My first narrowboat for continuous cruising What to buy?

[Tony1]

29 minutes ago, StevieN said:

I see those old style 'twin tubs' seem to be popular rather than a huge power hungry and space hogging washing machine and if there's only one person on board probably a handy thing to have.

 

The glowing youtube reviews I watched failed to mention that some of those small/portable washing machines do not spin very well at all. In fact I can do a better job by hand wringing my clothes after a wash, so I would advise buyers not to have high expectations about that aspect.   

On a small boat I'd be tempted to use a collapsible bucket or large bowl to wash clothes, and save some storage space.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

The glowing youtube reviews I watched failed to mention that some of those small/portable washing machines do not spin very well at all. In fact I can do a better job by hand wringing my clothes after a wash, so I would advise buyers not to have high expectations about that aspect.   

 

We have a twin tub on both boats and find they actually get the clothes both cleaner AND dryer than the Automatic at home.

Others have reported similar.

 

You need a bit of 'manual intervention' unlike an Auto, but its worthwhile for the water and leccy savings.

[Arthur Marshall]

I was quite happy for two years on a forty footer with no washing machine, microwave or any other power hungry gubbins. Still am, for that matter in the months I cruise.

If one has a house to go back to, there seems little point in kitting a boat out like a cottage. Minimalism is not only simpler, there's a lot less to go wrong.

The other point worth thinking on is that if you're going to cruise six months and park the rest, you'd be better off with a permanent cheap mooring that you know will be there when you need it, and where you want it, rather than spending the last six weeks of your cruise trying to find one, and then getting to it.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Arthur Marshall

[Tony1]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We have a twin tub on both boats and find they actually get the clothes both cleaner AND dryer than the Automatic at home.

Others have reported similar.

 

You need a bit of 'manual intervention' unlike an Auto, but its worthwhile for the water and leccy savings.

 

Are yours this type?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Display4top-Electric-Portable-Compact-Capacity/dp/B078QJMSVC/ref=sr_1_3?crid=P8S8S3OLY831&keywords=portable%2Bwashing%2Bmachine&qid=1700590993&sprefix=portable%2Bwashing%2B%2Caps%2C885&sr=8-3&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.23648568-4ba5-49f2-9aa6-31ae75f1e9cd&th=1

 

I have the single tub type, and nothing I've done has made it spin clothes even half decently, although the wash is ok. 

 

I'm sorry, but it's hard for me to imagine that a flimsy, thin plastic product with a very low power motor can spin clothes more effectively than a solidly-built, full sized domestic machine with far more sophisticated mechanicals and load-balancing functions. 

Do you have a link to the ones you have? If they really are that good I will be having a look at them myself.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Are yours this type?

 

Similar but that looks flimsy.

 

From memory (its certainly the same colours !) but a couple or four years ago they were about £75.

 

Buy Leisurewize Twin Tub Washing Machine | Caravanning | Argos

 

Certainly keeps on top of the washing (up to Jeans size / weight) and 'smalls' but it wouldn't cope with a big blanket

[Didne]

Simple camper-van solution to doing the laundry … get a sturdy one of those clip-up waterproof dry bags … the sort used for canoeing and paddle boarding … they can keep water in just as well as they can keep water out … put your washing powder and hot water and your dirty clothes in it … then seal it shut and leave it in the most vibrating spot while you’re on the move … the vibrations will agitate the water and by the time you get where you’re going your clothes have had a good wash … all you need do then is rinse them out (by the same method if you want to) … wring dry, and hang up .… simples … xxx

 

something like this 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=dry+bag+extra+large+boat&crid=3HRNGWJEE5Z9J&sprefix=dry+bag+extra+large+boat%2Caps%2C177&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

 

 

[Peanut]

There is an alternative to a full on washing machine, that I have seen recommended.  You do your wash manually, and then use a spin dryer. The dryer uses a fraction of the energy of a washing machine, and spins the clothes better.  The one recommender was "White Knight," no connection here, of course.  I either use my daughter's machine, or a kind broad-beam owner lets me use theirs, but I have now bought an air dryer to dry clothes on these dreary days.

[Tony1]

 

One thing I think worth mentioning is that no matter how suitable you think the boat is at first, there always seem to be a few things you want to change or upgrade (or to repair) within the first few months, and a few of those might be expensive. So keep at least five thousand in reserve for that sort of stuff. 

E.g. if the boat doesnt have solar panels, you will want to add at least 500 watts, and preferably 1000 watts. That means you will have all the electricity you need for your cruising months, without having to run the engine to generate power (although you may still want to run the engine to heat up the water). 

