Swan Neck Question

[PaulJ]

22 minutes ago, Marc Pyn said:

 

Thanks for all the info folks! Re weld, yes - thats what was happening before, so if that section is supposed to be welded underneath it does like like its come away slightly if i compare one side of the underneath to the other

Just had another look at your vid full screen.

Cap is just held on with a weld on the far side (or its just snagged on it) you can see how the cap trys to pivot on it- the nearside (to camera) weld has gone.

 

[BEngo]

In the still picture the boss on the swan neck is clear of the piece with the grease nipple ( the top bearing) .  In the video the swam neck appear to be touching the piece with the grease nipple.  It may just be camera  angle, or is it?

 

If the swan neck boss  is resting on the top bearing then the bottom of the rudder stock is no longer in the cup on the skeg.

Given the history of needing a jack,  this might mean that the cup or skeg  has been damaged but it is much more likely that the rudder has simply hopped out after hitting summat.

 

Have a very careful ferkle down the weed hatch.  Do not get your fingers  between the rudder and the skeg but see if you  can tell whether the rudder stock is in the cup. 

 

 If it is out you need to lift the whole rudder and swan neck.and drop the stock back into  the cup.  Some boats are easy, some ain't.   

 

N

[magnetman]

If that piece with the grease nipple is meant to be welded on to the tube coming up below it then broken weld is definitely the problem as it is now turning with the movement of the tiller. 

 

If course it could be a broken weld as well as rudder lifted out of cup. 

 

Also if this was the original design then catching the rudder on the cill will almost certainly break that weld. 

 

So in this situation the middle section with the grease nipple is actually just a collar of sorts which when welded to the tube part forms a plain bearing.

 

It appears there is no other bearing inside there. 

 

If you are getting water out the top this also indicates broken weld. 

 

You need to have a look under the part with the grease nipple. 

 

 

[Marc Pyn]

14 minutes ago, BEngo said:

In the still picture the boss on the swan neck is clear of the piece with the grease nipple ( the top bearing) .  In the video the swam neck appear to be touching the piece with the grease nipple.  It may just be camera  angle, or is it?

 

If the swan neck boss  is resting on the top bearing then the bottom of the rudder stock is no longer in the cup on the skeg.

Given the history of needing a jack,  this might mean that the cup or skeg  has been damaged but it is much more likely that the rudder has simply hopped out after hitting summat.

 

Have a very careful ferkle down the weed hatch.  Do not get your fingers  between the rudder and the skeg but see if you  can tell whether the rudder stock is in the cup. 

 

 If it is out you need to lift the whole rudder and swan neck.and drop the stock back into  the cup.  Some boats are easy, some ain't.   

 

N

Ah i forgot the side still picture with the video (attached) - the swan neck boss isn't resting on the top bearing so thats sounds a good sign

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If that piece with the grease nipple is meant to be welded on to the tube coming up below it then broken weld is definitely the problem as it is now turning with the movement of the tiller. 

 

If course it could be a broken weld as well as rudder lifted out of cup. 

 

Also if this was the original design then catching the rudder on the cill will almost certainly break that weld. 

 

So in this situation the middle section with the grease nipple is actually just a collar of sorts which when welded to the tube part forms a plain bearing.

 

It appears there is no other bearing inside there. 

 

If you are getting water out the top this also indicates broken weld. 

 

You need to have a look under the part with the grease nipple. 

 

 

Nice one Paul J / Magnetman - that makes sense if it's the issue, as there is no noticeable difference in the smoothness of the arm from left to right either, which i try and show at the start of the video, & weld looks split away from the tube, so ill ask the engineer tomorrow if they can repair the weld. Thanks again to everyone for their input & have made useful notes for future reference

[magnetman]

I reckon @PaulJ got it right and it you look under the part with the greaser you will see a broken weld. Boatyard should have a man with a welder who can sort this. 

 

Is it like this? the purple arrows are where the welds will be, the blue bar is the rudder post free to move up and down and the yellow/brown is the grease. 

[Marc Pyn]

42 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I reckon @PaulJ got it right and it you look under the part with the greaser you will see a broken weld. Boatyard should have a man with a welder who can sort this. 

 

Is it like this? the purple arrows are where the welds will be, the blue bar is the rudder post free to move up and down and the yellow/brown is the grease. 

 

That would make sense to me from what i can see. Does that look accurate to you @PaulJ

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I reckon @PaulJ got it right and it you look under the part with the greaser you will see a broken weld. Boatyard should have a man with a welder who can sort this. 

 

Is it like this? the purple arrows are where the welds will be, the blue bar is the rudder post free to move up and down and the yellow/brown is the grease. 

Welds are exactly like the pic.

Nicely explained @magnetman

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Marc Pyn said:

The reason for it happening was the centre line breaking as he went into a lock, and it was too far away to jump on, so it clipped the cill, but (thankfully) he got it off in time.

I don't understand that. Was he going uphill or downhill at the time? If going uphill the rudder would be nowhere near the cill, and if going downhill there would be 3+ feet of water between the bottom of the rudder and the top of the cill as he entered the lock. If the centre line had broken at that point the boat mover shouldn't have started emptying the lock until the boat had been retrieved on one side of the lock or the other (assuming it was a wide lock).

[magnetman]

Sounds like the boat mover may have hung the boat up but didn't want to admit it. 

