HVO

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was working in the Oil industry in the 80's and 90's and remember the doom and gloom when oil dipped to a low of $9 (1998) and $10 (1999) a barrel.

 

Brent crude is $90.65 right now. I predict £1.75 a litre soon given there is about three week lag between the spot price and price of refined at the pump. 

 

On the way up that is. On the way down, the delay is about three months. Odd, that...

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Tesco was the cheapest I could find to fill up yesterday at £1.519.

£1.56 / £1.60  most of the way back from Wales today and almost £1.80 on the motoway

 

Prices do seem to be rising over the last few days

Motorway prices are always silly money

It' s been years since I refuelled a car  on a motorway.

 

£1.95 for red diesel which you reported still looks excessive.

Red at 60/40 used to be about 20p less than road fuel 

 

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, MartynG said:

£1.95 for red diesel which you reported still looks excessive.

 

Excessive by what measure?

 

Comparison with road fuel retailers who shift 15,000 litres a day? 

[dmr]

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Brent crude is $90.65 right now. I predict £1.75 a litre soon given there is about three week lag between the spot price and price of refined at the pump. 

 

On the way up that is. On the way down, the delay is about three months. Odd, that...

 

and that is a problem with HVO, there is no reason why it should follow diesel prices (except supply and demand) so when diesel goes up so does HVO, but when the diesel goes down HVO stays up.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, MartynG said:

Motorway prices are always silly money

It' s been years since I refuelled a car  on a motorway.

 

£1.95 for red diesel which you reported still looks excessive.

Red at 60/40 used to be about 20p less than road fuel 

 

 

Marinas have a captive market, if you need it you pay whatever the price is.

After all he didn't have the option of cruising up to a Tesco forecourt and getting White at £1.519.

 

 

He had just bought it (a year 2020 model) and it was immaculate.

 

SPECS

Hull Material: Fiberglass
Engine/Fuel Type: Single diesel
Builder: Jet-Tern Marine
Designer: Howard Chen, NA
Hull Design: Full Displacement
Average Range: 1,680 miles

 

DIMENSIONS

LOA:  45′ 2″
Beam:  14′ 6″
LWL:  38′ 5″
Length on Deck:  40′ 0″
Maximum Draft:  4′ 10″
Displacement:  40,000 lbs.
Bridge Clearance:  21′ 2″

[Momac]

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Excessive by what measure?

 

Comparison with road fuel retailers who shift 15,000 litres a day? 

Its usual for red diesel at the 60/40 duty rate to be less cost than white road diesel eve  with the co consideration of lower turnover.

I am surprised you do don't know that but perhaps you don't but fuel from marinas or fuel boats ? 

I checked the diesel at the marina here and its £1.34 , so yes £1.95 is excessive

 

[Ewan123]

I bumped into the chap on Spey just now (Spey having been somewhat of a 'poster child' for HVO in narrowboats). They've stopped using HVO for the time being due to the higher costs, but hope to start again when the price comes down. Interestingly, he said that rail companies have got on board with HVO which must be a significant part of the high demand affecting prices. His supplier (Crown Oils) is apparently building a new and bigger production facility at the moment - once that comes online it might help the cost overall.

 

I reckon we're going to see a few ups and downs just as demand increases and production volume lags behind but does catch up. Here's hoping!

[dmr]

I Went past Aqueduct Marina a few days ago and they have HVO, I think it was £2.26 per litre. I suspect HVO has to be 100% propulsion so this is not a bad price, though still a lot more than diesel. For some legal reason they had a minimum quantity of 100litre which was unfortunately no good for me.

 

I think Spey gave up because they could not get HVO at a reasonable price canalside. It looks to me that getting HVO delivered to a tank in 500+ litres, ideally 1000+ litres is the only wat to get a reasonable price but this is not viable for most boaters.

[ditchcrawler]

55 minutes ago, dmr said:

I Went past Aqueduct Marina a few days ago and they have HVO, I think it was £2.26 per litre. I suspect HVO has to be 100% propulsion so this is not a bad price, though still a lot more than diesel. For some legal reason they had a minimum quantity of 100litre which was unfortunately no good for me.

 

I think Spey gave up because they could not get HVO at a reasonable price canalside. It looks to me that getting HVO delivered to a tank in 500+ litres, ideally 1000+ litres is the only wat to get a reasonable price but this is not viable for most boaters.

I think they had a deal with Crown

 

[dmr]

Crown are the main supplier of HVO.

HVO can not be used for heating and boaters have to pay the extra duty on propulsion so logically only white HVO can be supplied.