A lot of the solutions to these questions will depend on your cruising pattern, and so it might help if you can give us some idea how many days each week you would normally cruise?

Some people cruise almost every day, some cruise once or twice a week, and some cruise the minimum required, which is once every two weeks. 

The significance of this is that it indicates how often you will be getting the engine to recharge your batteries. For example, if you expect to be cruising on most days, then you will not need much solar power, because all your charging will be done from running the engine to cruise. 

If you like to stay in one place for a week, then maybe solar panels will be more useful- although you still need a way of heating water.

I can say that if you have 1000 watts of solar panels, that will give you enough power that you can run your fridge etc, but you can also heat a tank of water up to washing temperature between say May and the end of August, except on the really cloudy days.

If you have diesel CH, that has a side benefit of heating the water tank, so on those chilly Autumn mornings when you want a to take the chill out of the boat by running the CH, you'll also have hot water (and actually, diesel CH might be a good system to consider installing if you buy a GRP- but it wont be cheap). 

But many owners of smaller boats use generators to create electricity, so that is also an option- although I dont think you'll get hot water from a genny- and you will need some hot water. 

If you are prepared to consider GRP boats, you'll need to bear in mind that the typical outboard motor is not set up for generating power to charge batteries, so some work might be needed to upgrade that. Although some GRPs do have gas-fired instant hot water systems, which is great.  

 

So you can see that there are no simple answers to the questions really- and the answers that best suit you will depend on your pattern of cruising. 

But in my opinion there is a bottom line to it all, which is this- to live comfortably you will need to generate around 100Ah of power each day, and 20-30 litres of hot-ish water every day or two, to allow you to stay at least tolerably clean.  The optimum way to obtain those things will depend a lot on your cruising pattern and the type of boat you have. 

E.g. If I was on a GRP, I'd be looking at installing an instant hot water heater powered by gas, and I'd try to use that to heat up some bathing water.   

But on a narrowboat, I'd have a few other options. I could use solar panels for that job- at least for 6 or 7 months of the year (and aided by lithium batteries). But if the batteries are too expensive or complicated, you can just run the engine for an hour each day, and that will give you hot water and some charge for the batteries. 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Tony1

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

The glowing youtube reviews I watched failed to mention that some of those small/portable washing machines do not spin very well at all. In fact I can do a better job by hand wringing my clothes after a wash, so I would advise buyers not to have high expectations about that aspect.   

On a small boat I'd be tempted to use a collapsible bucket or large bowl to wash clothes, and save some storage space.

 

 

The one we have spins the clothes dryer than the automatic washing machine at home.

 

The only downside to the small twin tubs is that the operator has to perform the "automatic" functions.

[Tony1]

Just now, cuthound said:

 

The one we have spins the clothes dryer than the automatic washing machine at home.

 

The only downside to the small twin tubs is that the operator has to perform the "automatic" functions.

 

Do you have a link? I'd love to get hold of a small washer that can do a decent spin. 

Trying to hand-wring a pair of trousers is a right pain. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Didne said:

Simple camper-van solution to doing the laundry … get a sturdy one of those clip-up waterproof dry bags … the sort used for canoeing and paddle boarding … they can keep water in just as well as they can keep water out … put your washing powder and hot water and your dirty clothes in it … then seal it shut and leave it in the most vibrating spot while you’re on the move … the vibrations will agitate the water and by the time you get where you’re going your clothes have had a good wash … all you need do then is rinse them out (by the same method if you want to) … wring dry, and hang up .… simples … xxx

 

something like this 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=dry+bag+extra+large+boat&crid=3HRNGWJEE5Z9J&sprefix=dry+bag+extra+large+boat%2Caps%2C177&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

 

 

Occasionally I’ll put some washing in the bath to soak and with a bit of extra effort banging about in locks it does the trick,

 

Where did the idea come from to choose a boat based on it having a washing machine? 🤣

 

 

 

[Tony1]

42 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

Where did the idea come from to choose a boat based on it having a washing machine? 🤣

 

 

I can see it sounds a bit daft when you put it like that, but it wasn't simply the usage of a washing machine that was the key thing.

I think the poster was making the point that if there was a washing machine installed, it was an indicator that the boat was quite likely to have been used as a liveaboard, and so all the other stuff for liveaboard life would be set up and capable. 

But having said all that, I've found so far that liveaboards prioritise all sorts of different things on their boats. My priority is lots of solar and lithium batteries, and of course my ferret-throttling chamber.  

