Solid Fuel Not Getting Hot?

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Jennarasion said:

Is there something I'm doing wrong?

 

Another request for make/model of stove or a photo of the stove if you don't know.

 

Someone here will probably be able to identify the stove and advise on best settings.

 

If it's a Morso Squirrel with a top flue connection, the top of the baffle plate is notorious for partially blocking with soot and needs regular cleaning - importantly when the stove is cool and the fire is not burning!

[Jennarasion]

33 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The flue will likely need sweeping every 4 to 6 weeks if you are a full time liveaboard depending on what you are burning. Use a long brush (I use a cut off scaffold pole). Ideally the fire needs to be out when you do this. 

 

Sweep it from the outside. Make sure the stove doors and vents are closed when you do so. 

 

Laying a piece of newspaper on the grate can aid in the clean up process. 

 

If you have a baffle plate or backboiler, the crap from the flue will end up on top of it. You need to remove the crap from the top by either removing the baffle plate (if you have one) or reaching inside and scraping it off with tool/hand. Make sure the stove is not hot. 

Judging by the state that the previous owners left the stove in general, my guess is that this hasnt been done in a very long time! I do have a baffle though, so will need to investigate how to get it down

32 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

What sort of fuel are you using???

Logs, and I believe that the brand of coal is "Supertherm"

[magnetman]

Seems likely to be a flue problem..

 

Do you have a CO alarm? The best type have a digital display so you can see if there are any issues before an alarm state occurs. 

 

For example if you have a digital display CO monitor and it reads 10ppm you know you are not going to die but you also know there is a problem. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

48 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

I also have a few firebricks in there,

 

If you have filled the firebox with bricks - there may not be enough room to have a reasonable sized fire.

[Jennarasion]

32 minutes ago, bizzard said:

If everything others have said ie flue swept, ashpan not fullup, grate cleared of ash with the poker, then you probably need to put a lot more coal on, gaps in the coal in a mean thin fire bed allow the bottom air draught to whistle through the gaps in the coals and the fire will burn very low or more likely go out.

Ill try adding more coal, but then there doesn't leave a lot of space for the logs 🥲

27 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

What brand is the "coal"?  Different stoves and installations seem to prefer different types of smokeless fuel.  Mine likes Excel, others can't burn it at all.

 

Is it dry or wet?  If it's wet out of the bag you're having to use the heat to evaporate the water instead of heat the boat.

 

Do you store the next load inside the boat near the fire or outside?  If the dry "coals" are at 20 degrees or more they burn much hotter than if they're at -5 degrees because they don't need heating up as much first.  This is also especially relevant if they are stored wet - which they usually are when bagged to reduce the dust.

I keep all the fuel inside the boat, nothing has been wet when I've put it in. The marina stores it in a shed

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Another request for make/model of stove or a photo of the stove if you don't know.

 

Someone here will probably be able to identify the stove and advise on best settings.

 

If it's a Morso Squirrel with a top flue connection, the top of the baffle plate is notorious for partially blocking with soot and needs regular cleaning - importantly when the stove is cool and the fire is not burning!

If you mean the half moon shaped throat plate held in by two nuts, this should be removed for short flue pipes like on boats. Or it'll clog up something awful and block the flue off. Morso stove without back boiler.

[Jennarasion]

32 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Also if the air in the boat is cold then it can be counterproductive opening the bottom vent too much because the result is drawing cold air this reducing the temperature of the fire. 

 

 

The air immediately surrounding the stove is warm (with the door open), everywhere else is freezing

[Mike Tee]

Get talking to your neighbours and tell them you are struggling with your fire - I’m sure one of them will help out with advice and you might get lucky and find one with the same type of fire who can show you what is needed.

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you have filled the firebox with bricks - there may not be enough room to have a reasonable sized fire.

 

Slightly shocking but also a shrewd observation. 

 

The biggest enemy of a fire is cold things. Some people do try to reduce the size of the firebox due to having an idea that the thing is too big but in the event of it getting cold this can cause a negative outcome. 

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

If you mean the half moon shaped throat plate held in by two nuts, this should be removed for short flue pipes like on boats. Or it'll clog up something awful and block the flue off. Morso stove without back boiler.

I had a Villager Heron and also had a Villager Puffin (same fire different door style) and they both had a flat baffle plate just below the flue. It was removable and I removed them in both instances as the clag buildup in the flue dropped down and caused problems. 

 

Of course a properly operating flue won't get any of this clag but it is very common on sub optimal installations such as those found in canal boats. 

[Peanut]

Unfortunately, I have found that you have to pay to keep yourself warm on a boat, you either burn, wood, coal, oil or electricity, and a shed load of money. It's a real nuisance.

[Jennarasion]

34 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The door open and fire bricks are a bit of a concern. 

 

Have you got a pic of your setup? 

Excuse the ash on the floor, but this is it currently. A log has just turned into embers after burning for around an hour, and coal below it. Ashtray is virtually empty. I dont think there is much ash I can poke through the grate at the moment.

 

See also the temperature on my fans, and my flue (which really might be the cause as it doesnt seem perfectly sealed, and rain falls through as well)

[booke23]

7 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

Logs, and I believe that the brand of coal is "Supertherm"

 

Last winter I tried 11 different types of coal to see if there was a really good one. All were acceptable except one......Supertherm. The notes I wrote on it last year went like this: 

 

"Supertherm - Awful. Low heat, Low Anthracite content, high smoke and filth. High sulphur. Needs regular restoking to maintain heat"

 

Having said that, it does sound like your stove needs a good clean out as even Supertherm should put you out of the room with heat on a narrowboat. But I'd get some different coal when you do get it cleaned........any other smokeless coal would be better. 

