Advice needed! Do I purchase a narrowboat?

[Emmyjoy]

Hi all,

I've come here for some advice. I'm a 24-year-old student and currently, I live in a flat in the city centre. My tenancy runs out in June, and I expect it to increase (with bills included, I currently pay around £800). I also don't want to work as much during my final year to meet the rising costs of living in the flat. Also, my flatmate has just informed me that she wants to move out and for us to go our separate ways, meaning, as of June, I have nowhere to live and no one to live with. It has been a lifelong dream of mine to live on a narrowboat as I think it's such a wonderful way of life and, having grown up in the countryside, I'd love to be closer to nature. I also think it's such a wonderful community to be part of. I also don't want to live in a fixed location as I don't know where I'll be located after uni and don't want to purchase a house if I'm not set on staying in the city I currently live in. Because of this, I'm considering buying a narrowboat. A few years ago, I inherited money from my dad, so I have some money that I could use to purchase a boat. My current budget to buy a boat outright is around £15,000, but I could push it to £25,000 if I found the right boat. Is it possible to buy a decent boat for this price?  Or, would it be better to put a deposit of around £15,000 down on a boat and get a boat mortgage/loan to cover the rest? If I did this, my budget would increase to 30/40,000. Is it possible to get a loan at the age of 24/25 (I'm also self-employed, but do earn a decent amount from my job and have done so for around 3 years. My monthly income is around £1000-£1200 ) Would it be cheaper than renting in the city centre? Also, Is it safe to live on a boat as a single woman and how easy is it to manage locks etc alone? 

Thanks so much for taking the time to read!

Edited January 29 by Emmyjoy

[Tony Brooks]

It might help to know which city you are talking about.

 

I doubt it is any more unsafe loving on a boat than in many cities.

 

If you take your time, locks should be no problem once have worked out a routine.

 

With your budget I fear you will need  a lot of DIY skills, both mechanical and electrical, with a bit of carpentry and painting thrown in

 

Have you read the CaRT movement requirements for boats without a permanent mooring?

 

Do not believe all the blogs and media pieces, if you need to stay in one place for uni then you may need a permenant mooring and then the finances start to look rather different.

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Hi, where do you want to moor, in the city near to university, maybe in a marina where it would be easier to commute or in the countryside where you would have to commute further and could cost more also Which city?

Edited January 29 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Emmyjoy]

Hi All,

Thanks for your reply! I'm currently in Manchester, so I'd like to moor around here - Maybe in Ancoats or Castlefield. I'd have a permanent mooring for a year from this June. Then, I'd continuously cruise.

If I were to get a loan to cover some of the purchase cost of the boat, my budget would then increase to around 30/40,000. If I wanted to purchase outright without a loan, my budget is 15-25,000. I'm also a lover of DIY, so would be more than happy to renovate the boat.

Edited January 29 by Emmyjoy

[kevinl]

Probably not a good idea, say the man who has one just down the road and another in west Cheshire, boat living isn't cheap as you might think.

K

[Momac]

You would need an unsecured loan since you would not get a marine mortgage for the modest sum you are talking about . 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

I’m sure someone with local knowledge of that area will come along soon. As mentioned your budget doesn’t get a lot these days and boat mortgages aren’t that plenty full if at all these days, maybe a personal loan?

  Have a look on Facebook there may be a Manchester Boaters group that could be more informative locally👍

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, Emmyjoy said:

Hi All,

Thanks for your reply! I'm currently in Manchester, so I'd like to moor around here - Maybe in Ancoats or Castlefield. I'd have a permanent mooring for a year from this June. Then, I'd continuously cruise.

If I were to get a loan to cover some of the purchase cost of the boat, my budget would then increase to around 30/40,000. If I wanted to purchase outright without a loan, my budget is 15-25,000. 

 

First of all try to find the cost of a permanent mooring where the proprietors accept residential (as opposed to leisure part-time) moorings or are willing to turn a blind eye, often known as high intensity moorings. It will be all too easy for you to get sold a done up, but worn out, boat with your budget.

