Marina safety equipment advice please

[Chris John]

I have just taken up a leisure mooring in a large modern marina which has a large workshop with all the facilities etc. 

However there is absolutely no safety equipment. No life rings, throw lines, escape ladders, fire extinguishers or emergency assembly points. 
As it’s a place of work for a number of people I’d have thought as a minimum HSE would require the safety equipment, let alone the fact there are residential moorings (although this may not actually have licensing for permanent residents) 
 

Can someone advise what the requirement is for such a marina and under who the requirement falls (HSE, local council, fire brigade etc) 
Also advice on who to/ how I should report this. As a new moorer I feel if I approach the management it will not go down well and it really is an accident, or worse waiting to happen. 
 

Thanks 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Chris John said:

I have just taken up a leisure mooring in a large modern marina which has a large workshop with all the facilities etc. 

However there is absolutely no safety equipment. No life rings, throw lines, escape ladders, fire extinguishers or emergency assembly points. 
As it’s a place of work for a number of people I’d have thought as a minimum HSE would require the safety equipment, let alone the fact there are residential moorings (although this may not actually have licensing for permanent residents) 
 

Can someone advise what the requirement is for such a marina and under who the requirement falls (HSE, local council, fire brigade etc) 
Also advice on who to/ how I should report this. As a new moorer I feel if I approach the management it will not go down well and it really is an accident, or worse waiting to happen. 
 

Thanks 

 

So you want to be asked to leave the marina in double quick time then.

 

If you fell into most marinas (not all) you can easily stand up with the water barely up to your waist. When you are on your boat, I would expect you to have your own life ring/throw line ready for use, and you also have the fire extinguishers demanded by the BSS. If you have a modern boat, it should have been built with a means of climbing back onto it. if it is older, you can do as I did and supply & fit my own.

 

Why is a fire assembly point so important to you? Do you have one at home? Work out how you will deal with a fire on your boat or one moored close to you, and it is job done.

 

If you don't feel safe there, then rather than try to force your views on others, just find a marina with all that you require.

[Chris John]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

So you want to be asked to leave the marina in double quick time then.

 

If you fell into most marinas (not all) you can easily stand up with the water barely up to your waist. When you are on your boat, I would expect you to have your own life ring/throw line ready for use, and you also have the fire extinguishers demanded by the BSS. If you have a modern boat, it should have been built with a means of climbing back onto it. if it is older, you can do as I did and supply & fit my own.

 

Why is a fire assembly point so important to you? Do you have one at home? Work out how you will deal with a fire on your boat or one moored close to you, and it is job done.

 

If you don't feel safe there, then rather than try to force your views on others, just find a marina with all that you require.

It’s at least 6 ft deep not many can stand up in that and if someone falls in they’ll struggle to get out. 
 

I was asking for advice not putting my views on anyone. 
 

For a large company who has a number of marinas you may think it’s acceptable. I don’t. 
 

Of course I could move. 
 

Not sure you offered advice I didn’t already know but to be expected I guess 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Chris John said:

It’s at least 6 ft deep not many can stand up in that and if someone falls in they’ll struggle to get out. 
 

I was asking for advice not putting my views on anyone. 
 

For a large company who has a number of marinas you may think it’s acceptable. I don’t. 
 

Of course I could move. 
 

Not sure you offered advice I didn’t already know but to be expected I guess 

 

Well, by all means write to the HSA, but I doubt they will do anything unless there is a serious accident, and if there was I doubt they would need telling about the perceived shortfalls. You may even find that the marina have done their risk assessments and have their mitigations in place, but they simply do not accord with your view of what is necessary.

 

Your initial post seems very much like trying to stir up trouble or poking a wasp nest with a stick. There is likely to be only one looser, and it is not the marina company.

 

If your actions caused all the live-aboards to be evicted, think how popular you would be, you have now shown your hand to them and the marina staff, so it won't be difficult to work out who caused all the trouble.

[matty40s]

You can either put up and shut up, or take a few sneaky pics and report your concerns.

However, you cannot do the 2nd anonymously.

[Chris John]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Well, by all means write to the HSA, but I doubt they will do anything unless there is a serious accident, and if there was I doubt they would need telling about the perceived shortfalls. You may even find that the marina have done their risk assessments and have their mitigations in place, but they simply do not accord with your view of what is necessary.

 

Your initial post seems very much like trying to stir up trouble or poking a wasp nest with a stick. There is likely to be only one looser, and it is not the marina company.

 

If your actions caused all the live-aboards to be evicted, think how popular you would be, you have now shown your hand to them and the marina staff, so it won't be difficult to work out who caused all the trouble.

