New boat mooring clarification

[StuartHannam]

Looking for advice and guidance as will be purchasing a used boat in few months likely size/make will be 68ft tug or 52 ft Dutch barge type. 
Live in Essex/Suffolk border but so far just about every marina and boatyard can’t accommodate us as residential liveaboard.  
Need to remain in Brightlingsea area due to work for next few years but then will consider options to move boat north. 
Is continuous cruising an option if can remain in one place (not on canals due to size etc) and be on the fringe of a marina?  Obviously it’s the inconvenience of small boat commute to the shore/harbour until a residential berth becomes available somewhere, but I just can’t get a direct answer from same marina boatyards, it’s just a straight’we don’t do residential or nothing available’ 

Help and advise welcome. 

[Mike Tee]

The majority of people ‘residential’ on boats are on a normal leisure mooring and supply an accommodation address (friends, family), stay on board long term and basically keep their heads down. No security of tenure, upset the marina and you are out with no recourse . Even C&RT leisure moorings are used like this, supply a postal address and away you go.

You need to go in person, talk to the marina, and kind of ask ‘how long can I stay aboard’ nudge nudge etc.

[Tony Brooks]

36 minutes ago, StuartHannam said:

I just can’t get a direct answer from same marina boatyards, it’s just a straight’we don’t do residential or nothing available’ 

 

There are planning and financial considerations if a marina/boatyard wants to let proper residential moorings and get one antisocial moorer that you can't or is expensive to get rid of, and that explains the "we don't do residential".

 

You sound as if you do not yet have a specific boat in mind, so probably can't give the marina the dimensions, time scales, or moving in dates. That can  easily make you look like a tyre kicker, so they won't put much effort onto helping you.

 

Do what Mike says, visit personally, and talk to the operators.

 

It seems you will have to remain tidal unless the Chelmer Navigation has moorings, so the YBW Forum might be a better place to ask.

 

PS I have seen a narrowboat tied up on the Brightlingsea foreshore and it looked like a livaboard.

[Peanut]

Better yet, talk to other boaters in a marina where you might like to be, and get the low down, before you approach the marina. Even then, if you do ask, you may get the same response, they too are flying below the radar, so won't admit if they do.  It is no good turning up with a wreck of a boat and hoping to be welcome with open arms. Very few marinas have residential moorings, they will mostly be taken by someone who got there before you.

There is a lot of water around Brightlingsea, so search around a 20 to 30-mile radius, to see what is available.

 

[StuartHannam]

Thanks for the comments it’s appreciated. We are watching two boats so it’s a bit of a juggling act as we won’t be in a position to purchase until house is sold and then depends if still available, but am doing the legwork now to find a mooring. 
i have approached in person a few surrounding places and joined a few waiting lists but realistically it’s going to be a wait or fortune. 
in the meantime any advice on a swinging mooring as I am willing to go to those if it they are a next best alternative to a mooring?  Are they all generally live aboard as long as you are self sufficient etc?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, StuartHannam said:

Thanks for the comments it’s appreciated. We are watching two boats so it’s a bit of a juggling act as we won’t be in a position to purchase until house is sold and then depends if still available, but am doing the legwork now to find a mooring. 
i have approached in person a few surrounding places and joined a few waiting lists but realistically it’s going to be a wait or fortune. 
in the meantime any advice on a swinging mooring as I am willing to go to those if it they are a next best alternative to a mooring?  Are they all generally live aboard as long as you are self sufficient etc?

 

Be aware that this is called CANAL WORLD forum, so is mainly inhabited by inland cruising enthusiasts. Some will have tidal experience, but most don't. That is why I suggested that you would do better on a forum like YBW. https://forums.ybw.com/

[Bee]

Generally speaking the default position for anything even slightly out of the ordinary is `NO.` To live on a boat often requires planning permission and satisfying more legislation than is humanly possible. If you tie to the bank or pontoon or some sort of marina mooring you will nearly always be told `No`.  In my experience, it is best not to ask in the first place. If you can cope with living on a swinging mooring there is every chance nobody will bother you. In your position I think that is what I would do and then once you are part of that community it is surprising how often more convenient moorings turn up.  It is your boat after all and how much time you spend on it is nobody else`s business . Good luck, it can be a bit difficult to start with.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, StuartHannam said:

in the meantime any advice on a swinging mooring as I am willing to go to those if it they are a next best alternative to a mooring?

