinks they should be banned.

Well that prompted me to go and look at a stack of books , including most of the Robert Wilson series that I have.

 

Surprisingly I can find remarkably few pictures of working boats on the move with the doors shut.

 

I can only assume photographer's only chose to turn out on warm days.

 

Maybe it was like the bygone days of the school photograph. "Right, open the doors and say 'cheese!'"

[adam1uk]

I'm constantly amazed at how many people stand in the danger area -- even on semi-trads, where there's no reason at all to be outside.

 

As far as the aching is concerned, I wonder if it's to do with making too many movements with the tiller. I've noticed that lots of people seem to constantly make little adjustments, even though they're trying to go in a straight line. It's much less hard on the body if you just relax and try not to move the tiller unless you actually need to.

[Chickadee]

As far as the aching is concerned, I wonder if it's to do with making too many movements with the tiller. I've noticed that lots of people seem to constantly make little adjustments, even though they're trying to go in a straight line. It's much less hard on the body if you just relax and try not to move the tiller unless you actually need to.

 

Its just been getting used to it i think. Today has been a nightmare with the wind and a week of working my body in ways i wouldnt normally do. My Dad is a pretty hard task master.

 

Passed alot of hire boats today and can see how dangerous a cruiser stern could be. I deffiently feel alot safer inside my trad stern now.

 

I spent all day today inside steering with my forearm. I also took the rope off the tiller. I'm getting there. Havent quite got to closing the door yet as i need to stand on the lip that it sits on. I think i will when we have built the step up a bit.

 

I'm alot happier now then when i started this thread. Thanks guys.

 

River tomorrow! Woooooo!

[Chertsey]

I'm constantly amazed at how many people stand in the danger area -- even on semi-trads, where there's no reason at all to be outside.

 

As far as the aching is concerned, I wonder if it's to do with making too many movements with the tiller. I've noticed that lots of people seem to constantly make little adjustments, even though they're trying to go in a straight line. It's much less hard on the body if you just relax and try not to move the tiller unless you actually need to.

 

Think it also depends on which arm you use in relation to the direction your prop turns; it's less ache-making to be pushing rather than pulling for the constant low-level correction required to go in a straight line.

[Liam]

Its just been getting used to it i think. Today has been a nightmare with the wind and a week of working my body in ways i wouldnt normally do. My Dad is a pretty hard task master.

 

Passed alot of hire boats today and can see how dangerous a cruiser stern could be. I deffiently feel alot safer inside my trad stern now.

 

I spent all day today inside steering with my forearm. I also took the rope off the tiller. I'm getting there. Havent quite got to closing the door yet as i need to stand on the lip that it sits on. I think i will when we have built the step up a bit.

 

I'm alot happier now then when i started this thread. Thanks guys.

 

River tomorrow! Woooooo!

 

You're definately getting there!

 

There's a badge with your name on it, waiting for you on your moorings!

[Chickadee]

You're definately getting there!

 

There's a badge with your name on it, waiting for you on your moorings!

 

I hope so! A rosette would be nice. "I survived two weeks with my parents in 42ft of steel" maybe? or "I can now steer without risking falling off" Or "I can now steer without ending up in the hedge"

Any of those would do!

[Liam]

I was thinking more along the lines of this... tee hee hee...

 

[Chickadee]

Nope thats for my mum, just had spagetti and got sticky toffee pudding for pud.

 

I miss cooking...

 

Off to the pub in a bit.

[bottle]

Chickadee

 

When are you due at Gloucester Docks?

 

There is a 'festival' Gloucester, through the ages, on Saturday and Sunday, a lot of events around the docks.

 

See here. link

[Byeckerslike]

With experience you will find that you will intuitively develop a sighting line along the center of the boat's width (I use an imaginary line through the mushroom vents) and also instinctively become aware of how wide your boat is from this imaginary sighting line.

When you finally believe and trust in this new sixth sense, you'll find that you will rarely need to peer down the side of the boat as you go through a bridge, or squeeze past another boat.

[Chickadee]

Chickadee

 

When are you due at Gloucester Docks?