Other people think fridges are not necessary in Winter, so they presumably store their ferrets in the cratch prior to cooking. 

Other people require an alternator the size of Wales. 

Some very strange folk out there if you ask me. 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Tony1

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I think I’d start by looking for a good looking boat, solid hull with a reliable engine.

50’ max, would keeps costs down,

and work from there,

 

🤷‍♀️

[matty40s]

It amazes me how many boats that have successfully lasted the last 10-30 years of boating appear on YouTube in brokerage videos and 50% of the comments are " cant believe its not got solar panels" or " I would ask for a reduction in price due to no solar".

 

Etc...

 

[Arthur Marshall]

20 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It amazes me how many boats that have successfully lasted the last 10-30 years of boating appear on YouTube in brokerage videos and 50% of the comments are " cant believe its not got solar panels" or " I would ask for a reduction in price due to no solar".

 

Etc...

 

Indeed. I lived on for a few years with the old tub's single domestic battery and have never seen the need to add to it. When I bought it, it only had one battery which did both domestic and starter, but I very soon found out why I needed another one for each.

The more stuff you have, the more goes wrong, and the more it costs to put it right.

[magnetman]

When you think about it the back cabins in old narrow boats are really quite good. 

 

Obviously perfection is not possible other than perhaps with machine learning but there is no escaping from the fact that a back cabin is the pinnacle of narrow boat accomodation success.

 

It really is a clever arrangement if you are not very tall or have a butty or an electric boat or hydraulic drive and you don't mind not washing much. 

 

One could put the router in the ticket drawer. 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One could put the router in the ticket drawer. 

 

A terrible eye deer. Where would you put the tickets?

 

 

[magnetman]

In the fire. 

[The Black Jack]

19 hours ago, magnetman said:

Socks can last more than a day.

 

Also they are cheap in supermarkets.

 

 

Given the planet destroying nature of washing machines and forced drying apparatus and the cost of launderettes there is a reasonable argument for viewing underwear as consumable products.

 

 

You eat your underwear? 

[cuthound]

14 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Do you have a link? I'd love to get hold of a small washer that can do a decent spin. 

Trying to hand-wring a pair of trousers is a right pain. 

 

 

 

This is similar to mine.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Costway-Washing-Machine-Portable-Compact/dp/B071JBBM6G/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=14U08NOQUM9U1&keywords=twin+tub+washing+machines+uk&qid=1700650006&sprefix=%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1

[system 4-50]

I have a boat for sale!  £80k!  With washing machine!  A discount of £10k available to suitable discerning buyers owing to no hull, no engine, and no interior.   A low-maintenance special!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Perhaps given enough washing machines one could raft them together to create a boat of any length and breadth?

[BilgePump]

14 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

Perhaps given enough washing machines one could raft them together to create a boat of any length and breadth?

They even come with a concrete block in the bottom for the correct amount of ballast

[enigmatic]

The easiest way to establish whether a boat is suitable for continuous cruising is to buy a boat from someone who's already done it.

Like mine which has been all over in the last three years (within your budget, if you'd like to send me a message, will probably go to a broker at the weekend otherwise). Other boats which have been continuously cruised also exist! 

 

- 40 feet or 57 feet is really a matter of personal taste. I know one guy that prefers his 40 foot Aintree Beetle to his house; I much prefer having a bit more space to spread myself around, especially when the weather is not inviting me to go outside. Having a dinette to eat at and space for a sofa and a bit of outside space is good. Smaller boats cost less and are marginally cheaper to license and marginally easier to find moorings in crowded areas and places to turn the boat around, but larger narrowboats really aren't any more difficult to physically handle. All narrow boats are very very heavy, and all of them sit in water, which means that pulling them in isn't actually that hard work. Above 57' the Pennine canals become more difficult or impossible

 

- Engine rooms with shiny vintage engines and traditional style back cabins are definitely personal taste!

 

- I don't think washing machines are a good indication of being a suitable boat for continuous cruising at all. Lots of us manage with twin tubs, and proper washing machines are often fitted to boats that spend all the time attached to landlines and may not even work properly on batteries/inverter

 

- you might be able to get away with a boat without a stove (I don't have mine on between April and October) but they are useful things to have, and things future buyers look at. You might actually use a diesel webasto/eberspacher heating system with radiators more if you get a boat with both though.

