cost of diesel

[Keeping Up]

£1.50 a litre won't make the slightest bit of difference to me, it would simply increase the cost of my boating from £88p an hour to £1.50. not a massive hike

 

I might just stop filling my tank in 1 go and go for several smaller top ups, so far i've done all this years boating on £100 worth of diesel that I bought at easter. it's the serious moboers I feel for.

 

I'll probably have to cut down the amount of travelling, when it increases my cost from £1.60 an hour to £3.00 per hour. I can't afford to keep doing over 600 hours a year at that rate, not on my pension.

 

It's me I feel sorry for.

[magnetman]

82p/litre at Uxbridge boat centre yesterday.

Forgot to ask if it was BSEN DIN 590

[Smelly]

I also refer you to the rules of the forum. If you have actually nothing to contribute to a discussion except banter and pedantry, please, don't!

 

You're new, you'll get used to it. As a bystander the pedantry is oft in the spirit of jest and most of the time brightens the place up! Personally I try to avoind the flak well, most of the time anyways!

[carlt]

I'll probably have to cut down the amount of travelling, when it increases my cost from £1.60 an hour to £3.00 per hour. I can't afford to keep doing over 600 hours a year at that rate, not on my pension.

 

It's me I feel sorry for.

I'm off to Kent, in a couple of weeks, to look for a mooring that's a shorter hop to fill up on the continent, where the interpretation of the rules is a bit more in the boater's favour.

 

Be nice to get the boat out of the mud, too.

[magpie patrick]

How practical is elecrtic propulsion, or in my case, how practical is it to convert the existing diesel propulsion to electic? And would electric propulsion be capable of being usefull topped up by renewables? Or would you need six weeks sunshine and wind to get a days crusing out of it?

[NB Alnwick]

How practical is elecrtic propulsion, or in my case, how practical is it to convert the existing diesel propulsion to electic? And would electric propulsion be capable of being usefull topped up by renewables? Or would you need six weeks sunshine and wind to get a days crusing out of it?

 

Electric propulsion has been around for more than a hundred years but during that time little real progress has been made in finding a cheap and efficient means of storing electricity. Therefore, in the most practical applications the generating power still has to come from an engine and, except in very large applications, it is usually more efficient to connect the engine directly to the prop.

 

The possible exception would be if you had an 'all-electric' boat with a huge generator that is mostly used when the boat is stationary - in these circumstances, there might be an economic case for dispensing with a separate propulsion engine in favour of an electric motor driven by the generator.

[alan_fincher]

Willowbridge on the GU is at 89 pence per litre, the second highest we have seen in about 350 miles of travel.

 

Still well below the 95 pence at Whilton though - the only case of greater than 90 pence we have seen.

 

Seems to be business as usual at Willowbridge, despite the fatality there. The crane involved in the incident now has most, but not all of it's jib removed.

 

Alan.

 

(Final night's cruise location Leighton Buzzard - we'll be at home by tomorrow night)

[Keeping Up]

Willowbridge on the GU is at 89 pence per litre, the second highest we have seen in about 350 miles of travel.

 

Still well below the 95 pence at Whilton though - the only case of greater than 90 pence we have seen.

 

Seems to be business as usual at Willowbridge, despite the fatality there. The crane involved in the incident now has most, but not all of it's jib removed.

 

Alan.

 

(Final night's cruise location Leighton Buzzard - we'll be at home by tomorrow night)

Yes I asked at Willowbridge (who used to have a reputation for selling diesel quite cheaply) this afternoon and was dismayed to be told their price. I shan't be buying from them when I set off on Sunday. I'll need some fairly soon though, so will probably get it from Gary on Ascot (86p at the moment)

[alan_fincher]

I'll need some fairly soon though, so will probably get it from Gary on Ascot (86p at the moment)

I must admit I didn't see him in either direction.

 

I guess we must have passed whlst Cath was steering.

 

Very few places are actually displaying a price you can read whilst passing, which I find a pain.

 

Do Wyvern sell to the public ? I was intrigued to see a sign that implied their gasoil was already pre-dosed with FuelSet.

[Keeping Up]

I must admit I didn't see him in either direction.

 

I guess we must have passed whlst Cath was steering.

 

Very few places are actually displaying a price you can read whilst passing, which I find a pain.

