To survey or not to survey

[Craig Herriman]

Hi

im in the process of buying an 8 year old widebeam. The boat was blacked last year by the current owner, I’m buying the boat as a live aboard with the proceeds from the sale of my house, which will take 4 to 6 weeks. Unfortunately finding an available dry dock to have a survey done is proving problematic as there is either a waiting list to use a dry dock or others are too far away. Time is of the essence as i will only be able to pay for the boat after the sale of my house goes through. If I don’t move in board straight away i will be homeless with two dogs! What is your advice? Should i get a survey or not? 

[Tonka]

Which area is the boat

[mrsmelly]

You have opened a can of worms. It cannot be answered.you will have replies from people scared of their own shadow that would survey a block of gold right through to people who always take a risk. Surveyors generally cover their arses so there is little come back when they cock up. What is your general outlook on life? At 8 years a visual inspection should quickly see if the hull is ok and that's the main thing. For myself I owned 8 boats over 30 odd years and never had a survey, I didn't have one on my last two houses either. Never had a problem. Others will now disagree 😜

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You have opened a can of worms. It cannot be answered.you will have replies from people scared of their own shadow that would survey a block of gold right through to people who always take a risk. Surveyors generally cover their arses so there is little come back when they cock up. What is your general outlook on life? At 8 years a visual inspection should quickly see if the hull is ok and that's the main thing. For myself I owned 8 boats over 30 odd years and never had a survey, I didn't have one on my last two houses either. Never had a problem. Others will now disagree 😜

 

 

Given the time contraints I'd make life easy for myslef and just buy it. I doubt there is much wrong at only 8 years old and even if there is, nothing goes wrong quickly so you'll have a few years to discover problems and sort them out. 

But then I'm the gung-ho type who just buys a boat and deals with whatever I find I've bought. Other peeps like to survey to reveal all the problems (and there always ARE problems) and quibble about the price and lose the sale, lol. 

 

 

 

[Bee]

Well, 8 years is not a long time and I would be surprised if there is much corrosion through age. Getting a boat 'blacked' can mean anything from a really good job with modern coatings including that huge area underneath (which could well have been unpainted by the builder as it is a difficult job) to a quick pressure wash and a coat of old fashioned bitumen on the sides only. As for the rest of the boat so long as it gets a BSS then I wouldn't worry. If you go ahead I would pencil in a docking for next year and budget for a very big tin of paint and give it 3 coats of something better than bitumen.

[Peanut]

It will be your own decision, and will depend on your experience, the value of the boat and your attitude to risk. Also, check if your insurers would like one.

I had a survey done while the boat was held in slings no dock needed. That was in a four post lift, there may be few where you are .  You could always use a b&b for a week or two, if there is going to be a delay.

Have you somewhere to keep the boat?

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Lots of people have asked the same over the last year, do a search to save you time and likely the same repeated answers and opinions. Here’s one to get you started.

 

[Craig Herriman]

Just now, Peanut said:

It will be your own decision, and will depend on your experience, the value of the boat and your attitude to risk. Also, check if your insurers would like one.

I had a survey done while the boat was held in slings no dock needed. That was in a four post lift, there may be few where you are .  You could always use a b&b for a week or two, if there is going to be a delay.

Have you somewhere to keep the boat?

Yes i have mooring sorted, the thing is i still work three days a week and need to be fairly near to work to get home at lunchtime for my dogs, Im supposing it may be hard to find a rental with dogs close to work 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Peanut said:

You could always use a b&b for a week or two, if there is going to be a delay.

 

Lolol.

 

Delays in boat world are 1) commonplace, almost mandatory and 2) tend to end up being measured in months even though the yard keeps telling you a week or two! 

[Peanut]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Lolol.

 

Delays in boat world are 1) commonplace, almost mandatory and 2) tend to end up being measured in months even though the yard keeps telling you a week or two! 

I probably wouldn't bother, but in the current market an eight year old fat boat could be well north of £100K.