 

Are you going to be working on the boat, or taking the tender everyday to shore, off to work and back to the boat ?
What are your plans ?

 

Don't even think about without thinking about how you are using the boat - you need somewhere to empty the toilet - no chucking it overboard.

You need somewhere to go (regulary) to re fill the water tank.

When the wind blows and the tides are a bit strong you'll regret it.

You need some milk, you have to get the tender out row to the shore go and fetch some milk and make the return journey.

 

It seems idyllic but after a few months I found it a nightmare.

I don't mind the odd night at anchor but your boat needs to be properly equipped.

 

 

 

[StuartHannam]

Yes I will be off to work each morning and back in afternoon while my wife will be online working from the boat. Not our first option being honest but we want to leave our terraced home/noisy neighbourhood and enjoy a boating lifestyle as soon as we sell our house so it’s an extremely difficult situation but I won’t stop trying. 
It won’t be a sail up and anchor thing though as I intend to get permission from the marina boatyard in order to use their facility and expect to pay for whatever type of mooring we can get. 

[Peanut]

I do have some reservations about a novice putting a narrow boat on a swinging mooring. By their nature, they are tidal, often exposed in some conditions, and you need good mooring tackle.  The boat could easily be side on to wind and tide in lumpy water, which wouldn't be much fun.  There may be insurance implications, and transfer to shore in winter perilous. You might find a fore and aft mooring with pontoon access, which would be a lot better and safer for both you and the boat.

You would need to have the mooring lifted and inspected once a year, which might be included in your mooring contract. Swinging moorings are perhaps better for lumpy water boats rather than inland ones.  I would think twice before taking one.

 

And Alan's boat is a lumpy water one.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Peanut
Alan's boat

[StuartHannam]

Thanks Peanut, wise advise which I am grateful for. Lots to consider. Exciting and daunting!

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, StuartHannam said:

Yes I will be off to work each morning and back in afternoon while my wife will be online working from the boat.

 

Please don't. I had exactly that.

 

I was off the boat and 'away' wife called me sick and needed to get to the Doctor, she had no way of getting off the boat.

 

Being on a swinging mooring means that you can be badly affected by winds and tides _ you can easily get sea-sick on a swinging mooring.

If the wind is "blowing a gale" and you cannot get off the boat, or it is not safe to take the tender - can you have the day off work ? alternatively if the weather is bad when you come home at night and cannor get back onto the boat, have you got somewhere to stay ?

 

I really suggest that you trying renting a boat and a swinging mooring and see how all these storms wer are having one after another WILL affect you.

[LadyG]

You won't be able to go to and fro  to your swinging mooring in  F9 gale as we had yesterday and again tomorrow. I did it for a few summer months, not without incident,  I'm an experienced sailor, and was reasonably fit at the time.

The other thing is that not all moorings are available all year round.

Not sure if OP is thinking about a tug style narrowboat rather than a tug, one being much more seaworthy than the other. NBs don't even have bow rollers or proper chain handling equipment.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

There are a number of problems with trying to put a narrowboat / Dutch Barge on a swinging mooring.

 

1) There will be rows of moorings, as the tide and wind changes ALL boats react in a similar way so it is like a ballet swinging around the mooring buoys. Coastal boats are typically GRP cruiser / sailing style and have a keel. The space between the buoys is typically similar to the boat length (about 40-50 feet) but the boats are always moving in the same direction so you never get two boats 'between' the buoys and collisions. A steel flat bottomed boat will be controlled by the wind and not the tides so it could be that with the wind blowing in one direction and the tide going the other way you could hit another boat.

 

2) If you have a 60 foot boat you are unlikely to fit in between 'standard' mooring buoys

 

3) Moorings are rated by 'boat weight'. Our marina has a lot of "10 tonne" moorings and a very few "15 tonne" moorings for big boats. Your steel boat may well weigh 20 or 30 tonnes, on a standard mooring you could drag the mooring and cause chaos - alternatively you'd have to get the Harbour Authorities to put down a special 30 tonne mooring, that'll cost a lot.

 

4) In the winter all of the swinging mooring operators I know have to lift all of the boats out and onto a hard atanding.

My boat insurance actually says something to the effect "not to be left unattended offshore between October and March"

 

 

This is where we had a swinging mooring at Plymouth

 

 

 

What boats look like on a swinging mooring :

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, StuartHannam said:

Looking for advice and guidance ...