 

Do Wyvern sell to the public ? I was intrigued to see a sign that implied their gasoil was already pre-dosed with FuelSet.

He's moored at Great Linford at the moment.

 

Wyvern do sell it except on busy turn-around days, but they deliberately make their price extra high to discourage it.

[alan_fincher]

85p when we got back to Cow Roast marina.

 

So it sounds like marina prices on the southern GU can be more or less identical to those where it is sold from boats.

 

I thought in the past the boats had always managed to come in at a few pence under the land based outlets.

 

I still can't understand why Whilton can get away with 10 pence dearer than most outlets, though.

[petro]

Hi all

 

This topic seems to go on and on but just to tell you that I paid 74p at Calcutt yesterday and they appear to ber the cheapest in the Braunston area.

 

Petro

[magpie patrick]

Electric propulsion has been around for more than a hundred years but during that time little real progress has been made in finding a cheap and efficient means of storing electricity. Therefore, in the most practical applications the generating power still has to come from an engine and, except in very large applications, it is usually more efficient to connect the engine directly to the prop.

 

The possible exception would be if you had an 'all-electric' boat with a huge generator that is mostly used when the boat is stationary - in these circumstances, there might be an economic case for dispensing with a separate propulsion engine in favour of an electric motor driven by the generator.

 

Lost in translation: I'm moored at a hookup so could start each voyage with full batteries: but how many batteries would last how long and how do I the top them up when the "BATTERY LOW" light comes on over Pontcysyllte or whatever...

[gooseman]

currently the price is at 86p a litre at willowbridge, due to order more in the next few days, so i hope to be able to drop the price again, our second to last delivery was when we dropped the price, then the last delivery we paid more for per litre, but the price stayed at the lower rate, we aim to get it down as much as possible so we are only buying in 18k litres at a time, average reorder rate is every 2 weeks. i hope to be able to drop it at the next delivery

[Sue]

Think yourselves luck, tis £1.00 plus over here in East Anglia,with some at £1.25..

[Greybeard]

Diesel at Shobham about 10 days ago was 82p per ltr unless you bought 100ltrs + which they charged at 77p per ltr.

[Pie Eater]

Filled up yesterday at Thorn Marine on the Bridgewater Canal - 80p per litre.

 

Steve

[gooseman]

due to be bringing it down on wednesday, hopefully to 82p pence a litre, possibly less, once price is confimed i will post

[ditchcrawler]

I am moored opposite Terry Yates yard at Newbold and its 85p Market Drayton and Norbury Junction were 69.9p when we passed and Wheaton Aston was 66.9p where we filled up

 

Hi all

 

This topic seems to go on and on but just to tell you that I paid 74p at Calcutt yesterday and they appear to ber the cheapest in the Braunston area.

 

Petro

They are normally the cheapest in the area and also give a discount on 100 l or more, but I don't think I will have room for that much next Monday when I plan to fill up.

 

I still can't understand why Whilton can get away with 10 pence dearer than most outlets, though.

Because people are prepared to pay it.

[gooseman]

willowbridge marina is now 81p a litre

[blackrose]

I just received this email from a friend who's in contact with some of the various waterways groups mentioned. (Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere)

 

Please find here a joint communication from The Inland Waterways Association, Royal Yachting Association and British Marine Federation released today, concerning how the end of the derogation on Red Diesel will be implemented and the arrangements for users making declarations at point of sale.

 

Red Diesel update

12 September 2008

 

The BMF, RYA and IWA are pleased to provide an update on how the end of the derogation will be implemented as of 1 November 2008.

 

Introduction

 

We have been working closely with HM Revenue & Customs since early 2007 to produce a pragmatic and sensible solution to the implementation of the end of the derogation. Prior to that, from 2003, we successfully lobbied Government to seek the retention of the derogation but this was rejected by the European Commission in favour of its tax harmonisation agenda.

 

Once it was confirmed that the derogation had to come to an end, our key concerns were to:

 

* Secure the continued availability of diesel at the waterside

* Minimise the impact on the boater and industry

* Avoid safety and environmental implications of transporting fuel by hand

 

In February of this year, when HMRC published its outline proposals, we were pleased to see that our efforts had succeeded and that all of these concerns had been taken into account, particularly by allowing recreational boaters to continue to use red diesel. Since then, we have been endeavouring to ensure that the detail of HMRC’s proposals is as simple and as effective as possible.

