Reversing

[goldtone]

I just can't seem to get the boat to go where I want it to in reverse. It's not that I have to reverse very often, but for example, out cruising a few weeks back on a windy day, I wanted to reverse as the wind was bringing me too close to the lock gates before they had been opened. The boat didn't respond at all and luckily there were no other boats around for me to bash into, or embarrass myself in front of!

 

So is there a knack to reversing? Even in wind free conditions no matter where i put the tiller it makes no difference as to where the boat goes.

 

And in your replies please bear in mind: I'm new to boating and not being at all scientifically minded technical terms will be lost on me!

Edited April 10, 2008 by goldtone

[NB Alnwick]

So is there a knack to reversing? Even in wind free conditions no matter where i put the tiller it makes no difference as to where the boat goes.

 

Our boats weren't really designed to go astern - so it will always be something of a challenge.

 

Having said that, there have been occasions when we have managed to go astern in a straight line for a considerable distance (see my post here) and the secret seems to be go very slowly and set the tiller over to counteract the torque of the prop - which tends to push the boat over to one side or the other depending on the direction of rotation.

 

When there are two of us, we usually have one standing on the other end with a shaft to punt the boat over if it starts to veer off course.

 

It gets better with practice but there are certain factors that will always make reversing unpredictable - these include shallow water and obstructions on the bottom, wind, banks of silt beside moored boats etc.

[cotswoldsman]

I just can't seem to get the boat to go where I want it to in reverse. It's not that I have to reverse very often, but for example, out cruising a few weeks back on a windy day, I wanted to reverse as the wind was bringing me too close to the lock gates before they had been opened. The boat didn't respond at all and luckily there were no other boats around for me to bash into, or embarrass myself in front of!

 

So is there a knack to reversing? Even in wind free conditions no matter where i put the tiller it makes no difference as to where the boat goes.

 

And in your replies please bear in mind: I'm new to boating and not being at all scientifically minded technical terms will be lost on me!

 

Trouble is every boat re acts differently in reverse the main trick is to go slowly and watch the front of the boat to straighten out the tiller in reverse does not help much.

[blackelle123]

In my personal opinion, reversing is an art all on its own. Hubs has found that attemping to reverse is best done while no-ones watching. If that can't be done, just carry on (looking like you know what your doing always helps) until you find somewhere to turn round. I know that sounds a bit blonde (no offense intended to anyone!!!!), but there again I still haven't managed to get it to go forward, let alone backwards.

 

cheers Helen (Galley Slave)

[Chris Pink]

If you get enough speed up in reverse, you can get the rudder to operate - by feel, get the point of most resistance with not too much rudder angle. Every so often you'll have to use forward to straighten out, as Cotswoldman says, watch the front of the boat to see where you're going.

 

But your situation, where there's wind, you don't stand much chance of going in a straight line.

 

The other one is where the canal is shallow you will get drawn onto the mud, especially if it is the side your prop is dragging you anyway.

 

I can reverse my boat around bends (boast!!!!) - turns heads that does.

[blackelle123]

If you get enough speed up in reverse, you can get the rudder to operate - by feel, get the point of most resistance with not too much rudder angle. Every so often you'll have to use forward to straighten out, as Cotswoldman says, watch the front of the boat to see where you're going.

 

But your situation, where there's wind, you don't stand much chance of going in a straight line.

 

The other one is where the canal is shallow you will get drawn onto the mud, especially if it is the side your prop is dragging you anyway.

 

I can reverse my boat around bends (boast!!!!) - turns heads that does.

 

 

Your just showing off - Male ego thing???

[Chris Pink]

Your just showing off - Male ego thing???

 

yep. That's what my big tonka toys are good at; showing off and looking' good.

[steelaway]

I just can't seem to get the boat to go where I want it to in reverse. It's not that I have to reverse very often, but for example, out cruising a few weeks back on a windy day, I wanted to reverse as the wind was bringing me too close to the lock gates before they had been opened. The boat didn't respond at all and luckily there were no other boats around for me to bash into, or embarrass myself in front of!

 

So is there a knack to reversing? Even in wind free conditions no matter where i put the tiller it makes no difference as to where the boat goes.

 

And in your replies please bear in mind: I'm new to boating and not being at all scientifically minded technical terms will be lost on me!

 

 

Hi There

 

As Alnwick says they are not really designed to go in reverse. You can, with a bit of practise and watching how the front is responding to the tiller get a little control - but it is mostly a lottery.

Often going in reverse just gives you more room to steer - forward!

Dont feel bad about it, some boats steer better in reverse than other. (NOT MINE )

 

Alex

[Liam]

Bow thruster

[Keeping Up]

My boat also steers better in reverse if I can get up to a decent speed - provided the canal is deep enough (which in Alnwick's case would apply to only one or two canals).

