Unlicenced boats

[GUMPY]

BW seem to be forever quoting, from the 1999 BW framework document, an overriding instruction from government, as follows:

 

"2.6 British waterways should maximise, as far as practicable, revenue from its activiites by charging a market rate for its services. Whenever paracticable it should directly charge its customers for benefits received consistent with prevailing market rates and only resort to grant-in-aid to fund activities where, in agreement with the Seceratary of State, there are wider social benefits or it is impractical or not cost effective to charge directly for servicces provided."

 

The word maximise seems to be BWs priority, and might suggest that the number of evaders are not the overiding cause of the recent hikes.

 

This is true but it also says they can resort to grant in aid where it is not possible to directly charge, cyclists could pay, they could be an easy target if Sustrans wasnt so powerful bleating about being green transport. £30 a year to cycle on the towpath seems reasonable to me.

 

 

Oh I forgot BW tried that and the cyclists just ignored them.

 

 

J

[magnetman]

Run down the system, create discontent. Put the lot up for sale then once the private moneys in there's some work to be done profit making from all these boats which are about. "Not going to pay my tolls? This is my property, pay or you go, at your own expense or we'll scrap your boat and charge you for the work". "and yes, we WILL do it". Anyone fancy setting up a boat breakers recycling yard?.

[Neil.A]

it would be better to give BW the power to fine a boat owner instantly the same way the is done for Car Tax.

BW cant be trusted to wisely use the power they already have; let alone give them more...

[debbifiggy]

I believe that its on the form that you can use for this purpose that comes with your licence.

 

You know the one that it advises you to keep, also the one that I shreaded last week..................

Try this link http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/boating/licensing and scroll down to

 

change of boat or owner details form

 

HTH. D

[Nige G]

Hi Julian, you do get a disc if you get yours paid by DSS just like everybody else,

Wendy

 

 

How do you get the DSS to pay for your licence????

[sueb]

I have recently taken to walking the towpath ( trying to get rid of Christmas) and as an amusement decided to count the boats as I walked back.

20 boats

7 with in date licences

2 just expired 12/07

11 either no licence displayed or well out of date (4 months or more)

Only one of the 6 "regulars" had a winter mooring permit.........

 

No wonder our licences are likely to go up by so much.........................................

 

I know that if DSS are paying the licence/mooring for someone they dont get one for the window but I do feel that its taking the mick a bit when less than 35% of boats are displaying an in date licence.

 

I did the same on the offside moorings and out of all the boats, one was not displaying anything and two non livaboards had licences that expired 12/07.

Its a pity BW cant have a new law that deals with licence evasion in the same way as car tax if you dont renew the last known owner gets a fine!

 

Julian

This is the third site I have read this on today. Getting on your hobby horse Julian or not enought to do?

Sue

[GUMPY]

This is the third site I have read this on today. Getting on your hobby horse Julian or not enought to do?

 

One of them, I have many.......

It was here first, thought I'd share it with the other two later.

 

J

[gaggle]

How do you get the DSS to pay for your licence????

 

met lots of people out on long cruises that are medically retired "invalidity benefit" and the new crackdown to get invalidity claiments back to work could see trouble ahead for them.

if you can manage a narrowboat you can manage to work , much tougher tests are promised ,having had a heart attack will no longer excuse people from getting a job.

[Neil.A]

much tougher tests are promised, being dead will no longer excuse people from getting a job.

[Chris Pink]

It's my opinion that the boaters with licences hurt themselves more than anybody else.

 

Having a licence entitles you to certain rights, without one you don't have much at all.

 

I would never moan at someone because they don't have a licence, it's none of my business, but I would certainly point out the benefits of having one.

 

It's also a mistake to assume anything about what is displayed on a boat. If a licence is not displayed then a bye-law offence is being committed but it doesn't automatically follow that the boat is unlicenced.

[owen]

Is that actually correct? It could explain a lot of apparently unlicenced/unpermitted boats on the canal.