 

I don't know the locations you mention but they may be on the Bridgewater canal that is separate from CaRT and I don't think they allow  live aboard moorings. I am sure someone local will correct that fi needed.

Edited January 29 by Tony Brooks

[booke23]

Even stretching to £25,000 will only get you a very low end steel narrowboat which would need work, so I'd definitely suggest you need to secure finance for a decent boat. £35,000 - £40,000 gets you a perfectly good albeit old boat. If you want anything built in the last 20 years that is suitable to live on, you're going to have to spend north of £50,000. Of course financing this sort of sum in addition to mooring fees/licence/boat maintenance/boat deprecation, will probably be close to what your current rent is.

 

The sensible advice would be to use your cash deposit to buy a flat/house.....long term it's by far the better proposition then buy a boat as a hobby later...........But you only live once.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29 by booke23

[ditchcrawler]

28 minutes ago, Emmyjoy said:

Hi all,

I've come here for some advice. I'm a 24-year-old student and currently, I live in a flat in the city centre. My tenancy runs out in June, and I expect it to increase (with bills included, I currently pay around £800). I also don't want to work as much during my final year to meet the rising costs of living in the flat. Also, my flatmate has just informed me that she wants to move out and for us to go our separate ways, meaning, as of June, I have nowhere to live and no one to live with. It has been a lifelong dream of mine to live on a narrowboat as I think it's such a wonderful way of life and, having grown up in the countryside, I'd love to be closer to nature. I also think it's such a wonderful community to be part of. I also don't want to live in a fixed location as I don't know where I'll be located after uni and don't want to purchase a house if I'm not set on staying in the city I currently live in. Because of this, I'm considering buying a narrowboat. A few years ago, I inherited money from my dad, so I have some money that I could use to purchase a boat. My current budget is around £15,000, but I could push it to £25,000 if I found the right boat. Is it possible to buy a decent boat for this price? Is it better to purchase a boat outright? Or, would it be better to put a deposit of around £15,000 down on a boat and get a boat mortgage to cover the rest? Is it possible to get a loan at the age of 24/25 (I'm also self-employed, but do earn a decent amount from my job and have done so for around 3 years)? Would it be cheaper than my current rent? Also, Is it safe to live on a boat as a single woman and how easy is it to manage locks etc alone? 

Thanks so much for taking the time to read!

Welcome to the forum

[Bacchus]

Hi @Emmyjoy, and welcome from me.

 

I think it sounds like a good idea. You might not get the best boat in the world on your budget, but I am sure you could find something, and try not to be put off by the nay-sayers on here. I could certainly live with "privations" when I was your age that I would find unacceptable now. I reckon you should be able to find something for your budget, but do try to keep a bit back for the unexpected (the unexpected is to be expected with boats)

 

 

[David Mack]

The Bridgewater Canal from Castlefield out towards Stretford is owned by the Bridgewater Canal Company, a subsidiary of Peel Holdings. They only allow long term licences for boats with a mooring on the canal and they have to approve your mooring before they will issue a licence. So unless you buy a boat which already has a mooring and that mooring can be transferred to you, then the Bridgewater is probably out.

The rest of the canals in Manchester (other than the Ship Canal) come under CRT. You can in theory 'continuously cruise' but all routes are quite heavily locked so it's not straightforward. Nearest moorings to the city centre are at New Islington Marina. My guess is that they don't have any vacancies, but always worth enquiring. Otherwise there's the marina at Fairfield on the Ashton Canal.

Most of the urban Manchester waterways used to have quite a reputation as 'bandit country'. It isn't anything like as bad these days, but I think many people would still consider that being a liveaboard shuffling up and down the towpath in these area wouldn't be the wisest thing for a single woman boater.

[Mike Tee]

You also need to do a “time” audit. You are studying, also working so I assume not much spare time - there will be regular necessary jobs to do on a boat, water, effluent, maintenance etc. Do you have time for a boat? 

