100 ah or 200ah LiFePO4 batteries

[Tony1]

 

I've lived aboard using 400Ah of lithiums for about 2 years, and I wouldn't contemplate using any less than 400Ah unless budget was a really critical. 

In fact I would prefer to have 500Ah. It's an area where you might save some money, but will come back to frustrate you in future months by constraining your electricity usage. 

I use a small electric kettle half a dozen times a day (with two people your usage would be double mine of course), laptop running for maybe 4-5 hours a day (and more in winter, if I'm indoors for much of the day), the fridge is on 24/7 (but no freezer), wifi router left on 24/7, etc.  Also recharge an ebike every couple of days, among other things.

 

I reckon I use about 140 to 160Ah of charge per day- and with two of you, you might go higher than that.

My normal day to day cycling/usage of the batteries is to charge them up to about 80% state of charge (SoC), which I understand will help to lengthen their lifespan significantly. There are odd days I charge them higher, but generally I charge up to about 80-85% to avoid stressing them.

For most of the year that charging is done via solar, but in Nov to Jan it's mostly done by engine charging, with a bit of solar added in. 

After charging, I allow them to run down to about 40% before starting to recharge them, and I like to have a decent amount of extra charge in reserve as a contingency- so the amount of 'useful' day to day charge from my 400Ah of batteries is about 160Ah. 

(In an emergency I would charge them up to 95% and let them run down to 10%, of course, but I'm talking about typical usage here.) 

 

What you also need to think about is the timing of your battery charging, especially in winter.

You can't run the engine/genny to recharge batteries after 8pm, so if you've hammered them for a while (using kettle, washing machine, or power tools say), and you suddenly realise that they are down to 30% by about 7pm, the pressure will be on to get some charge back in them quickly, before the 8pm deadline, so that you can continue to run the fridge and other stuff overnight, and still have some contingency charge left in them when you get up in the morning. Trying to run a kettle (and thus draw 80 amps or more)  from a battery that is down to say 15% can cause the battery voltage to temporarily drop a fair bit, such that you can trigger the battery's disconnect system.

 

So in my case, during the winter I keep an eye on the state of charge during the early evening. I like to make sure the batteries are at least 40% SoC by 7pm, as I know from experience that they will still be well above 25% in the morning, and I'll have no problem running the kettle.

 

Given your ideas about electricity usage, I would guess that 200Ah is not going to be enough. You might find yourself doing a charge in the morning, getting them up to about 80% SoC, and yet still not having enough charge left in them by evening. So you might find yourself doing a second charge in the evening, to keep them above a comfortable minimum charge level overnight. 

For an easier life, the minimum I would suggest is that your battery capacity should be at least twice your daily usage. So if you use about 150Ah per day (and it could be more), you would want at least 300Ah of batteries. 

And even that gives you very little contingency or wiggle room for those days when you can't charge when you want, for some reason (e.g. you're away from the boat all day, and dont get back till after 8pm).

The thinking behind suggesting that your battery capacity should be twice your normal daily usage is that you would want to use about 50% of your lithium battery capacity day to day. Sometimes it will be more, of course- but for maximum longevity you want to keep them between 30% and 80% full.

And in the real world, on those winter evenings you might not feel happy watching them get down below 40% in the evening. 

At the back of my mind there is always that thought that I should have some contingency charge left in the batteries in case I have to use them for longer than I expected to, e.g. if the charging system breaks (and if the winter charging system is your engine, then every serious engine malfunction also means you have no charging for the batteries).  

 

ETA- when pricing the batteries, do factor in the cost of a charging system, if you will be using the engine alternator(s). 

You cant just hook up a lithium battery to the alternator, they will need some control over the charging voltage and the current. I think gennies might be a simpler charging solution, but then you have to go traipsing to local garages with a 10 litre petrol can. 

And if you cruise several times per week, it seems daft not to use all that engine charging you could be doing for the lithium batteries- so some sort of engine charging system would be needed even if you use a genny for your non-cruising days. 

 

And the other factor is that an hour of engine running in winter also gives you a tank full of hot water, which a genny doesn't provide. 

At the risk of sounding like a management consultant, you should take a holistic approach to energy usage, batteries, and charging systems, since you are still in the designing/building phase and are able to change your approach if needed. 

