Barrus Shanks stop solenoid button/switch?

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Maybe because it’s a simple way, just turn the key and the engine stops, there are also Barrus control panels with engine stop buttons, far easier than pull stop cables. It’s not just Barrus but the majority of modern engine supplies are the same.

 

 Once again your going on about nothing really, just rabbiting on but not identifying the problem, the problem is the OP has put little info on to what caused the problem, he hasn’t mentioned the solenoid is working or not, he sort of indicates it would work if this button/switch is fitted?

 You jump in with all your over egg stuff but you never ask basic questions like Why is she using her hand and not the key stop? You just go into your overkill tech stuff, maybe “keep it simple stupid” and start with the basic fault finding, fuses and multi meter to test supply voltage. But the OP is not responding so if he cant be bothered maybe it’s not worth bothering about.

 

Oh, so you did not read that the OP seems to have found the stop solenoid disconnected? Why it was disconnected, we do not know - neither of us. You do not seem to have asked yourself why the stop solenoid was disconnected, or if you did you decided it must have been done for no reason, whereas I assume a fault with the circuit or solenoid. Once the OP has checked the fuses and the other end of the various solenoid cables, all that is left is a wiring fault (it could still be the multiway plug most marinises like to use) or a faulty solenoid.

 

The OP's question in no way indicated that he thinks it would work if reconnected. He asked a question about the possibility of using a switch. I took that as a first step in trying to resolve the issue, and he was told no, once more information came to light.

 

Basically, you can not bring yourself to admit that a Bowden cable is a simple fix that would do the job. You can also not bring yourself to admit that a Beta type stop solenoid would also do the job.

Edited January 28 by Tony Brooks

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

If the male end of the plug has come  loose he just needs to re-connect or is he not clever enough to work that out, or he hasn’t found the female end, surely he must of sussed that. But we don’t know. We don’t know if everything was working on key when she bought the boat. Until the OP can be bothered to fill in the empty spaces and enlightened the thread with more info, I’m not really bothered guessing the problem. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

If the male end of the plug has come  loose he just needs to re-connect or is he not clever enough to work that out, or he hasn’t found the female end, surely he must of sussed that. But we don’t know. We don’t know if everything was working on key when she bought the boat. Until the OP can be bothered to fill in the empty spaces and enlightened the thread with more info, I’m not really bothered guessing the problem. 

Sounds dangerous to be reaching in to pull a lever to stop the engine,

I’d have to be taking up the boards each time and reaching under the alternator.

….an accident waiting to happen

 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

49 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

Sounds dangerous to be reaching in to pull a lever to stop the engine,

I’d have to be taking up the boards each time and reaching under the alternator.

….an accident waiting to happen

 

 

 

 I wonder if he still has a girlfriend or is now single after her serious accident turning the engine off, I know my girlfriend wouldn’t be impressed with me if I never sorted it for her and just kept telling her it was extremely dangerous 👋🏥

Edited January 28 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

30 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 I wonder if he still has a girlfriend or is now single after her serious accident turning the engine off, I know my girlfriend wouldn’t be impressed with me if I never sorted it for her and just kept telling her it was extremely dangerous 👋🏥

 

It might be some time before a more practical solution is found, 

I hope she can use her other arm in the meantime?

 

[Tony Brooks]

38 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

It might be some time before a more practical solution is found, 

I hope she can use her other arm in the meantime?

 

 

Someone did suggest a piece of string as an interim solution, and that would work as long as the end and route of the string was safe.

[Slim]

11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I lay in bed last night thinking about this, it was one of those sorts of nights. If this relay has to be energised for the engine to run, how is the engine running now with the relay completely disconnected . Maybe the OP would like to come back and give us more information.

How sad. Said in jest😀😀

10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

One thing is for sure, it is not a single connection "screw into the injector pump" type solenoid as found on some BMC 1.8s and the Bosch rotary pumps.