 

One interesting feature I've noticed, if I'm accelerating any swing that the boat is acquiring will be straightened out, and if I'm slowing down the swing will be increased. On a straight canal I can keep going as long as I can keep accelerating - which guarantees a more spectacular bang when I do have to slow down!

 

The main tip I'd give is to watch the front of the boat rather than watch where you're going (with the occasional glance the other way of course). That way as soon as the starts to swing one way or the other, yuo can immediately apply some rudder to correct it (never more than half rudder though, it doesn't work if you let it go further). Then if you're travelling at a moderate speed, you stand some chance of being able to go where you want to. But watch out, there will be quite a lot of force on the tiller.

 

Otherwise, don't waste your time trying to steer. Use the time profitably by thinking up your excuses as to why the place the boat chooses to go, is the place you really wanted to be ("I thought I saw a Dragonfly amongst these reeds", "You get a good view of the church from over here", and so on)

Edited April 10, 2008 by Keeping Up

[steelaway]

Bow thruster

 

 

 

DONT START!!

 

Alex

 

My boat also steers better in reverse if I can get up to a decent speed - provided the canal is deep enough (which in Alnwick's case would apply to only one or two canals).

 

One interesting feature I've noticed, if I'm accelerating any swing that the boat is acquiring will be straightened out, and if I'm slowing down the swing will be increased. On a straight canal I can keep going as long as I can keep accelerating - which guarantees a more spectacular bang when I do have to slow down!

 

The main tip I'd give is to watch the front of the boat rather than watch where you're going (with the occasional glance the other way of course). That way as soon as the starts to swing one way or the other, yuo can immediately apply some rudder to correct it (never more than half rudder though, it doesn't work if you let it go further). Then if you're travelling at a moderate speed, you stand some chance of being able to go where you want to. But watch out, there will be quite a lot of force on the tiller.

 

Otherwise, don't waste your time trying to steer. Use the time profitably by thinking up your excuses as to why the place the boat chooses to go, is the place you really wanted to be ("I thought I saw a Dragonfly amongst these reeds", "You get a good view of the church from over here", and so on)

 

 

Hi There

 

Thanks for that - I thought it was just me.

Mine reacts pretty much the same as your boat.

 

Alex

[goldtone]

Thanks guys. I can see that my technique of barely being in reverse then swinging the tiller left and right to rectify, with a false look of concentration on my face to hide my embarrassment is less than adequate. I can also see that I'm probably not alone in struggling to reverse.

 

I know my boat is capable of it as the previous owner would reverse back from the water point a few hundred yards away from his mooring, so it is just a case of trial and error till i get it right i suppose.

[PaulG]

Depending on direction of prop rotation, most boats will have a pronounced "kick" to one side or the other when reversing. My own boat follows a slow curve to starboard when going astern. This is curve is reduced, but not entirely eliminated by use of the rudder. Every so often it is necessary to give a short burst of "ahead" power whilst reversing the lock on the tiller to get the boat going in a straight line. It's easy with practice (I have to reverse 50 yards or so very time I leave my berth). Oh, and of course, we never forget to give three blasts on the horn for "going astern", do we?

[bottle]

Depending on direction of prop rotation, most boats will have a pronounced "kick" to one side or the other when reversing. My own boat follows a slow curve to starboard when going astern. This is curve is reduced, but not entirely eliminated by use of the rudder. Every so often it is necessary to give a short burst of "ahead" power whilst reversing the lock on the tiller to get the boat going in a straight line. It's easy with practice (I have to reverse 50 yards or so very time I leave my berth). Oh, and of course, we never forget to give three blasts on the horn for "going astern", do we?

 

Of course we forget, bad enough messing it up with all the gongoozlers watching don't want to attract any more of them.

[RLWP]

I did a bit of thinking about this the last time I reversed Tawny Owl. As I picked the bits of twig from my hair from the of-side bushes again I got to thinking about how the boat behaves when going forward. If you turn the rudder to go right say, the back end moves to the left and the bow to the right. The boat turns around an axis (!) somewhere about 1/3rd of the way from the forward end - the bow. Most of us kind of know this.

 

In reverse, the boat appears to do the same thing. It turns around a point about a third of the way from the stern. On the occasion that I winded last it was fairly breezy. Thinking of the boat as a lever, I was applying a fairly ineffective force from the rudder and water flow one third of the way from the axis of rotation. Maenwhile, the wind was exerting a reasonable force over the rest of the surface of the boat, and on the long side of the lever. No wonder I was fighting a losing battle.

 

I thin it is the fact that the axis that the boat turns around is near to the forward end that causes so many problems. This is coupled with the fact that the rudder has no prop wash across it.

 

Further experimantation is needed.

 

Richard

 

Preparing for more trips into the vegetation....

[Tusses]

how about strapping an outboard to the bow

 

[DHutch]

DONT START!!