I estimate HVO is about 60p litre more than diesel. Red diesel canalside is about £1.20, so add on the propulsion duty, the HVO premium and then the 20% VAT and its going to be well over £2/litre.

non bulk deliveries are either 200l drums or "fuel boxes" and these appear to put the price up to over £3/litre.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, dmr said:

HVO can not be used for heating

 

How so?

 

Is it. legal thing or won't it burn in (say) a pressure jet oil burner? 

 

(Just wondering about getting my domestic oil tank filled with HVO next refill and converting my boiler to run on it.)

[dmr]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How so?

 

Is it. legal thing or won't it burn in (say) a pressure jet oil burner? 

 

(Just wondering about getting my domestic oil tank filled with HVO next refill and converting my boiler to run on it.)

because the govument sais so.

 

If there is any sort of masterplan then it would be for heatpumps to provide heating and HVO to replace diesel in those applications that can't easily use batteries, but more likely its just muddled thinking.

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, dmr said:

because the govument sais so.

 

Hmm... does this mean Crown Oils will find strings of excuses not to fill my tank with HVO if they suspect it feeds an oil boiler?

 

[dmr]

You will have to sign declarations for

1 I am entitled to use red for (select from list)   assuming you are getting red

2 I am not going to use HVO for heating.

 

Can you borrow a tractor and park it outside your house for when the delivery arrives 😀

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

Can you borrow a tractor and park it outside your house for when the delivery arrives 😀

On the road?

....when claiming not for road use?

Or don’t that matter?

 

[peterboat]

On 09/09/2023 at 23:05, MtB said:

 

Yes we were within an ace of $90 a barrel a few days ago when I last looked. Not been that high for a while now.

 

Also the £/$ exchange rate affects the price here as much as the price per barrel, and that is, I think, pretty stable at the mo, since that bloody Trussquake woman was finally slung out.

 

Nothing to do with her, it's all to do with OPEC cutting production twice this year by 2.4 million barrels daily.  Also Russia has stopped the sale of diesel and petrol to other countries pushing up the price of oil and fuels in general.

As you know I bought a load of it a few years ago it was cheap .79 pence a litre I will be using it for years in my genny. I wouldn't buy it again, as it's not remotely green,  palm oil is a large amount of its base ingredient which is responsible for deforestation of the rainforests. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by peterboat

[Momac]

8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Also Russia has stopped the sale of diesel and petrol to other countries pushing up the price of oil and fuels in general 

 

It seems Russia has recently resumed  exports .  

 

[peterboat]

11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

It seems Russia has recently resumed  exports .  

 

I haven't read that but it doesn't surprise me, 18% of our diesel in imported probably from Russia 

[dmr]

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

On the road?

....when claiming not for road use?

Or don’t that matter?

 

The new laws on red are complicated.

I think MtB can park his tractor outside his house and fuel it from his tank, he can then drive it on the road to his extensive farm down the road. He can take his lunch and tools with him, but if he stops at the shops on the way home he is transporting goods and in big trouble 😀

 

He can do this in his tractor, if his farm vehicle is a Range Rover (even with a pig in the back) then again he is in trouble.

[PeterF]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

How so?

 

Is it. legal thing or won't it burn in (say) a pressure jet oil burner? 

 

(Just wondering about getting my domestic oil tank filled with HVO next refill and converting my boiler to run on it.)

I got my boat almost to 100% HVO last year and it ran fine in the engine, a newish Beta 43 from 2000, the Webasto and the Refleks stove. I started back on red diesel this year because the >£2.20 per litre made it hard to stomach plus the dubious green credentials.

[Momac]

9 hours ago, peterboat said:

I haven't read that but it doesn't surprise me, 18% of our diesel in imported probably from Russia 

I don't think the resumed exports will be directly to the EU/Nato countries 

But its still a supply of diesel wherever it is going.

 

[Momac]

Diesel  price moved down a touch last week according to Farmers Weekly . Seems a bit early to be a reaction to Russian exports.

 

[ditchcrawler]

This just popped up on my Facebook page, its from the IWA so you should be able to open it . Some here may know more about it. Leisure boaters move closer to using subsidised biofuel in battle to decarbonise waterways - Inland Waterways

[Alan de Enfield]

I don't think the problem has been solely price, I think, not only has 'the elephant in the room come home to roost' (what is it made from) but when I spoke with Crown oils they said there just was not enough worldwide capacity (let alone UK capacity) to meet a fraction of demand and the big users, such as construction, would get priority over a'few boaters'.

[Momac]

Meanwhile diesel price is 10p less than 2 months ago.