Boat builder advice

[Freya23]

I'm new to hosting and am interested in a boat made in 1998 by Terry Milson. I've tried to research the builder but can't find anything about him. What is the general consensus and is there anything I should be aware of?

[Tracy D'arth]

Is he a shell builder or a fitter-out?

[ditchcrawler]

Welcome to the forum.

At that age any problems with build should have been sorted long ago, what has happened in the past 25 years is more important 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Freya23 said:

I'm new to hosting

 

Welcome to the forum Freya!

 

May I enquire what you mean by this? Do you mean you intend renting this boat out? Or is it a typo for "new to boating"? 

 

 

[David Mack]

Canalplan only finds a couple of matches.

There are 2 records that match your query

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Schiehallion Built by Terry Milsom - Length : 17.374 metres ( 57 feet ) - Beam : 2.08 metres ( 6 feet 10 inches ) - Draft : 0.61 metres ( 2 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 67 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 503915 as a Powered Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

 

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White Skies III Built by Terry Milsom in 2003 - Length : 17.9 metres ( 58 feet 9 inches ) - Beam : 2 metres ( 6 feet 7 inches ) Inboard Diesel capacity of 35 CC. Registered with Environment Authority - Thames Region number F015121 as a Non Hire Annual Private Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 1st April 2009 )

 

So he wasn't a prolific builder/fitter-outer.

As already noted, the life it has had, the way it has been looked after and its current condition are far more important than the builder reputation on a boat of this age.

 

[Freya23]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Welcome to the forum Freya!

 

May I enquire what you mean by this? Do you mean you intend renting this boat out? Or is it a typo for "new to boating"? 

 

 

*Boating! 

Also, I've read through all of the advice and pros/cons of having concrete block/poured ballust. I'm trying to avoid any form of concrete but can't find information anywhere about which makers don't use it or which age of boat is unlikely to have it. I don't have the time or funds to get a shell fitted out or buy a really new boat. If the majority do have some form of concrete in there am I safe to go for blocked concrete, rather than spending time I dont have on looking for a boat alternative ballust,  and just be aware of the risks?

 

Thank you for your advice!!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 hours ago, David Mack said:

Canalplan only finds a couple of matches.

There are 2 records that match your query

---

Schiehallion Built by Terry Milsom - Length : 17.374 metres ( 57 feet ) - Beam : 2.08 metres ( 6 feet 10 inches ) - Draft : 0.61 metres ( 2 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 67 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 503915 as a Powered Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

 

---

White Skies III Built by Terry Milsom in 2003 - Length : 17.9 metres ( 58 feet 9 inches ) - Beam : 2 metres ( 6 feet 7 inches ) Inboard Diesel capacity of 35 CC. Registered with Environment Authority - Thames Region number F015121 as a Non Hire Annual Private Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 1st April 2009 )

 

So he wasn't a prolific builder/fitter-outer.

As already noted, the life it has had, the way it has been looked after and its current condition are far more important than the builder reputation on a boat of this age.

 

There are a lot of folk out there who built a few boats in their time over the decades since leisure boating became popular. It has always been a cottage industry. Double digit boats built makes you a big player. Three digits, a giant in the business. Terry Milsom may have only done the interior fit out, not the shell build. There have been and still are many fit out specialists that get their steel shells from a smaller number of fabricators.

 

[David Mack]

41 minutes ago, Freya23 said:

I'm trying to avoid any form of concrete but can't find information anywhere about which makers don't use it or which age of boat is unlikely to have it.

There's no way of knowing what ballast has been used without looking under the floor. See if there are any removable floor panels which would enable you to have a look.

More important to my mind than the type of ballast used is whether the bilge is dry (and has been over the boat's life). A dry bilge, even if very rusty looking, will not have corroded that much from the inside, whereas if it has been perpetually damp then there could be extensive loss of plate thickness to the bottom and footings. Worst form of ballast from that point of view is a mixed aggregate (quarry scalpings or ballast). This is a mix of stone of different sizes down to sand, and just holds moisture without ever drying out.

[jonathanA]

I don't think the type of ballast is going to be your biggest issue on a boat of that age, unless your really looking at 'project boats' that need a complete strip out.  

 

The current owner should really be able to tell you, but what ever boat you seriously look at don't be afraid to peer into every nook, cranny dark corner and hole, regardless of whether you have a survey done or not. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Freya23 said:

Also, I've read through all of the advice and pros/cons of having concrete block/poured ballust.

 

Hopefully you've worked out that concrete block ballast is a totally different kettle of fish from poured concrete then.

 

I'd go as far as to say *most* narrowboats have concrete block ballast (paving stones most often) and broadly its fine. Ideally it should be laid on spacers to stop any bilge water getting trapped under the blocks but there are plenty of boats without, most of them doing fine. Poured concrete is tricky as once set you can't easily move or remove it like you can with blocks, and adjusting the trim of your boat by shifting around bits of ballast is something you're highly likely to want to do, especially after changes to the interior fit-out or layout. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21 by MtB
speeling

[Tony Brooks]

36 minutes ago, David Mack said:

There's no way of knowing what ballast has been used without looking under the floor. See if there are any removable floor panels which would enable you to have a look.

More important to my mind than the type of ballast used is whether the bilge is dry (and has been over the boat's life). A dry bilge, even if very rusty looking, will not have corroded that much from the inside, whereas if it has been perpetually damp then there could be extensive loss of plate thickness to the bottom and footings. Worst form of ballast from that point of view is a mixed aggregate (quarry scalpings or ballast). This is a mix of stone of different sizes down to sand, and just holds moisture without ever drying out.

 

I suspect the OP is conflating poured concrete ballast with concrete block ballast. The latter is fine as long as any water can drain to the back of the boat for pumping out.

 

I think that if you jumped up and down on poured concrete ballasted narrowboat floor, you would be able to tell if you were jumping on "wooden" sheets or solid concert, especially if you had done it on a few different boats. However, the chances of finding many boats with poured concrete ballast is not that great and lifting floor covering is likely to give a clue. I understand one user of poured concrete ballast covered it in a tar type compound.

[Hudds Lad]

53 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

...the chances of finding many boats with poured concrete ballast is not that great...

There's a modern fitter using it now, which i found surprising

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

There's a modern fitter using it now, which i found surprising

 

That seems like unjustified penny-pinching given the cost of a new boat, which could well come back and bit the owner later. Are you going to name names? 😉

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

There's a modern fitter using it now, which i found surprising

 

I know, I think I read about it on here not so long ago, but the number of narrowboats with poured concrete ballast is very small compared wit the total number of boats. Was the builder not somewhere on the Fens.

[Hudds Lad]

It's the one who recently built a hybrid for some YouTubers, featured at Crick, and was doing a boat raffle on socials

[MtB]

34 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

It's the one who recently built a hybrid for some YouTubers, featured at Crick, and was doing a boat raffle on socials

 

It was Oakums Narrowboats IIRC. They mentioned poured concrete ballast specifically in their description of the boat up for raffle IIRC, as though it was a high quality feature and evidence of their high class of building. No mention of it on their website though, AFAICS.

 

https://oakums.co.uk/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here's a long thread discussing poured concrete in detail:

 

 

Edited February 21 by MtB
Add a bit.

[David Mack]

I can recall a friend telling me they hired a newly built boat back in the 70s or early 80s - so new in fact that the poured concrete ballast in the stern had only been poured the morning they picked the boat up! Still at least the wet concrete would have been well vibrated!

Edited February 21 by David Mack