[Arthur Marshall]

There are alternatives to marinas for living on, I and many other have lived on farm moorings, though you may struggle to find any in city centres! They're cheaper, and whether you can live on depends on the farmer. And you'll need transport to get to either uni or work.

[Emmyjoy]

Hi, yes, I do have the time. I'm only in uni one day as I'm part-time and I only teach 2 days per week. I am aware of the necessary jobs. I have researched this for a while and lived near canals when I was younger. This isn't just a spur-of-the-moment decision. 

Edited January 29 by Emmyjoy

[David Mack]

If you are a continuous cruiser you are supposed to move about rather than hang around in one area. That is not always easy if you are tied to a single location for work or education. That said, it will take CRT a while to catch up with your lack of movement, so if this is only for a year, and you can make some trips further afield during university holidays, you would probably get away with it.

If you are a student and working then I don't think you will have a lot of time and energy for a boat that needs any significant amount of work (even if you have the necessary skills). So you really should be looking at a boat which you can just move onto. There will still be things to do and problems to sort out, but they should be more manageable if you don't have to do a refit at the same time.

If you borrow some money to augment your savings you should be able to get an older boat which fits the bill. A bank personal loan is probably the cheapest source of finance available to you (if the bank of Mum and Dad can't help).

[Mike Tee]

If your ‘working’ life is only 3 days a week, and you are coping financially, I’d say you have life cracked already!

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, booke23 said:

 

 

The sensible advice would be to use your cash deposit to buy a flat/house.....long term it's by far the better proposition then buy a boat as a hobby later...........But you only live once.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The sensible advice is to establish a good career!

Aged 24, and still studying plus a part time job already sounds quite demanding.

The boat would be fine from June to October, then it gets tough. It will likely not be as cheap as the budget forecasts.

I understand OP is happy to do some decorating, however, it can be a very slow job, and other than a fresh coat of paint on the deckhead, time consuming.

Most technical problems eg electricity and propulsion are going to be unfamiliar, she might not need professional help, but it can all be a steep learning process, even without any "failures"

There are unexpected expenses, one may need to have a few thousand ready for contingencies.

I would not recommend taking out a loan until in full time employment. 

Another thing is the lack of social interaction with people of your own age, unless the boat is in a marina, it becomes a priority, and will need daily care, keeping warm, generating electricity, etc.

 

 

Edited January 29 by LadyG

[Tony1]

 

Apologies if you've already considered this option and discounted it, but for anyone who wants a liveaboard craft with a lower budget, I would always suggest taking a quick look at a large GRP cruiser like the viking 32cc.

If you include the covered centre cockpit (although in winter you can't really do that), it has not much less interior space than many 45ft narrowboats.

It will definitely need some significant upgrades to make it comfortable to live on, and especially during the 3 or 4 coldest months of the year: things like a solid fuel stove, extra water tanks, a security/locking system to protect the outboard motor from theft, more batteries, an upgraded engine/battery charging system, to name a few. 

But it will be cheaper to license, cheaper to keep in a marina if needed, easier to find a mooring space in busy places, and easier to manoeuvre and to turn around without needing a full size winding hole, and it wont need biannual blacking

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/viking-cruisers-32-for-sale/734713

 

Just a thought. 

 

 

Edited January 29 by Tony1

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Bacchus said:

Hi @Emmyjoy, and welcome from me.

 

I think it sounds like a good idea. You might not get the best boat in the world on your budget, but I am sure you could find something, and try not to be put off by the nay-sayers on here. I could certainly live with "privations" when I was your age that I would find unacceptable now. I reckon you should be able to find something for your budget, but do try to keep a bit back for the unexpected (the unexpected is to be expected with boats)

 

 

She could buy a decent GRP boat, but finding  one that is genuinely suitable for liveaboard, ie with a solid fuel stove and an inboard diesel will be difficult.

They were never designed for that job, but I have seen a few that have been successfully adapted. 