[Paul C]

32 minutes ago, Craig Herriman said:

Hi

im in the process of buying an 8 year old widebeam. The boat was blacked last year by the current owner, I’m buying the boat as a live aboard with the proceeds from the sale of my house, which will take 4 to 6 weeks. Unfortunately finding an available dry dock to have a survey done is proving problematic as there is either a waiting list to use a dry dock or others are too far away. Time is of the essence as i will only be able to pay for the boat after the sale of my house goes through. If I don’t move in board straight away i will be homeless with two dogs! What is your advice? Should i get a survey or not? 

 

Redo your logistical/living arrangements so you're not putting yourself under time pressure to buy/move onto a boat after you sell the house. Otherwise, you are a "sitting duck". 

 

Here's an alternate view: if you do a survey, and they point out a bunch of issues, you will be able to negotiate a discount which will easily get the money back for the survey and go a long way towards paying for the necessary repairs (or a useful fund, if in fact those items aren't immediately necessary). If you didn't get the survey......you have no leverage. And if you have a survey and it reveals nothing - great!

 

And to the theory that by insisting on a survey and another buyer will come along and "snap it up" without one for a quick sale - let them! They will be financially poorer for doing so. A sensible seller, on a high value boat, would be an idiot for not letting a buyer survey it.

[Tracy D'arth]

If its a Collinwood, get it surveyed. Many have defects from new, like missing welds!

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

40 minutes ago, Peanut said:

I probably wouldn't bother, but in the current market an eight year old fat boat could be well north of £100K.

Like everything, all depends on the quality of the product, this train of thought often leads to the seller massively overpricing his boat. I know of two widebeams both on the market a long time, one over a year which has just been reduced by over £30K and the other a similar reduction in price.

Edited September 3, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Paul C]

Are you a novice or experienced with canal boating?

 

Yeah and 8 years old.........people get new build boats surveyed (sometimes several times) during the build, age is no indication that everything was right at the start, or whatever. But you're obviously at a significant advantage with a newer boat vs older boat for component wear.

[Tracy D'arth]

Wide beams are a diminishing asset now.  Poor investment.

 

Tin hat on.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Wide beams are a diminishing asset now.  Poor investment.

 

Tin hat on.

Agree, as many people bought them thinking they will rise massively in value, also people bought sail aways to fit out thinking they'll make a killing, lots available for sale that are way overpriced. The fall of house prices may mean a fall in widebeam prices also??

[MtB]

30 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Wide beams are a diminishing asset now.  Poor investment.

 

Tin hat on.

 

Just to expand on this in case it affects the OP's decision, a consultation was held by CRT in the Spring and it is widely considered they were seeking support for a massive hike in widebeam licence charges as they are currently unfairly cheap. It is generally expected the will change the licence basis to some sort of length x width formula so widebeams pay in proportion to all the extra the space they take up.

 

 

Results of the consultation and licence revisions due to be announced any time now. (Promised for 'late summer'.)

 

 

[peterboat]

44 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Wide beams are a diminishing asset now.  Poor investment.

 

Tin hat on.

 

32 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Agree, as many people bought them thinking they will rise massively in value, also people bought sail aways to fit out thinking they'll make a killing, lots available for sale that are way overpriced. The fall of house prices may mean a fall in widebeam prices also??

Prices are still going up for widebeams, good ones that is

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Just to expand on this in case it affects the OP's decision, a consultation was held by CRT in the Spring and it is widely considered they were seeking support for a massive hike in widebeam licence charges as they are currently unfairly cheap. It is generally expected the will change the licence basis to some sort of length x width formula so widebeams pay in proportion to all the extra the space they take up.

 

 

Results of the consultation and licence revisions due to be announced any time now. (Promised for 'late summer'.)

 

 

Originally End of June I thought?

[Peanut]

A 60x12 Colingwood wide beam, sailaway lined, costs about £105K nowadays. Probably around £65K four years ago. There has been a massive hike in new boat prices, feeding all the way down the chain, but old boats still have the same ware and tear, and costs, but at today's prices. Plenty cashing in, as boats seem to be being flipped with a cosmetic makeover.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 hours ago, Peanut said:

A 60x12 Colingwood wide beam, sailaway lined, costs about £105K nowadays. Probably around £65K four years ago. There has been a massive hike in new boat prices, feeding all the way down the chain, but old boats still have the same ware and tear, and costs, but at today's prices. Plenty cashing in, as boats seem to be being flipped with a cosmetic makeover.