That's what I had on my BMC 1.8 and it gave me occasional issues over the years. My fall back option was to have a suitably sized spanner (injector high pressure nut). To stop engine ,loosen nuts, let the engine stall and sort the problem out later. (worked for me)😇 

[Tasemu]

Apologies for the late reply, so it turns out the stop solenoid already on the engine and it was disconnected from the loom. Previous owner never bothered to mention this... I reconnected it but no luck so i'm guessing it could be a new solenoid required? Either way its a bit late now, but the sooner i fix it the better.

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Apologies for the late reply, so it turns out the stop solenoid already on the engine and it was disconnected from the loom. Previous owner never bothered to mention this... I reconnected it but no luck so i'm guessing it could be a new solenoid required? Either way its a bit late now, but the sooner i fix it the better.

 

Please use the wiring diagram so you can check for voltage at the loom half of the connector. I think it is on the engine side of the main mulit-plug, so look at that as well. If you have voltage and I think a negative at the loom plug and it does not work then, yes, a new solenoid unless you want to fit a workaround solution, but by the looks of it £88 for a new solenoid makes it an expensive fault. Remember, check the fuses, I think more than one may be involved.

[jonathanA]

22 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Apologies for the late reply, so it turns out the stop solenoid already on the engine and it was disconnected from the loom. Previous owner never bothered to mention this... I reconnected it but no luck so i'm guessing it could be a new solenoid required? Either way its a bit late now, but the sooner i fix it the better.

probably...  but as mentioned there are two fuses involved so worth checking them for being blown or poor connections and maybe bench testing it before shelling out for new one.  I think i would test the voltages at the 4 pole connector, it looked like Red was permanent 12v+ , black neg, grey ignition live and the other was +12V from the starter.  problem might be finding the fuses 🙂 to check

Edited February 3 by jonathanA
cross posted with Tony.

[Tasemu]

27 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

probably...  but as mentioned there are two fuses involved so worth checking them for being blown or poor connections and maybe bench testing it before shelling out for new one.  I think i would test the voltages at the 4 pole connector, it looked like Red was permanent 12v+ , black neg, grey ignition live and the other was +12V from the starter.  problem might be finding the fuses 🙂 to check

 

Good call, cheers mate i'll do that and report back 👍

[Ewan123]

On 28/01/2024 at 15:13, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

Sounds dangerous to be reaching in to pull a lever to stop the engine,

I’d have to be taking up the boards each time and reaching under the alternator.

….an accident waiting to happen

 

 

 

This does make me thankful that the stop lever is on the top/side of our Isuzu without a need to reach past any moving parts.

[Eeyore]

I think there's something else going on here.

The solenoid is a pull in type given that the integral "linkage" is a flexible wire that can not be used in a "push" application.

The image of the green pump (from Barrus operators manual) seems to show the solenoid energised with the lever to the left; in the run position.

The image of the silver pump (from Barrus parts shop) seems to show the lever held in the stop position by a spring hooked around it close to the spindle. Edited to include Tony Brooks observation of the return spring.

SO HOW DOES THIS ENGINE RUN WITH THE SOLENOID DISCONNECTED?

 

A similar image of the engine in question would be handy at this point.

 

 

Edited February 4 by Eeyore

[Tony Brooks]

Both images seem to show the end of what is probably a return spring wrapped around the lever on the right of the pumps, that I take to be the stop control, because the lever on the left has maximum and idle stop screws by it. However, that rather shoots my suspicion that it is an energised to run solenoid, and that seems contrary to the wiring diagrams.

 

The lower image seems to show that it has a control cable fitted to it, so perhaps that is holding against the spring.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

21 hours ago, Tasemu said:

Apologies for the late reply, so it turns out the stop solenoid already on the engine and it was disconnected from the loom. Previous owner never bothered to mention this... I reconnected it but no luck so i'm guessing it could be a new solenoid required? Either way its a bit late now, but the sooner i fix it the better.