GrP boats tend to have big windows and minimal insulation, thus cold and damp in winter.

Edited January 29 by LadyG

[MtB]

I was in a similar position in 1976 and bought a boat instead of a house. At the time it seemed a good idea to us and a terrible idea to our parents and everyone else older and wiser.

 

Thing is, we succeeded with it big time and gained a decade of life experience with every year we lived aboard. The benefits of living aboard are broader and far more subtle than simply somewhere to live. Nowadays I am comfortably off, partly as a result of the rather brutal life education living in a cheap old sinker gave me/us back then. 

[Emmyjoy]

1 hour ago, Mike Tee said:

If your ‘working’ life is only 3 days a week, and you are coping financially, I’d say you have life cracked already!

Thanks! I landed a pretty good Job a few years back that pays £30 per hour so working two/three full days is more than enough to cover my bills. 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

If you are a continuous cruiser you are supposed to move about rather than hang around in one area. That is not always easy if you are tied to a single location for work or education. That said, it will take CRT a while to catch up with your lack of movement, so if this is only for a year, and you can make some trips further afield during university holidays, you would probably get away with it.

If you are a student and working then I don't think you will have a lot of time and energy for a boat that needs any significant amount of work (even if you have the necessary skills). So you really should be looking at a boat which you can just move onto. There will still be things to do and problems to sort out, but they should be more manageable if you don't have to do a refit at the same time.

If you borrow some money to augment your savings you should be able to get an older boat which fits the bill. A bank personal loan is probably the cheapest source of finance available to you (if the bank of Mum and Dad can't help).

Hi, thanks for the advice! unfortunately there’s no mum or dad to help so it’s just me supporting myself!

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

I was in a similar position in 1976 and bought a boat instead of a house. At the time it seemed a good idea to us and a terrible idea to our parents and everyone else older and wiser.

 

Thing is, we succeeded with it big time and gained a decade of life experience with every year we lived aboard. The benefits of living aboard are broader and far more subtle than simply somewhere to live. Nowadays I am comfortably off, partly as a result of the rather brutal life education living in a cheap old sinker gave me/us back then. 

Hi, thanks so much for your post! It’s reassured me that this option isn’t a silly idea!

[dmr]

I don't think you can CC round Manchester and hold down a job/study, not even an expeienced boater would be comfortable with that.

Living on a boat is expensive in both time and money, its the maintenance that gets you, don't believe all the cost spreadsheets dreamt up by people who have not done it. You really need a lot of money or a lot of DIY skills, but if you have the right head some DIY skills can be acquired quite quickly and other boaters will help.

As mtb says, it can be good.

Look at New Islington marina but not sure how much it costs or what te waiting list is. 

Also maybe talk to Bronte boats about a spot in Todmorden or Hebden Bridge, both have good rail links to Manchester.

This stuff does not really work on the phone/email, you will need to do it face to face.

If you have a car then CCing the Mac and PeakForest just might be possible, but quite a bit of driving.

[Emmyjoy]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

I don't think you can CC round Manchester and hold down a job/study, not even an expeienced boater would be comfortable with that.

Living on a boat is expensive in both time and money, its the maintenance that gets you, don't believe all the cost spreadsheets dreamt up by people who have not done it. You really need a lot of money or a lot of DIY skills, but if you have the right head some DIY skills can be acquired quite quickly and other boaters will help.

As mtb says, it can be good.

Look at New Islington marina but not sure how much it costs or what te waiting list is. 

Also maybe talk to Bronte boats about a spot in Todmorden or Hebden Bridge, both have good rail links to Manchester.

This stuff does not really work on the phone/email, you will need to do it face to face.

If you have a car then CCing the Mac and PeakForest just might be possible, but quite a bit of driving.

Hi, i’d be looking for a permanent mooring. I wouldn’t cc for a few years.

Edited January 29 by Emmyjoy

[dmr]

Have a look at New Islington, its a good trendy spot right in the middle of Manchester, not a clue what it costs but I suspect its a lot.