Licences

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, Private Fraser said:

And so it begins 🙄

The surcharge does not specify CCing but whether you have a home mooring. This might be to avoid these issues and is capable of definition in a way that CC is not.

[magnetman]

It has all been gone through on the thread already. There is repetitition now.

 

 

[Momac]

On last nights TV news it was said that inflation is heading down towards 5% with the greater challenge perhaps being  to halve that to 2.5%.

So it seems likely that given the C&RT review of fees  will be in November 2023  and the  license fees will increase by something like  5+5= 10% (at least ) in April 2024.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by MartynG

[MtB]

It has all been gone through on the thread already. There is repetitition now.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, GUMPY said:

In the days when I used to pay an EOG mooring fee I used to cancel it in April and get a refund, go boating until October when I would take out a new EOG mooring worked well 😉.

I used to pay the owner for the whole year I just saved 6 months EOG fee.

Due to a deal with cart/BW the landowner took over paying the EOG fee so I had to pay for the full year. 😟

Probably because CRT noticed the fiddle. As you kept the mooring, you never actually stopped being a "boater with a home mooring", though I also can't see why you should have to pay CRT for something you had no intention of using for six months. Maybe it's just a "mooring", but not a "home mooring"?

There's a boater at my place who pays for the mooring in case he ever needs it but who cruises all year. I assume he's registered as CC - it's an interesting point, especially as he lives on the boat and the mooring is non-residential. We pay EOG, not the landowner.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

It has all been gone through on the thread already. There is repetitition now.

 

 

hang on just a minute…

 

don’t forget the many deviations ?

[magnetman]

I...

 

Hesitation 

[GUMPY]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

There's a boater at my place who pays for the mooring in case he ever needs it but who cruises all year. I assume he's registered as CC - it's an interesting point, especially as he lives on the boat and the mooring is non-residential. We pay EOG, not the landowner

 It was a case of cart/BW not wanting to own the bank anymore.

If you pay EOG and go off for the summer you could easily reduce your outgoings the same way.

You would still have a home mooring available so not CC just pay when you use the mooring.

Having said that where you are there is a good chance you would never get back to your mooring if you went away 😅

[Arthur Marshall]

54 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

 

Having said that where you are there is a good chance you would never get back to your mooring if you went away 😅

Sad but true! I'll gamble again next year though...

[Ianws]

9 hours ago, MartynG said:

On last nights TV news it was said that inflation is heading down towards 5% with the greater challenge perhaps being  to halve that to 2.5%.

So it seems likely that given the C&RT review of fees  will be in November 2023  and the  license fees will increase by something like  5+5= 10% (at least ) in April 2024.

 

 

C&RT have said inflation plus an extra amount. If they have aclue about their finances they will have an amount they want to collect from licence fees. Whatever inflation is at the time the can add their plus, whatever it is, to fit what they think they need. Lots of fingers in the air in the meantime. 

[Momac]

36 minutes ago, Ianws said:

C&RT have said inflation plus an extra amount. If they have aclue about their finances they will have an amount they want to collect from licence fees. Whatever inflation is at the time the can add their plus, whatever it is, to fit what they think they need. Lots of fingers in the air in the meantime. 

Yes you are correct the standard percentage increase for each year could be any percentage . Nothing new there.

 

 

 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

14 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Sad but true! I'll gamble again next year though...

I'd go now while we only have 31 stoppages ...

[magnetman]

New CRT licence enforcement crew. 

 

[peterboat]

A friend advised me of another mooring off CRT waters last night, I am on the list for the next mooring there. It has water and Rubbish so will do me fine

[IanD]

22 hours ago, peterboat said:

A friend advised me of another mooring off CRT waters last night, I am on the list for the next mooring there. It has water and Rubbish so will do me fine

Does it have power for EV charging and space for all your compost heaps for the toilet (and the garden to use the result) too? 😉

Edited October 22, 2023 by IanD

[peterboat]

31 minutes ago, IanD said:

Does it have power for EV charging and space for all your compost heaps for the toilet (and the garden to use the result) too? 😉

Yes both of them do, so happy days as the moorings are much cheaper as well plus no money to CRT, wonder how many more license fees they are going to lose?

[Momac]

7 hours ago, peterboat said:

.......wonder how many more license fees they are going to lose?