 

If your satement is correct, BW should do something to correct the situation, Not only does it risk creating unwarrented hostility towards the boat owner, but it could also be argued that BW are creating the situation where the boat owner involuntarily breaches the licence conditions.

 

BW print the licences on a computer and if Social Services need two for their records, a second set should be issued for the boat. It's not rocket science.

why would dss pay for licence i dont understand

[blackrose]

much tougher tests are promised ,having had a heart attack will no longer excuse people from getting a job.

Unless the heart attack kills them of course! Then they're probably excused...

[blackrose]

Course!

 

Well, if it's so obvious then why is the idea so commonplace that if BW catch license evaders it will somehow benefit those with licences and we should all inform on them? Because BW constantly put this idea around in their propaganda perhaps?

 

Let's face it, if BW managed to licence all currently unlicenced craft their response would neither be to reduce the rate of licence price hikes nor would they invest the extra revenue in increased waterways maintenance. They'd simply pocket the extra cash.

 

As we keep being told, BW is now being run as a business and the purpose of a business is to maximise profits. If I see someone stealing pies from Tescos I don't go to customer services to find the security guard because I don't actually believe that if they catch the shoplifter it will result in cheaper apples or an improved supermarket for me, so why should I adopt any other attitude as regards BW?

Edited January 8, 2008 by blackrose

[Hairy-Neil]

If you're caught on the road in an unlicensed vehicle it is confiscated and impounded. You get a taxi or train (or walk) home, and a period when you have the oportunity to license it, pay the back duty and a recovery/storage fee to redeem it. If you don't take up the offer the vehicle is crushed. There are exceptions where the forfeited car worth more than the storage/scrap value is sold by public auction but this is aparently rare ....

 

Not sure what happens if they want to confiscate a vehicle that is also your home or whether you can play the 'human rights' card then....

 

I'll add that failure to display a valid license is also an offence....

Edited January 8, 2008 by Hairy-Neil

[Sir Nibble]

How do you get the DSS to pay for your licence????

Have a child/children living aboard, paying for your licence is cheaper than taking the child into care when a section 8 makes them homeless.

[WJM]

"If I see someone stealing pies from Tescos I don't go to customer services to find the security guard because I don't actually believe that if they catch the shoplifter it will result in cheaper apples or an improved supermarket for me,"

 

 

Retail Businesses like Tescos build in enormous sums of money into their costs for something glibly called 'shrinkage', which in reality is theft. The price of your pie or apple is the desired selling price plus your share of the stolen pie. Same principal applies to businesses like BW - if some people 'steal' their services then the paying customer base must carry that cost.

 

What do you do if you see someone being attacked in the street (or in Tesco). That is nothing to do with you either. Do you walk away from that too?

 

 

 

Anyway Blackrose, you are just a rebel, and the world needs rebels, life would be dull without them :-)

[blackrose]

Retail Businesses like Tescos build in enormous sums of money into their costs for something glibly called 'shrinkage', which in reality is theft. The price of your pie or apple is the desired selling price plus your share of the stolen pie. Same principal applies to businesses like BW - if some people 'steal' their services then the paying customer base must carry that cost.

You're forgetting about the shareholders, they may also carry that cost. Do you honestly believe that if BW managed to licence all the unlicenced boats they would reduce the rate of licence price hikes or invest all that extra revenue in waterways maintenance? If so you must be very naive.

 

What do you do if you see someone being attacked in the street (or in Tesco). That is nothing to do with you either. Do you walk away from that too?

No, depending on the level of personal danger. I would try to intervene, and may I say what a particularly crass argument that is.

Tescos can look after themselves as can BW, someone being attacked in the street may not be able to.

 

Anyway Blackrose, you are just a rebel, and the world needs rebels, life would be dull without them :-)

Or conversely, perhaps you're just a conformist...

Edited January 8, 2008 by blackrose

[WJM]

Points duly noted.