 

One wonders if it was simply a strike while moving backwards why a jack would be needed to free it. 

 

 

[nicknorman]

13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Sounds like the boat mover may have hung the boat up but didn't want to admit it. 

 

One wonders if it was simply a strike while moving backwards why a jack would be needed to free it. 

 

I have to admit my sins, it is cathartic. Before we got Telemachus we used to borrow my mate’s boat for a couple of weeks a year, for about 15 years. And of course Rule 1 of descending a lock is always to keep an eye on position of boat vs cill. I knew that since I was a kid. Only a fool would catch the rudder on the cill. Except on this one occasion I did. Banbury lock, I still remember.

 

Rudder lifted up,  but worse it got lifted up because the skeg got bent up. Mucho embarrassing! I had to pay for a dry docking to fix it. Served me right! Although of course if it had been a Hudson, it wouldn’t have bent the skeg!

[Marc Pyn]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I don't understand that. Was he going uphill or downhill at the time? If going uphill the rudder would be nowhere near the cill, and if going downhill there would be 3+ feet of water between the bottom of the rudder and the top of the cill as he entered the lock. If the centre line had broken at that point the boat mover shouldn't have started emptying the lock until the boat had been retrieved on one side of the lock or the other (assuming it was a wide lock).

 He was going in the lock, tied it up, set it, and line snapped from what I recall from phone call. would've been going down as caught on cill. Something that should/ could be covered on his insurance if claimed for now to reimburse?

[PaulJ]

14 minutes ago, Marc Pyn said:

 He was going in the lock, tied it up, set it, and line snapped from what I recall from phone call. would've been going down as caught on cill. Something that should/ could be covered on his insurance if claimed for now to reimburse?

Going downhill at Braunston you would expect the boat to be drawn onto the bottom gates.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by PaulJ

[Stroudwater1]

I’m amazed the boat mover had the brass neck to charge you for the jack etc to rectify what they did. No two ways the boat mover cilled your boat through their poor locking.
 

The whole story doesn’t really add up with this snapped centre line. I fear the boat mover wasn’t concentrating- it’s easily done. Shame they didn’t just fess up and pay up . 
 

Thankfully with luck this maybe unrelated, or at least it’s a reasonably easy fix. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Marc Pyn said:

 He was going in the lock, tied it up, set it, and line snapped from what I recall from phone call. would've been going down as caught on cill. Something that should/ could be covered on his insurance if claimed for now to reimburse?

So the rope snapped because he had tied it or got it caught round a bollard as the lock emptied? The cost of the consequent repair should definitely have been covered by the boat mover or his insurance!

[magnetman]

 

Maybe the boat mover accidentally left the boat in reverse. 

 

Sounds a little incompetent. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by magnetman

[PaulJ]

26 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Maybe the boat mover accidentally left the boat in reverse. 

 

Sounds a little incompetent. 

That was my thought too (having come across the odd boat with horrible gear changes)- or had forgot to drop the top paddles..

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Going downhill at Braunston you would expect the boat to be drawn onto the bottom gates.

 

If he tied the rope to fat back it would have pulled the boat back as the lock emptied. Who ties and snaps ropes in locks?

[magnetman]

Are names sought or just a generic descriptive word?

[PaulJ]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If he tied the rope to fat back it would have pulled the boat back as the lock emptied. Who ties and snaps ropes in locks?

I guess you have to also allow for the unforeseeable too.

I always think of that lock at Berko with the remains of someones centre line that got wedged in a crack. Bet that line snapped 😀

[magnetman]

You do want the rope to break rather than rip fittings orf the boat. 

 

CWDF member @Chris J W had a nasty encounter a number yars ago when the centre roof attachment eye came orf and was catapulted at him by the stretched rope with great force. He wore spectacles and was fortunate that the item hit him in the shoulder.

 

Very nasty and an advert for weaker centre line ropes plus never stand in the line of a tensioned rope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by magnetman

[Marc Pyn]

Thanks for the responses folks. The centre line was frayed when he left, but I wasnt made aware that it was frayed or there was only one, and I could only check his requested itinerary with the yard as it was so far away and had COVID, hence needing the boat mover at the time. I didn't notice the 3 times we went down before but that was his reason for asking for us to cover. From these reaponses I think I'll get in touch as sounds like it should've been covered. 

[magnetman]

You were lucky the thread didn't descend into an argument about whether 'swan neck' is the right term for the Z shaped bit of the tiller. I think it is but some people call it the ram's head or Z iron. 

 

Swans neck is a good term. 

 

 

 

 

[system 4-50]

11 hours ago, Marc Pyn said:

Thanks for the responses folks. The centre line was frayed when he left, but I wasnt made aware that it was frayed or there was only one, and I could only check his requested itinerary with the yard as it was so far away and had COVID, hence needing the boat mover at the time. I didn't notice the 3 times we went down before but that was his reason for asking for us to cover. From these reaponses I think I'll get in touch as sounds like it should've been covered. 

Costs like these are part of boating.  I would just pay up and get ready for the next hit.

[Marc Pyn]

11 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Costs like these are part of boating.  I would just pay up and get ready for the next hit.

Its a boat move from last year we're reffering to so its been paid - whats your point?

Edited September 22, 2023 by Marc Pyn