 

- buying a "cheap boat" as a first boat isn't a good idea, unless you know why it's cheap. Lots of them are cheap because they need expensive work done or are difficult to sell, and if you stick to the plan to sell a good secondhand boat a couple of years after buying it, you'll probably get your money back anyway.

 

 

15 hours ago, matty40s said:

It amazes me how many boats that have successfully lasted the last 10-30 years of boating appear on YouTube in brokerage videos and 50% of the comments are " cant believe its not got solar panels" or " I would ask for a reduction in price due to no solar".

 

Etc...

To be fair solar panels are a significant omission on a boat spends most of its time away from moorings now that they're cheap and easy to fit, unless you plan on running your engine every day in summer anyway. Just most people don't realise they're cheap and easy to fit...

 

18 hours ago, Didne said:

Simple camper-van solution to doing the laundry … get a sturdy one of those clip-up waterproof dry bags … the sort used for canoeing and paddle boarding … they can keep water in just as well as they can keep water out … put your washing powder and hot water and your dirty clothes in it … then seal it shut and leave it in the most vibrating spot while you’re on the move … the vibrations will agitate the water and by the time you get where you’re going your clothes have had a good wash … all you need do then is rinse them out (by the same method if you want to) … wring dry, and hang up .… simples … xxx

 

something like this 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=dry+bag+extra+large+boat&crid=3HRNGWJEE5Z9J&sprefix=dry+bag+extra+large+boat%2Caps%2C177&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

I love this idea, but the tricky bit is always getting them dry again. Maybe I could replace my engine flywheel with a tub!

 

For the record, the spin dryer on twin tubs is very good, but only because you can only fit a handful of clothes in at any one time

 

 

[Tantarin]

18 hours ago, Tony1 said:

E.g. if the boat doesnt have solar panels, you will want to add at least 500 watts, and preferably 1000 watts. That means you will have all the electricity you need for your cruising months, without having to run the engine to generate power (although you may still want to run the engine to heat up the water). 

A lot of the solutions to these questions will depend on your cruising pattern, and so it might help if you can give us some idea how many days each week you would normally cruise?

Some people cruise almost every day, some cruise once or twice a week, and some cruise the minimum required, which is once every two weeks. 

The significance of this is that it indicates how often you will be getting the engine to recharge your batteries. For example, if you expect to be cruising on most days, then you will not need much solar power, because all your charging will be done from running the engine to cruise. 

If you like to stay in one place for a week, then maybe solar panels will be more useful- although you still need a way of heating water.

I can say that if you have 1000 watts of solar panels, that will give you enough power that you can run your fridge etc, but you can also heat a tank of water up to washing temperature between say May and the end of August, except on the really cloudy days.

If you have diesel CH, that has a side benefit of heating the water tank, so on those chilly Autumn mornings when you want a to take the chill out of the boat by running the CH, you'll also have hot water

thank you all for your responses. I can see that more info from me on my expected use is needed for you to guide me on what might suit me:

I'm 66 but fit & active at present. I'd welcome the exercise associated with narrowboating to keep my body working.

I don't have a house in the UK. I can store a small amount of stuff in the garages of family & I have  already as I'm currently living abroad. I will skulk off to Thailand each November to avoid the dismal UK winters & return in the Spring to see the leaves come out.

I would expect to stay at pleasant  moorings for a week or more, perhaps for the full 2 weeks; I want to explore the nicer bits of canals & rivers but I'm not on a mission.

I'm persuaded by comments that 50ft is likely to be quite long enough for me to liveaboard & I'd choose that size if it's no impediment to later resale. I won't be going for a fibreglass cruiser as I think it might be too fragile on canals.

I quite like the idea of a solid fuel stove as it seems cosy, although I recognise it creates dust.

I don't think I care about a washing machine;  I think I'd like a quick shower every other day with a good wash on alternate days

I don't imagine I'll have visitors staying  with me; I'll be fairly solitary although hoping to meet nice people along the way.

I'm expecting this boat to be sold after 2 years by which time I'll have a much better idea whether I want a new boat or a new retirement idea. Accordingly, I want it to command a ready sale. I know I'll leave it better than I found it.

£60k is all I can afford but  I've no real idea whether it will take all that amount to buy a decent boat that will readily resell in 2 years; I don't really have any clue what makes a boat a £40k boat and what extra desirable features make a £60k boat. I definitely don't want to be seduced into paying £60k for a boat that I later find is really a £40k boat & that's all I can reasonably achieve on resale.

 

Thank you all very much for your helpful guidance so far. I've enjoyed all the washing machine discussions although I didn't expect them