Is it possible that C&RT have realised narrowboats need canals more than canals  need narrowboats?

Fewer boats each paying more may be a good outcome for C&RT.

 

 

 

[MtB]

7 hours ago, peterboat said:

Yes both of them do, so happy days as the moorings are much cheaper as well plus no money to CRT, wonder how many more license fees they are going to lose?

 

Well none probably, as the boat vacating your new mooring will have to go somewhere, and probably onto a CRT mooring. 

 

Unless your new mooring has been created out of nothing. in which case CRT will lose one licence fee, being yours. 

 

Asuming you are giving up cruising. If not, you'll still need a licence.

[peterboat]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Well none probably, as the boat vacating your new mooring will have to go somewhere, and probably onto a CRT mooring. 

 

Unless your new mooring has been created out of nothing. in which case CRT will lose one licence fee, being yours. 

 

Asuming you are giving up cruising. If not, you'll still need a licence.

Might just get a month's Rover license a couple of times a year, do me fine or might not bother like every one else. The narrowboat on the moorings is ancient and allegedly getting scrapped. The other mooring has a very large boat on it probably destined for the Thames when sold

[Snakey]

On 19/10/2023 at 08:30, magnetman said:

It also just says 'will be available for the vessel' not 'used by the vessel'. 

But that seems to be subject to CRT 'interpretation' too. When we bought our current boat (in 2009) we also secured a CRT linear mooring (Nantwich embankment) by auction.  Then we went cruising. Five years later we received a letter from CRT to the effect that according to their records we had not used our mooring for 'at least 3 years' and as our pattern  of movement entitled us to re-licence  as a continuous cruiser, and therefore would we please release the mooring for others to use. So it seems that you must actually use the mooring if you have one.

[magnetman]

I think this might be the CRT acting ultra vires. 

 

The late and missed Nigel Moore used this term quite a lot and it is an interesting term. Literal translation is 'beyond the powers'. Some councils act ultra vires quite a lot. 

 

The CRT are a creature of statute. They can (in theory!) only do what statute specifically allows them to do. If statute does not allow it they can't do it. Well they can, and do, but it is then ultra vires.

This is different from a natural person who can do things as long as they are not specifically forbidden. 

 

One wonders what part of statute the CRT might use if someone is paying for a mooring but opting not to use it. 

 

It is an interesting subject. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Snakey said:

But that seems to be subject to CRT 'interpretation' too. When we bought our current boat (in 2009) we also secured a CRT linear mooring (Nantwich embankment) by auction.  Then we went cruising. Five years later we received a letter from CRT to the effect that according to their records we had not used our mooring for 'at least 3 years' and as our pattern  of movement entitled us to re-licence  as a continuous cruiser, and therefore would we please release the mooring for others to use. So it seems that you must actually use the mooring if you have one.

Of course, having the mooring negates your right to stay in a place for up to 14 days. It leaves you no legal right to moor up for a couple of weeks, and CRT could justifiably hassle you to keep moving. It's an interesting legal mess, not helped by weird and wonderful judgements. Since CRT amended the t&cs, it's got weirder.

[Snakey]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Of course, having the mooring negates your right to stay in a place for up to 14 days. It leaves you no legal right to moor up for a couple of weeks, and CRT could justifiably hassle you to keep moving.

This is either outright incorrect, or certainly not as per current rules are applied. CRT say the posted mooring limits on totems (and the default 14 days) are applicable to ALL boaters.

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Of course, having the mooring negates your right to stay in a place for up to 14 days. It leaves you no legal right to moor up for a couple of weeks, and CRT could justifiably hassle you to keep moving. 

I agree that's not correct .

Please  see the following

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/42989-mooring-obligations-booklet.pdf?v=565d81

[Arthur Marshall]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I agree that's not correct .

Please  see the following

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/42989-mooring-obligations-booklet.pdf?v=565d81

The legal right to moor for 14 days, as stated in the Acts, only applies to CCers. CRT have included this in the T&Cs (as I indicated) to include all boaters, and of course you agree to this every time you get your licence. This is relatively recent, and I don't think would have applied when Snakey was cruising in 2014, though I admit I can't remember when the change came. And, anyway, as its only in the T&Cs, CRT could withdraw the concession at any time for home moorers - which they can't for CCers. Not that there's any reason they should.