Ahh, but it does work!

 

 

Shes marginally better with the fancy rudder, but emilyanne is at least as bad as any other boat, and aiding reversing is about the most usfull thing the bow thrust can do. Its not much use for anything else certainly.

 

So if there isnt many people about im not unknown to get out the old steam-electric wizzama thing, rudder just over to the side a little, then keep in stright with intermitant short blasts of left on the old girl.

 

 

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

I did a bit of thinking about this the last time I reversed Tawny Owl. As I picked the bits of twig from my hair from the of-side bushes again I got to thinking about how the boat behaves when going forward. If you turn the rudder to go right say, the back end moves to the left and the bow to the right. The boat turns around an axis (!) somewhere about 1/3rd of the way from the forward end - the bow. Most of us kind of know this.

 

In reverse, the boat appears to do the same thing. It turns around a point about a third of the way from the stern. On the occasion that I winded last it was fairly breezy. Thinking of the boat as a lever, I was applying a fairly ineffective force from the rudder and water flow one third of the way from the axis of rotation. Maenwhile, the wind was exerting a reasonable force over the rest of the surface of the boat, and on the long side of the lever. No wonder I was fighting a losing battle.

 

I thin it is the fact that the axis that the boat turns around is near to the forward end that causes so many problems. This is coupled with the fact that the rudder has no prop wash across it.

Further experimantation is needed.

 

Richard

 

Preparing for more trips into the vegetation....

 

For exactly the reason you describe, in astern the rudder can only really be used as an inefficient deflector rather than a rudder. So turning the tiller slightly to the left (rudder to the right), might help bring the stern over to starboard and the bow to port. This of course ignores the effects of prop walk which may have a much greater influence on where the stern goes than the rudder angle.

[Greybeard]

Hi

 

I have the marine knowledge of a toaster so if I'm talking crepe then I apologise.

 

During my very limited experience any kind of reversing has normally been faster by pulling with a rope.

 

From what I have learnt though is that once the front starts to swing there is nothing I could do to stop it other than go forward a touch and then start again.

 

My question is ..........Has anyone ever used a drogue?

 

I've used them on the big reservoirs when boating after the trout and they work well if they're set up properly.

 

Would they reduce the momentum thats seems to cause the front to swing?

 

You might need to reverse a little faster to make it work but would it hold the front any steadier?

 

It may not work in fast flowing or very shallow water but I'd be interested to know if anyone thinks it may work OR even the reasons why it wouldn't!!!!!!

 

It's amazing what strange ideas you come up with whilst sitting in a traffic jam on the M1!

[Hairy-Neil]

Bow thruster

 

Wash your mouth out with soap......

[Chris Pink]

I thin it is the fact that the axis that the boat turns around is near to the forward end that causes so many problems.

 

ummm. afraid not, back to the drawing board, the turning pivot of a boat is just forward of the engine room (or 1/3 of the way from the stern on these modern jobbies). Not that this negates your reasoning about the wind leverage.

[Keeping Up]

ummm. afraid not, back to the drawing board, the turning pivot of a boat is just forward of the engine room (or 1/3 of the way from the stern on these modern jobbies). Not that this negates your reasoning about the wind leverage.

It depends on how the boat is trimmed (or, if appropriate, how it is loaded). One of the most instructional trips I made, when aiming to graduate from "I've done it several times so now I know it all" to "I've done it hundreds of times and I'm still learning", was to take a moderately well laden boat down the South Oxford canal, and gradually sell its entire 17-ton load to people all the way down to Banbury (at which point we turned back because we had barely enough left for our own stove). It was fascinating to feel how the turning point started near the bows and steadily moved back towards the engine-room bulkhead as the load lightened.

 

If it is trimmed to float relatively level (as ours is), even a modern cruising boat will appear to pivot well forward of the centre point.

[blackrose]

I was told that a simple method to determine the pivot point of a boat is to loosen the mooring ropes and walk down the bank next to the boat pushing the boat out. The point at which the bow & stern move out together, parallel to the bank, is the pivot point (Is this correct? ) I think if the builder did his job properly that point should correspond to your centre rope eye.

Edited April 10, 2008 by blackrose

[Chris Pink]

I was told that a simple method to determine the pivot point of a boat is to loosen the mooring ropes and walk down the bank next to the boat pushing the boat out. The point at which the bow & stern move out together, parallel to the bank, is the pivot point (Is this correct? ) I think if the builder did his job properly that point should correspond to your centre rope eye.

 

 

I tried this on the boat next door and they shouted at me. What did i do wrong?

[cotswoldsman]

Just one thing if you have a long reverse. Put a large empty bucket on a rope drop it into the canal tied to the front of the boat so its about 2ft infront and then reverse slightly faster than tick over this will help to keep the front straight. it does work but not worth the effort unless as I said you have quite a long reverse.