 

Diversity of opinion; life's rich tapestry. How dull life would be if we all thought the same thing!

[carlt]

What do you do if you see someone being attacked in the street (or in Tesco). That is nothing to do with you either. Do you walk away from that too?

 

There is a difference between assault and tax evasion (as any accountant will tell you).

 

Saying that, though, in the 80's, I was riding my motorbike down the street in Coventry and saw a man pinning a woman down and beating her, on the back of the head. I stopped and dragged the bloke off and started giving him a bit of the same.

 

Then the woman jumped on my back, got her hand under my visor and was scratching my face to ribbons screaming "Get your hands of my effing husband!"

 

I withdrew and left them to their sorry little existence and I swore I wouldn't intervene ever again....until I dragged three lads off the UCC day boat, of course.

[blackrose]

There is a difference between assault and tax evasion (as any accountant will tell you).

 

Saying that, though, in the 80's, I was riding my motorbike down the street in Coventry and saw a man pinning a woman down and beating her, on the back of the head. I stopped and dragged the bloke off and started giving him a bit of the same.

 

Then the woman jumped on my back, got her hand under my visor and was scratching my face to ribbons screaming "Get your hands of my effing husband!"

Any policeman will tell you about that phenomenon. I knew an Australian bouncer who stopped a big bloke from beating up his girlfriend in a Brisbane club he was working in, only to find the woman sinking her teeth into his arm while he was holding the man down!

 

I once intervened to stop a man beating up his wife one night in a Tokyo street. She was on the ground being punched and as I approached I shouted at him in my bad Japanese. They both got up, held hands and shouted back at me agressively

Edited January 8, 2008 by blackrose

[tomsk]

Any policeman will tell you about that phenomenon. I knew an Australian bouncer who stopped a big bloke from beating up his girlfriend in a Brisbane club he was working in, only to find her sinking her teeth into his arm while he was holding the man down!

 

I once intervened to stop a man beating up his wife one night in a Tokyo street. She was on the ground being punched and as I approached I shouted at him in my bad Japanese. They both got up, held hands and shouted back at me agressively

 

 

So would I if I were approached by Smeagel shouting unintelligable nonsense at me.

[Nige G]

met lots of people out on long cruises that are medically retired "invalidity benefit" and the new crackdown to get invalidity claiments back to work could see trouble ahead for them.

if you can manage a narrowboat you can manage to work , much tougher tests are promised ,having had a heart attack will no longer excuse people from getting a job.

 

 

Blah blah whinge moan scrounging tossers etc etc...

 

What has that got to do with my question???

[Bones]

Smeagel

 

 

I LOVE smeagel I had forgotten, but you have just re-lit the fire. Awwwwww.

 

My boat hasn't had a licence for months - I put the stickers in a safe place never to be found again. I still haven't received my Gold Licence for this year. My boat is more of the 'scruffy' brigade than the 'shiny' brigade, and I keep expecting it to have been towed away when I get home. It hasn't so far.

 

I have noticed however that I get more notes on my boat than my neighbour did (and he has a shiny boat) despite the fact we had been in the same place for the same amount of time, for the same reasons.

[carlt]

Blah blah whinge moan scrounging tossers etc etc...

 

What has that got to do with my question???

If you qualify for housing benefit the local authority will pay your mooring (but not always your licence).

[Nige G]

I LOVE smeagel I had forgotten, but you have just re-lit the fire. Awwwwww.

 

My boat hasn't had a licence for months - I put the stickers in a safe place never to be found again. I still haven't received my Gold Licence for this year. My boat is more of the 'scruffy' brigade than the 'shiny' brigade, and I keep expecting it to have been towed away when I get home. It hasn't so far.

 

I have noticed however that I get more notes on my boat than my neighbour did (and he has a shiny boat) despite the fact we had been in the same place for the same amount of time, for the same reasons.

 

 

I can get you a very large can of T-Cut if you like