“SO HOW DOES THIS ENGINE RUN WITH THE SOLENOID DISCONNECTED?”

 Well it seams to of been like that for a couple of years since he bought the boat.

 

[Eeyore]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Both images seem to show the end of what is probably a return spring wrapped around the lever on the right of the pumps, that I take to be the stop control, because the lever on the left has maximum and idle stop screws by it. However, that rather shoots my suspicion that it is an energised to run solenoid, and that seems contrary to the wiring diagrams.

 

The lower image seems to show that it has a control cable fitted to it, so perhaps that is holding against the spring.

Thanks for that Tony, my trip to Specsavers must be overdue.

21 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

“SO HOW DOES THIS ENGINE RUN WITH THE SOLENOID DISCONNECTED?”

 Well it seams to of been like that for a couple of years since he bought the boat.

 

Which is why I've asked for an image of the pump on her engine. I also messaged the OP to make him aware of the request.

Edited February 4 by Eeyore

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Eeyore said:

 

SO HOW DOES THIS ENGINE RUN WITH THE SOLENOID DISCONNECTED?

 

 

 

I did say that several days ag but no one commented and I guess only the OP actually knows how it all tied together 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

“SO HOW DOES THIS ENGINE RUN WITH THE SOLENOID DISCONNECTED?”

 Well it seams to of been like that for a couple of years since he bought the boat.

 

 

One answer may be because the stop lever seems to have a return spring on it, so it returns to the run position, but that seems contrary to the wiring diagram with all those live feeds. Basically, we won't know unless we can get a look inside the solenoid.

[Eeyore]

31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I did say that several days ag but no one commented and I guess only the OP actually knows how it all tied together 

Apologies, I refer you to my earlier Specsaver comment 🙄

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

One answer may be because the stop lever seems to have a return spring on it, so it returns to the run position, but that seems contrary to the wiring diagram with all those live feeds. Basically, we won't know unless we can get a look inside the solenoid.

 We need a pic of a running engine with the solenoid cable fitted👍

Edited February 4 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Run position on both pics? the solenoid looked like it was cable pull, so when connected it would go through the hole at the bottom of the  leaver secured by the bolt?

 We need a pic of a running engine with the solenoid cable fitted👍

 

Both pumps have what looks like the tail of a stop spring wrapped around the same side of the lever, so the spring can only push the lever in a clockwise direction

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Both pumps have what looks like the tail of a stop spring wrapped around the same side of the lever, so the spring can only push the lever in a clockwise direction

Yes, jus edited, as I say we need a pic of the solenoid cable fitted.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Both images seem to show the end of what is probably a return spring wrapped around the lever on the right of the pumps, that I take to be the stop control, because the lever on the left has maximum and idle stop screws by it. However, that rather shoots my suspicion that it is an energised to run solenoid, and that seems contrary to the wiring diagrams.

 

The lower image seems to show that it has a control cable fitted to it, so perhaps that is holding against the spring.

Would you say the stop leaver is to the right, painted yellow top to identify stop/diesel cut off? So when solenoid energised it pulls from right to left, so green pic shows non-running engine with solenoid cable connected?

[Tony Brooks]

I would say PUSH from right to left

 

Yes, that is how I read the images, EXCEPT it would imply a rigid solenoid rod to hold it is run, but the online images I have seen for the solenoid makes it look like a cable, so I await further information if we ever get any.

Edited February 4 by Tony Brooks

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would say PUSH from right to left

 

Yes, that is how I read the images, EXCEPT it would imply a rigid solenoid rod to hold it is run, but the online images I have seen for the solenoid makes it look like a cable, so I await further information if we ever get any.

It looked like a cable, looking at the green photo I would say that is the stop/key out position as you wouldn’t take a photo of a running engine for reference? If you look at the OPs original photo it looks like the black solenoid box he talks about would be to the left on the green photo so pulling to stop then releasing leaver to right when running?