Li-0n, these look interesting

[rusty69]

This is what fogstar told me when I contacted them last year. Though it is possible, they have since changed their policy:

Quote

We understand the need to configure the BMS. Changing the settings will not invalidate the warranty - breaking the battery by changing the parameters may.

Quote

We're all about DIY - so if someone changes settings to fit in with their solar system or other lifepo4 batteries - we have no problem with it whatsoever. 

 

 

I suggest somebody actually asks them for a more up to date answer.

Edited September 25, 2023 by rusty69

[chevron]

 I told Fogstar the setting and the way I was fitting the battery and they were fine and gave me the password to make the changes. Customer services have been fantastic even replying to emails out of office hours. So far 460amp has been great.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, chevron said:

 I told Fogstar the setting and the way I was fitting the battery and they were fine and gave me the password to make the changes. Customer services have been fantastic even replying to emails out of office hours. So far 460amp has been great.

I get the impression all they request to give out the password is that you are not an absolute electrical numpty, and have at least some understanding of what changing the settings can do. 

 

You really can't blame them. The first thing that is likely to happen if someone changes a setting which subsequently knackers the cells is they will try and claim on the warranty. 

 

Since every man and his dog are now adopting lithium, it's probably fair to assume there are a large proportion of numpties out there.

[magnetman]

Surely if they give someone the password it would become common knowledge fast. 

 

Is the general idea to keep changing the password regularly? 

 

 

[IanD]

If they'd thought this through they'd have several levels of access with different passwords, like Sevcon (motor controllers) do -- the lowest level is for users and allows changing of setting to suit the application but which can't break the battery, then there's one for installers with a bit more access but also more need to know what you're doing, then there's the factory level where you can change absolutely anything.

Edited September 25, 2023 by IanD

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

If they'd thought this through they'd have several levels of access with different passwords, like Sevcon (motor controllers) do -- the lowest level is for users and allows changing of setting to suit the application but which can't break the battery, then there's one for installers with a bit more access but also more need to know what you're doing, then there's the factory level where you can change absolutely anything.

It's a JBD type BMS iirc. I'm not sure that particular BMS has that function. They couple the BMS with eve cells and stick them in a suitable case. Bit like that other bloke at lifebatteries. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by rusty69

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It's a JBD type BMS iirc. I'm not sure that particular BMS has that function. They couple the BMS with eve cells and stick them in a suitable case. Bit like that other bloke at lifebatteries. 

Very possibly it doesn't, but it's something that really should be done even for "drop-in" LFP batteries -- if they have external access/control (e.g. with a password) then it's trivial to put multi-level access in. And also log any higher-level accesses and changes made so if people do get in and break the battery Fogstar can tell this was done. Remote signalling/alarm is likely to become a compulsory feature for lithium on boats anyway, driven by insurance requirements, and once this is done it's not a sealed "black box" any more anyway.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Very possibly it doesn't, but it's something that really should be done even for "drop-in" LFP batteries -- if they have external access/control (e.g. with a password) then it's trivial to put multi-level access in. And also log any higher-level accesses and changes made so if people do get in and break the battery Fogstar can tell this was done. Remote signalling/alarm is likely to become a compulsory feature for lithium on boats anyway, driven by insurance requirements, and once this is done it's not a sealed "black box" any more anyway.

 

I think the problem is that JBD sell the BMS and obviously the end user needs to be able to configure it. They are probably not fussed that their end user is Fogstar whilst Fogstar's end user is the hapless boater. That is Fogstar's problem!

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

I think the problem is that JBD sell the BMS and obviously the end user needs to be able to configure it. They are probably not fussed that their end user is Fogstar whilst Fogstar's end user is the hapless boater. That is Fogstar's problem!

 

The JBD BMS is made in large numbers and sold at low prices, largely aimed at the cheap drop-in LFP market where cost matters more than quality and support/flexibility, and is correctly designed for this market.

 

For applications like (relatively large and expensive) battery banks in boats something better (and with better support/flexibility?) is really needed, but this would cost more money, and most boaters focus more on cost than quality... 😉

Edited September 25, 2023 by IanD

[nicknorman]

On 21/09/2023 at 09:52, GUMPY said:

What does the team think?

 

https://www.fogstar.co.uk/products/lithium-leisure-battery-fogstar-drift-105ah

105_SpecSheet_V.2_1.pdf 309.38 kB · 15 downloads

I've just been watching this, they do seem quite well put together...