 

Successful Co-operation

 

The BMF, RYA, IWA and HMRC all agree that it was disappointing that the derogation was not renewed by the European Commission, despite what we all considered to be a very strong case. We also all agreed that the end of the derogation presented considerable difficulties in terms of implementation.

We are very pleased, however, that the BMF, RYA, IWA and HMRC have been able to work together successfully on behalf of the industry and recreational boaters. HMRC has been very receptive to the concerns of suppliers and users and has managed the consultation process well.

 

HMRC Conclusions.

 

HMRC accepted the overwhelming wish of both suppliers and users that red diesel should continue to be available to recreational boaters.

 

* The loss of the derogation will only affect fuel used for propulsion, which will be subject to the full rate of duty.

* Red diesel at the rebated rate will continue to be available for domestic purposes, such as heating and lighting.

 

How will it work?

 

1. When recreational boaters buy diesel for their craft, they will need to make a declaration to the supplier if they intend the fuel to be used for propelling a private pleasure craft.

 

2. The recreational boater will also declare what percentage of the fuel will be used for propulsion (as opposed to domestic purposes such as heating and lighting).

 

How will the boater work out what percentage of fuel they intend to use for propulsion?

 

HMRC has understood our arguments about the potential difficulties for fuel suppliers in calculating duty and VAT – in particular for the smaller operators – when faced with customers claiming different percentages of fuel used for propulsion. HMRC also appreciates the concerns of users about the difficulty of calculating and apportioning their own intended usage accurately and their worries about unintentionally making an inaccurate declaration. However, the EU Energy Products Directive specifically refers to ‘fuel for the purposes of navigation’ (which is reflected in UK law as ‘fuel for propelling’), so there is no legal basis for imposing a single standard apportionment to be applied universally that pays no regard to actual usage for propulsion.

 

HMRC has therefore confirmed to the BMF, RYA, and IWA that their advice on this issue is as follows:

 

Q. What will be the allowance for fuel used on boats for heating and lighting?

 

A. There is no fixed allowance. It is for the purchaser to declare the percentage of fuel used for propulsion. However, analysis by both the industry and HMRC suggests that a split of 60% for propulsion and 40% for domestic use (heating, cooking etc) probably reflects most people’s use and it is therefore likely that many users will declare such an apportionment.

This will make it easier for suppliers (known as Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils) to work out additional duty and VAT. However, where a purchaser knows that their propulsion use may be more or less than the above apportionment split or a craft clearly has no domestic use, then they must declare their actual intended usage.

 

Q. What about residential boat owners where nearly all fuel is for domestic purposes – what can they declare?

 

A. We have recognised the status of residential boat owners whose primary residence is their boat. Some of these will be at fixed moorings or move just a very short distance along the towpath from permanent moorings. If they live aboard the craft permanently and hold certain documentation, such as a Houseboat Licence, Residential Mooring Licence, Council Tax Bill in respect of the mooring, or other peripheral documentation, invoices or bills which provides proof of permanent residency, they may purchase all their fuel at the rebated rate (as if they were a commercial vessel). They will still be required to make and sign a declaration saying that 0% of the fuel is for propelling purposes. It will be the responsibility of the declarant to ensure that they hold the requisite documentation should HMRC wish to check the validity of the declaration made in these circumstances. Continuous cruisers may not declare 0% under these arrangements, even if they reside permanently on their craft, they must declare their actual intended usage for propulsion.

 

Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCO) will need to account to HMRC for the additional duty received from recreational boaters. RDCOs already owe a general duty of care to ensure that they only make supplies of controlled oil for legitimate uses.

 

Further Information

 

We will continue to work with HMRC to provide support to suppliers and users over the next few months. RYA and IWA will provide guidance to their members and the BMF will offer an information service for industry.

HMRC has confirmed that it will provide supplementary guidance to RDCOs and that its emphasis as the new measures bed in will be to help and advise suppliers and users to get things right.

Edited September 16, 2008 by blackrose

[Machpoint005]

So common sense seems to have prevailed (no point in re-fighting lost battles).

Paying 60% of the duty is a lot better than paying 100%!