 And before that when 57’x10’6” cruisers sterns were the norm, £40K ish lined sailaway, a lot were sold for self fit outs, Isuzu 55 engine, reverse layout, down rear steps to Galley and breakfast bar, open lounge, off corridor bathroom, front bedroom with double bed. Standard layout for the self-fit guy, who then put it on the market hoping to get £120-£130K, lots of these boats out there with crap self-fits, that the owners now compare with the 60’x12’ Euro Cruiser square stern design that came out years later.😂

Edited September 3, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Peanut]

I would be very wary of a self fit out. The builder may have some diy, building or other trade experience, but they are not boat fitters. Superficially some appear to be top notch, others more rustic, but they can hide multiple, "good idea's," and bad, which are a compleate pain to fix. At least yard work will likely be done properly and improved by experience.

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Craig Herriman said:

Hi

im in the process of buying an 8 year old widebeam. The boat was blacked last year by the current owner, I’m buying the boat as a live aboard with the proceeds from the sale of my house, which will take 4 to 6 weeks. Unfortunately finding an available dry dock to have a survey done is proving problematic as there is either a waiting list to use a dry dock or others are too far away. Time is of the essence as i will only be able to pay for the boat after the sale of my house goes through. If I don’t move in board straight away i will be homeless with two dogs! What is your advice? Should i get a survey or not? 

I gather you want to keep yourself plus two dogs in a marina, RESIDENTIALY !!!!

Not sure where or why, but I'd be looking for a nice dog walking mooring.

I don't want to throw cold water on your plans, but do you know that most marina moorings are for leisure use not for residential use.

If you are selling up your bricks and mortar and don't have much understanding of continuous cruising / marina living / inland water boating and boats, best spend a week or so on this site before you do anything drastic.

You could hire a tiny boat for a few days experience or even go on a few trip boats, talk to boaters near your base.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You could hire a tiny boat for a few days experience or even go on a few trip boats, talk to boaters near your base.

 

Or even come down to the K&A and hire a widebeam for a week, from Honeystreet. 

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, Bee said:

Well, 8 years is not a long time and I would be surprised if there is much corrosion through age. Getting a boat 'blacked' can mean anything from a really good job with modern coatings including that huge area underneath (which could well have been unpainted by the builder as it is a difficult job) to a quick pressure wash and a coat of old fashioned bitumen on the sides only. As for the rest of the boat so long as it gets a BSS then I wouldn't worry. If you go ahead I would pencil in a docking for next year and budget for a very big tin of paint and give it 3 coats of something better than bitumen.

Yep, depending on the price, and other factors, maybe negotiate with vendor, remembering that he has the option to sell to another person.

If you are going to offer a deposit to get him to take boat off market, then he might also negotiate a price reduction, at least the cost of the survey.

If you buy a boat to live on, as I assume many wide beams are, then be aware of the pros and the cons. Living on a boat is better than living in a house in many ways. Others might say living in a house is better than living in a boat.

[Craig Herriman]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Or even come down to the K&A and hire a widebeam for a week, from Honeystreet. 

That would be out if the question now im afraid, I’ve sold my house and need to move fast , no time for holidays and courses haha 

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I gather you want to keep yourself plus two dogs in a marina, RESIDENTIALY !!!!

Not sure where or why, but I'd be looking for a nice dog walking mooring.

I don't want to throw cold water on your plans, but do you know that most marina moorings are for leisure use not for residential use.

If you are selling up your bricks and mortar and don't have much understanding of continuous cruising / marina living / inland water boating and boats, best spend a week or so on this site before you do anything drastic.

You could hire a tiny boat for a few days experience or even go on a few trip boats, talk to boaters near your base.

The marina im going is a residential marina! Don’t worry I've done my homework haha