 

There is a 'festival' Gloucester, through the ages, on Saturday and Sunday, a lot of events around the docks.

 

See here. link

 

Saturday, doubt we will be stopping long though as we all have to get back to sort ourselves out for work (i have to work sunday ) Then again i am traveling with 2 boat crazy men so i might get to have a quick nose.

[bottle]

Saturday, doubt we will be stopping long though as we all have to get back to sort ourselves out for work (i have to work sunday ) Then again i am traveling with 2 boat crazy men so i might get to have a quick nose.

 

Will miss you then as I have to be in London on Saturday.

[Chickadee]

Will miss you then as I have to be in London on Saturday.

 

I'll get to a banter one day.

[blackrose]

Passed alot of hire boats today and can see how dangerous a cruiser stern could be. I deffiently feel alot safer inside my trad stern now.

 

That's funny because when I look at trad sterns I can't help thinking how dangerous they look.

 

One's just passed me as I write and the guy is standing on his deck. I think a lot of trad owners don't realise they should be standing forward of the tiller arm.

 

I guess anything is dangerous if it's not used properly.

 

As for myself, I've got a bench with a 1m high rail running right round the back of my widebeam cruiser stern deck, so there's no chance of getting knocked overboard (except when I do dangerous things like standing on the bench to get a better view of approaching bridgeholes).

[Boot wharf man]

I am surprised that no one on here has mentioned the use of a brass tiller hinge. It basically allows you to lift the front section of the tiller to a verticle position allowing a much narrower swing area. I use one regulary and i find its great if i want to have a quick look down the side of the boat or to let someone up through the doors safely while i'm steering. i also like to fold it up so i can steer on the deck on occasion, particularly in the summer. The hinges are a bit on the pricey side but i think a worthwhile accessary for a trad or semi trad boat.

 

(sorry for any spelling mistakes).

[grunders]

It is dangerous to sit anywhere on the rear counter of a narrowboat. That includes cruiser stern rails or those welded-on 'bar stools on trads and semis.

 

I reckon it is perfectly safe to sit on the counter if you are below the tiller arm e.g. sitting on a small stool or nothing at all. That way, you can't be swept into the cut even by vigorous steering. I don't recommend steering from that position though as it can be difficult to see where you are going.

 

On a more general note, when steering, I am virtually always in the hatch as that is where the controls are located. If someone needs to get into the boatman's cabin and I anticipate that they will need to come back up again within a short period then, for that period, I will steer standing to the side of the tiller. I have also tried steering whilst standing on the tipcats but this an be difficult as you don't have very much leverage. I guess it is also dangerous as you are unable to reach the throttle controls etc.

 

Crossing from one side of the boat to the other, I generally go under the tiller but sometimes go over the roof and I sometimes go behind the tiller.

 

When not steering, I will often be found standing on the gunnel near the stern (on the opposite side to the cans as they don't leave much room for fingers to grip the handrail). Otherwise I may sit on the roof with feet dangling over the side.

 

 

P.S. With regard to tiller length, it doesn't matter if the tiller arm is long enough that it will extend beyond the profile of the boat just so long as you remember to remove the tiller as you enter a lock or if you are in restricted space.

[Timleech]

Its especially dangerous for skeletons . . .

 

But seriously, I've struggled to find historical images but I know I have dozens in books that show the professional steerers standing inside the cabin doors with the doors secured behind them and the rope coiled up on the cabin roof when underway. Except during the warmest weather, I am sure this was the way it was. Many more photographs taken at or near locks show the cabin doors open but I am sure these would have been closed but for the fact that the steerer is about to step on or off.

 

 

 

That's a rather unusual looking motor boat, it looks rather as though you step down into the 'hatches' as you would in a butty/horseboat. There were a few motor boats built that way, I don't know of any which survived in that form.

 

Doors open/closed is just a matter of preference according to wind/weather, how hot the range is, etc.

 

Here's someone who had been doing it all his life:-

 

 

Note no lines at all on the stern (it's coiled on the cabin slide), everything is ordered and 'relaxed'.

 

Tim