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Peanut said:

Unfortunately, I have found that you have to pay to keep yourself warm on a boat, you either burn, wood, coal, oil or electricity, and a shed load of money. It's a real nuisance.

Free wood would be good. 

[Jennarasion]

35 minutes ago, magnetman said:

A lot of fires work better when really hot. 

 

 

I'm getting some secondary burn on the wood. 

Being miserly with fuel is not always sensible but also be careful not to get it too hot. 

 

It is quite cold tonight outside. 

Flues are also a critical component. If the flue is unwilling to heat up properly then the fire is unlikely to get going well. 

 

Excessively long external flue terminals can cause issues in this regard. 

I believe the flue extends about a forearms length above the boat, would that bee too long? It doesnt stand out from any of the other boats here

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

Excuse the ash on the floor, but this is it currently. A log has just turned into embers after burning for around an hour, and coal below it. Ashtray is virtually empty. I dont think there is much ash I can poke through the grate at the moment.

 

See also the temperature on my fans, and my flue (which really might be the cause as it doesnt seem perfectly sealed, and rain falls through as well)

Flue is bad. 

[bizzard]

22 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

Judging by the state that the previous owners left the stove in general, my guess is that this hasnt been done in a very long time! I do have a baffle though, so will need to investigate how to get it down

Logs, and I believe that the brand of coal is "Supertherm"

Is it a Morso stove with the half moon shaped throat baffle plate, if so remove it.  Read my other post about it Ok not a Morso

Edited December 1, 2023 by bizzard

[magnetman]

 

Needs to be straight. Have you got a CO alarm with a digital readout? 

 

If not then please get one. 

 

 

[Jennarasion]

33 minutes ago, dmr said:

Is the boat well insulated? Our insulation is not that good and with these low temperatures its a struggle to get the boat really warm, but it is a big boat 🙂

A small wooden log on top of the coal will give a bit of extra heat.

Can you post a good photo of the coal burning in your stove?  I would expect a good orange glow under all the coal, and with full air a few little flames.

The insulation is horrid, leaky gunwhales, ceiling, etc (with the dehumidifier running 24/7). Im not sure what it is specifically though

35 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Another thought is that if there is a build up of ash below and behind the ash pan, it may move the ashpan further forward and block the vent. Remove the pan and clean out ash with a coal shovel. Replace pan. 

Ill try to shovel out all the ash in the morning when it cools down a bit

15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Seems likely to be a flue problem..

 

Do you have a CO alarm? The best type have a digital display so you can see if there are any issues before an alarm state occurs. 

 

For example if you have a digital display CO monitor and it reads 10ppm you know you are not going to die but you also know there is a problem. 

 

 

I do not! The previously owners dismantled it i think, I'll look into a digital one because CO2 poisoning is not on my list of ways I want to go out

[bizzard]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Free wood would be good. 

Or peanut shells.

[Jennarasion]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you have filled the firebox with bricks - there may not be enough room to have a reasonable sized fire.

I have around 2.5 bricks in there currently, just around the perimeter of the space 🤔 i can get a decent amount of coals in there imo

[magnetman]

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

The insulation is horrid, leaky gunwhales, ceiling, etc (with the dehumidifier running 24/7). Im not sure what it is specifically though

Ill try to shovel out all the ash in the morning when it cools down a bit

I do not! The previously owners dismantled it i think, I'll look into a digital one because CO2 poisoning is not on my list of ways I want to go out

It is CO not CO2. 

 

The ones I use are Fireangel CO9D. 

 

They do work and can give advance warning by displaying a low figure before the alarm state. 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Or peanut shells.

 

Yes. Olive stones also good. 

[Peanut]

Have you tried the fire without the bricks?

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

this is it currently. A log has just turned into embers after burning for around an hour, and coal below it. Ashtray is virtually empty. I dont think there is much ash I can poke through the grate at the moment

 

For tonight, try riddling as much of the coal dust and ash as you can through the grate to allow more bottom air into the fire.  Also (although it sounds daft) close the top vent all the way to the minus position and fully open the bottom vent on the door.  This should allow more air flow directly through the coals where it needs to be.

 

Tomorrow, when it's cool, remove the angled firebricks and try again with about three times as much supertherm on there once the fire is burning properly.  The angled bricks trick works well in spring and autumn to reduce fuel use but won't help when it's this cold outside.

 

Also see if one of your neighbours will lend you a shovelful of something other than supertherm - I've used it many times, but I once got an awful batch that would barely burn.

[Jennarasion]

11 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Last winter I tried 11 different types of coal to see if there was a really good one. All were acceptable except one......Supertherm. The notes I wrote on it last year went like this: 

 

"Supertherm - Awful. Low heat, Low Anthracite content, high smoke and filth. High sulphur. Needs regular restoking to maintain heat"

 

Having said that, it does sound like your stove needs a good clean out as even Supertherm should put you out of the room with heat on a narrowboat. But I'd get some different coal when you do get it cleaned........any other smokeless coal would be better. 

Supertherm is what they stock here, I'll look into other suppliers as well. Its not worth the convince it seems 😂

6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Or peanut shells.

5 guys here I come 😂

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, Jennarasion said:

 

I do not! The previously owners dismantled it i think, I'll look into a digital one because CO2 poisoning is not on my list of ways I want to go out

Please get one (or more) ASAP. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by rusty69