HSE is about preventing accidents not acting after an accident has happened. 
 

So Tony you dont know what the requirement is for marina safety, these are not my perceived shortfalls they are shortfalls of the marina company. 
 

I’m  not stirring up trouble. If you pay top price for a marina and facilities they should be right. 
 

So in your view I leave it and wait for an accident or fatality to happen. 
 

Thanks for your advice ! 

[LadyG]

As long as the pontoons are clean and not slippery I don't see you have anything to worry about.

Take a torch with you if you are about at night and put this down to new boat nerves.  Just wait till you go out and about with your boat, lol.

PS be aware you have no security of tenure at the marina.

Edited October 6 by LadyG

[Chris John]

25 minutes ago, matty40s said:

You can either put up and shut up, or take a few sneaky pics and report your concerns.

However, you cannot do the 2nd anonymously.

I’m not sure you can take photos of something that’s not there 🤣

[haggis]

I think you are in the wrong marina! Might be a good idea to  find one which meets your requirements then you won't worry as much as you obviously are at the moment. 

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, Chris John said:

HSE is about preventing accidents not acting after an accident has happened. 
 

So Tony you dont know what the requirement is for marina safety, these are not my perceived shortfalls they are shortfalls of the marina company. 
 

I’m  not stirring up trouble. If you pay top price for a marina and facilities they should be right. 
 

So in your view I leave it and wait for an accident or fatality to happen. 
 

Thanks for your advice ! 

 

So, your concern is not for the marina staff who are the concern of the HSE, the bit about the workshop and staff is just padding to try to make things seem worse. The HSE is concerned with workplace safety.

 

I can't see the MCA having any concerns about the owners and occupiers of private boats until there is an accident, but by all means write to them and tell us how far you get.

 

You could also try writing to your local fire service, and again see how far you get. All the public services are badly underfunded, so are very unlikely to take much notice of an individual's complaint.

 

You could try writing to the local authority about the live-aboards, but you don't know for sure that they are nor perfectly legal.

 

If you are so sure that things are not right, you should also know the authority responsible for enforcing the regulations that you think have been broken. This has the smell of a disgruntled customer trying to get their own back.

Edited October 6 by Tony Brooks

[Rod Stewart]

A marina I was moored in had the misfortune of a visit from the health and safety police. They were alerted to a so called  problem when a moorer broke their ankle whilst trying to get on their boat. This boat owner had only been at the marina a few months,after having their boat craned in. They had absolutely no clue about boats and boating and had no interest in finding out. They seemed surprised that boats and pontoons actually moved.

 

Not wishing to take any responsibility for what had happened,they tried to place blame on the marina owner, and eventually got the H&S people to visit the marina.

 

The result was that the boat owner was asked to leave,the owner was forced to undertake some upgrades,and the mooring fees went up for everyone else moored there to pay for these so called improvements. The boat owner wasn't actually able to move their boat themselves,and had to pay for it to be moved. The marina is no safer than it ever was, but thankfully has one less idiot mooring there.

 

It transpired later that the person who had complained was intoxicated.

 

It amazes me that some people arrive at a marina  and instantly want to try and 'improve' it for themselves at the expense of others who are happy with things as they are.

[Paul C]

I don't think there are ANY requirements. 

 

My rationale is that "marina" covers a broad range of moorings, from the simple 1-2 boats end of field, to a larger online mooring, to a finger-pontoon style broadened stretch of canal, to an offline marina. Sure, they could impose a stepped set of rules/requirements depending on size, but I don't believe they do.

 

My advice would be to equip yourself and your boat with whatever you feel you need for your own personal safety - be it a decent torch for the winter months, lifejacket, better/more appropriate footwear, rescue ladder, liferings on the boat etc. It also has the advantage its near to hand if/when you go cruising.

[howardang]

Have you taken up your concerns with the Marina Manager?

It is also difficult for others to comment on perceived issues about an unnamed marina - I note that you haven't named the marina in question - and it might be worth naming them so any other members of this forum who may be moored there can comment.

 

Howard

Edited October 6 by howardang

[Ex Brummie]

43 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 This has the smell of a disgruntled customer trying to get their own back.

More like this has the smell of an individual who has got used to being told others should take responsibility for their safety/wellbeing instead of thinking for themselves.

[Mike Hurley]

Buy a load of bubble wrap from Amazon, turn off the gas, wrap yourself up and stay on the sofa, should be safe there.