 

Is continuous cruising an option if can remain in one place (not on canals due to size etc) and be on the fringe of a marina?  Obviously it’s the inconvenience of small boat commute to the shore/harbour until a residential berth becomes available somewhere, 

 

 

It is interesting how you put that. 

 

Are you aware that 'continuous cruising' only exists on inland waterways where you need a licence/registration to use the boat? 

 

On tidal water there is no such thing as 'continuous cruising'. It is also far less practical due to the problem of where to put the Boat. Tides go up and down. 

 

I'm sure it can be done but it doesn't look like a wise move for someone whose aim and preference is to be on a mooring with services. 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by magnetman

[Tony Brooks]

Like I said, the only canal even remotely close is the Chelmer navigation and that is run by the IWA so probably has very different rules to the rest of the canal system.  As far as I know, and I am happy to corrected, all the rivers in the area you specify are tidal, so that brings a whole load more problems. You just might find a mud berth with jetty, but I bet they are all taken and some only seem accessible on spring tides.

[StuartHannam]

Thank you for all the comments and guidance, it’s a learning curve for us. I only use terms I have read and it’s something written regarding the continuous cruising on EA waterways in relation to the equivalent on a canal, so am happy to be corrected. I have trawled numerous websites and information for the last several weeks and I have gained a lot from everyone’s experience on here this evening. Remember, there was a time that everyone was a beginning in their first boat. Kind regards and keep the advice coming. If anyone knows of a residential mooring other than canals, please let me know. The search continues!

[magnetman]

I believe that some town councils let tidal berths as moorings for houseboats with services. There are a few of these types of moorings on the waterfront at Burnham on Crouch. Also at Colchester. I don't know for a fact they are council run but I am reasonably confident that they are.

 

These are up and down moorings where the boat will be on the mud half the time. 

 

I think it might be worthwhile investigating council owned bankside property on tidal rivers in your chosen area. Of course there is also the general problem of councils not necessarily having powers to control moorings in their byelaws so in some cases these can be a case of people pulling a fast one knowing the council will take a while to catch up. 

 

I imagine there is probably a waiting list for this sort of thing but I'd say it is worth looking into. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

I wonder if you really grasp the difference between mooring on tidal and non-tidal waters. I also wonder if you grasp how much of the navigable river system in the area you specify is, in fact, tidal. The EA are unlikely to be the navigation authority for tidal rivers, most likely the local harbour board. I think the size of boats you mention would rule out the Broads, but, subject to draft and air draft might be OK on the Nene or Great Ouse. Local knowledge needde to confirm.

[GUMPY]

You will struggle with a boat that size and cost will be exhorbitant. A few places spring to mind that you might and I stress it's a big  might get a mooring.

Battlesbridge at the head of the River Crouch.

Hythe Quay Maldon 

Outside Heybridge Basin

these are the only places I know that have large craft on their moorings.

There are others but I suspect you will have to wait for someone to die before you get even close to getting a mooring.

 

[StuartHannam]

Thanks everyone for your insight. Very useful and helpful. Best wishes. 

[Graham Davis]

Don't know about now, but there was a narrow boat on a drying mooring by the Mill at Woodbridge, Suffolk a couple of years ago.

[StuartHannam]

I will investigate. Thanks 

[Crewcut]

Most coastal marinas will have few spaces for boats of 68ft & they'll be knocking on for £10k p.a. in some. 52ft more likely but that's still a big boat. Most coastal marinas used to have at least a few quiet liveaboards but it's got harder to do, some have thrown people out & will not "tolerate" any liveaboards whatsoever. Others still turn a blind eye but do not mention the "L" word or they'll just say no. The odd one do an "extended use" contract where you pay more & can stay for up to 12 weeks at a time for up to 48 weeks of the year - effectively liveaboard but you have to have a "home address". You cannot live on a swinging mooring in the UK it's not practical or feasible as Alan has already explained, unless you are a serious masochist. So I would suggest look for something a bit smaller, 39' - 45' (12-14m) would be good, more berths available. Post on the YBW liveaboard forum for suggestions where you might be able to live on under the radar. There is one place on the Medway at Port Werburgh where you might be able to get a residential mooring for a big old tug boat but presumably that will be way too far from work. Best of luck it is not an easy thing to do in the UK I'm afraid...

 

Edit - And don't forget houses tend to go up in value, boats do not, spend all your cash from house sale now on a lovely boat, want to move back to land after 5 years & you can no longer afford to...

Edited December 11, 2023 by Crewcut

[StuartHannam]

Thanks, great advice very welcome.