 

 

[nicknorman]

I’ve ordered a Fogstar Drift 105 Ah for my caravan. Stock arriving in a couple of days apparently, but in the meantime I also ordered their 40A mains charger, which seemed quite cheap at £120. That has arrived already and I’ve connected it to some lead acid batteries to see how it behaves. It does have good voltage regulation (sends out 40A until the voltage is very close to 14.4v) and seems well made as far as one can tell. It does have a very noisy fan though, which runs all the time during charging at fixed speed regardless of charge current.

 

Hard to tell with lead acid but I get the feeling it will only stop charging when the battery BMS shuts it off, which is not ideal IMO. So it will be fine for my intended usage of charging from a generator, but it’s not the sort of thing one would want to leave permanently on for a boat connected to shore power.

[GUMPY]

I'm still trying to justify the cost just to save 15kg in weight by ditching a perfectly good LA battery.

I need to get the weight of the van down.

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

Use less energy. 

[nicknorman]

19 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I'm still trying to justify the cost just to save 15kg in weight by ditching a perfectly good LA battery.

I need to get the weight of the van down.

 

 

For me it is not about saving 15kg - my caravan never moves. It is about saving annoying generator running time in the 6 months of the year when my solar doesn't keep up with demand. Lead Acid batteries are just so useless - when you are used to Li. I have 4 perfectly good T105s, one pair in the caravan, one pair languishing in the garage. They still have about 75% capacity. I will need to dispose of them - yes a waste, on the other hand they are 9 years old now.

[magnetman]

interesting times when a battery is called a Fogstar Drift. 

 

 

[nicknorman]

19 minutes ago, magnetman said:

interesting times when a battery is called a Fogstar Drift. 

 

 

 

Would be interesting to know the origin of the name.

[TheBiscuits]

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I have 4 perfectly good T105s, one pair in the caravan, one pair languishing in the garage. They still have about 75% capacity. I will need to dispose of them

 

Flog them to the chap opposite me who was running his engine at 0330 yesterday...

[MtB]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

interesting times when a battery is called a Fogstar Drift. 

 

 

I have one of these. The battery is fine and good but the app to read the BMS is irritating. 

 

On my iPhone it keeps re-opening itself like a ghost after opening it the once. Even after manually closing it, the app it re-starts itself every few minutes. It also tries to read the BMS on the other LFP battery which is not a Fogstar.

 

 

[GUMPY]

On 09/10/2023 at 15:50, nicknorman said:

I’ve ordered a Fogstar Drift 105 Ah for my caravan. Stock arriving in a couple of days apparently, but in the meantime I also ordered their 40A mains charger, which seemed quite cheap at £120. That has arrived already

Any news on the batteries and their performance?

[nicknorman]

36 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Any news on the batteries and their performance?

It was a bit slow arriving because the stock assigned to my order was short, apparently. So in fact it just arrived yesterday. Seems well made and presented as far as one can tell at this stage. The App is a bit odd because it wants to connect to anything with Bluetooth so you have to click the battery from the list of other Bluetooth things each time. At least you can rename it.

 

I had cause to ask a technical question of the company, got a speedy response within a few hours.

 

Cells all balanced within a couple of mV and what more is there to say? Ask me again in 10 years! Someone I know was trying to help a friend with their new Renogy Li battery, it was completely dead on arrival. American company, unresponsive to customer enquiries it seems. Fortunately it was ordered via Amazon so it will be easy to return.

So for the time being at least, I’d recommend the Fogstar.

[GUMPY]

Renogy just got struck off my list 😉

Eco-worthy and Fogstar  are still on the list.

Edited November 7, 2023 by GUMPY

[rusty69]

10 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Renogy just got struck off my list 😉

Eco-worthy and Fogstar  are still on the list.

Worth looking at lifebatteries too.Similar to fogstar, maybe a bit more expensive.

[nicknorman]

Eco worthy are cheap but don’t have the built in automatic heating. Life batteries and Fogstar products look very similar, but Fogstar is cheaper,

[IanD]

18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Eco worthy are cheap but don’t have the built in automatic heating. Life batteries and Fogstar products look very similar, but Fogstar is cheaper,

Whether built-in heating is needed for boats in the UK is debatable, you can charge LFP at reduced rates (i.e. fractional-C, the ones typically used on a boat) below 0C (down to -20C for BYD IIRC) -- but many drop-in LFP suppliers just put a blanket ban on charging below 0C because it's easier, or apply heating like Fogstar.

 

Having said that, the Fogstar batteries do look well built and good value (and with support!) if they're what you're looking for... 🙂

Edited November 7, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

The heating pads could be a useful marketing tool.