[Arthur Marshall]

I'm pleased to say that where I moor the H&S rules are stated in our contract as "moorers are responsible for maintaining their landing stages". Occasionally a notice appears on the gate saying the electric fence is switched on.

If you want to live by water, one should expect to be responsible for one's own safety. Arthur Ransome said it best "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown" (as far as I recall).

[LadyG]

9 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'm pleased to say that where I moor the H&S rules are stated in our contract as "moorers are responsible for maintaining their landing stages". Occasionally a notice appears on the gate saying the electric fence is switched on.

If you want to live by water, one should expect to be responsible for one's own safety. Arthur Ransome said it best "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown" (as far as I recall).

I dont see how one could maintain pontoons if they are rotten and sinking.

I must admit I was astounded at lack of maintenance of locks and often of the huge ankle breaking holes in the grass or in the stonework. But CRT dont seem to be sued for drowning or broken legs etc. So guess its  let the publuc and the users take care of themselves . Just like crossing the road, , don't walk in front of a bus / train / tram / lorry / car / bicycle etc etc

Edited October 6 by LadyG

[haggis]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I dont see how one could maintain pontoons if they are rotten and sinking.

You don't let them get to that stage!

[matty40s]

Why not, I extended my mooring from 55ft to 70 feet of usable space this Summer..

[Chris John]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

So, your concern is not for the marina staff who are the concern of the HSE, the bit about the workshop and staff is just padding to try to make things seem worse. The HSE is concerned with workplace safety.

 

I can't see the MCA having any concerns about the owners and occupiers of private boats until there is an accident, but by all means write to them and tell us how far you get.

 

You could also try writing to your local fire service, and again see how far you get. All the public services are badly underfunded, so are very unlikely to take much notice of an individual's complaint.

 

You could try writing to the local authority about the live-aboards, but you don't know for sure that they are nor perfectly legal.

 

If you are so sure that things are not right, you should also know the authority responsible for enforcing the regulations that you think have been broken. This has the smell of a disgruntled customer trying to get their own back.

You are assuming so much Tony. 
I never once stated who my concerns were for, but hay ho you’ve done that for me. 
I never said I was concerned about live aboards at the marina. Never mind you’ve decided I did. 
 

You really should stop assuming things for other people. I asked legitimate questions and was expecting helpful answers to concerns for the safety of all using the marina. 
 

What  I’ll do is forget it and wait for that child to fall in and drown then people like yourself can step off the other side of that high horse and say what others should have done 
 

 

[LadyG]

12 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Why not, I extended my mooring from 55ft to 70 feet of usable space this Summer..

Y3s, but

I seem to recall you are an  engineer, therefore have some sort of experience of construction and a van full of handy tools.

I trust you did not buy materials or use business  resources for this construction  . The taxman has strict rules. Not that everyone bothers about that kind of thing nowadays 

 

Edited October 6 by LadyG

[Chris John]

2 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

More like this has the smell of an individual who has got used to being told others should take responsibility for their safety/wellbeing instead of thinking for themselves.

Not at all. Very happy with my mooring. 
I think I’ll wait until that unfortunate child drowns because there’s no safety equipment then you can all make assumptions and kick off again 

Edited October 6 by Chris John

[LadyG]

15 minutes ago, haggis said:

You don't let them get to that stage!

The pontoons are owned by the marina , not the renter.

[matty40s]

One of the other marina pontoons was ripped in half and destroyed in March gales. This was replaced on insurance by the marina owner.

The removed halves were left on the bank, so I stripped down all usable wood supports, found some old scaff poles and clamps, spent £250 on new decking, and 2 weekends working on it. 

I'm not an engineer, not ever been in construction and have no van.

(...but yes, I have a boat FULL of tools says Kathy..)

[pearley]

Tingdene have been very busy improving some of their H & S. At the beginning of the year they doubled the number of escape ladders. Then they fitted extension poles with flags on the top. Then they put extra signs on the nearest piles to indicate where the ladders were. And finally they tied a whistle on each ladder. Of course you can't see the ladders in the dark and if you fell in on the wrong side you would need to dive under the pontoon to find a ladder which is likely to be on the end of a finger pontoon which is not where you would fall in.

 

Standing up in Hartford Marina is not an option as being an old gravel pit it's about 16ft deep at our pontoon.

 

Water quality at each tap is checked monthly and the electricity pillars every few months.

 

We have several fire extinguishers which are checked regularly and fire alarms and fire assembly points. Except when we had a boat fire last Christmas no one sounded the alarm. It was the sirens that woke us. And we couldn't leave the boat as the firemen closed the pontoon off.