 

Further edit- you dont say what your budget is for batteries, but one of the members here has recently bought a big 460Ah battery called a Fogstar Drift for around £1300, and apparently it is excellent, so that might be a good shout if you have the budget.

The thing about them is that they are a 10-15 year purchase (at least), and it might not be that simple to just add in extra batteries to a bank that you've been running for a while, as they'll charge and discharge a bit differently. 

So its worth getting the capacity question right early doors, if possible.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Tony1

[peterboat]

24 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I've lived aboard using 400Ah of lithiums for about 2 years, and I wouldn't contemplate using any less than 400Ah unless budget was a really critical. 

In fact I would prefer to have 500Ah. It's an area where you might save some money, but will come back to frustrate you in future months by constraining your electricity usage. 

I use a small electric kettle half a dozen times a day (with two people your usage would be double mine of course), laptop running for maybe 4-5 hours a day (and more in winter, if I'm indoors for much of the day), the fridge is on 24/7 (but no freezer), wifi router left on 24/7, etc.  Also recharge an ebike every couple of days, among other things.

 

I reckon I use about 140 to 160Ah of charge per day- and with two of you, you might go higher than that.

My normal day to day cycling/usage of the batteries is to charge them up to about 80% state of charge (SoC), which I understand will help to lengthen their lifespan significantly. There are odd days I charge them higher, but generally I charge up to about 80-85% to avoid stressing them.

For most of the year that charging is done via solar, but in Nov to Jan it's mostly done by engine charging, with a bit of solar added in. 

After charging, I allow them to run down to about 40% before starting to recharge them, so the amount of 'useful' day to day charge from my 400Ah of batteries is about 160Ah. 

(In an emergency I would charge them up to 95% and let them run down to 10%, of course, but I'm talking about typical usage here.) 

 

What you also need to think about is the timing of your battery charging, especially in winter.

You can't run the engine/genny to recharge batteries after 8pm, so if you've hammered them for a while (using kettle, washing machine, or power tools say), and you suddenly realise that they are down to 30% by about 7pm, the pressure will be on to get some charge back in them quickly, before the 8pm deadline, so that you can continue to run the fridge and other stuff overnight, and still have some contingency charge left in them when you get up in the morning. Trying to run a kettle (and thus draw 80 amps or more)  from a battery that is down to say 15% can cause the battery voltage to temporarily drop a fair bit, such that you can trigger the battery's disconnect system.

 

So in my case, during the winter I keep an eye on the state of charge during the early evening. I like to make sure the batteries are at least 40% SoC by 7pm, as I know from experience that they will still be well above 25% in the morning, and I'll have no problem running the kettle.

 

Given your ideas about electricity usage, I would guess that 200Ah is not going to be enough. You might find yourself doing a charge in the morning, getting them up to about 80% SoC, and yet still not having enough charge left in them by evening. So you might find yourself doing a second charge in the evening, to keep them above a comfortable minimum charge level overnight. 

For an easier life, the minimum I would suggest is that your battery capacity should be at least twice your daily usage. So if you use about 150Ah per day (and it could be more), you would want at least 300Ah of batteries. 

And even that gives you very little contingency or wiggle room for those days when you can't charge when you want, for some reason (e.g. you're away from the boat all day, and dont get back till after 8pm).

The thinking behind suggesting that your battery capacity should be twice your normal daily usage is that you would want to use about 50% of your lithium battery capacity day to day. Sometimes it will be more, of course- but for maximum longevity you want to keep them between 30% and 80% full.

And in the real world, on those winter evenings you might not feel happy watching them get down below 40% in the evening. 

At the back of my mind there is always that thought that I should have some contingency charge left in the batteries in case I have to use them for longer than I expected to, e.g. if the charging system breaks (and if the winter charging system is your engine, then every serious engine malfunction also means you have no charging for the batteries).  

 

ETA- when pricing the batteries, do factor in the cost of a charging system, if you will be using the engine alternator(s). 

You cant just hook up a lithium battery to the alternator, they will need some control over the charging voltage and the current. I think gennies might be a simpler charging solution, but then you have to go traipsing to local garages with a 10 litre petrol can. 

And if you cruise several times per week, it seems daft not to use all that engine charging you could be doing for the lithium batteries- so some sort of engine charging system would be needed even if you use a genny for your non-cruising days. 

 

And the other factor is that an hour of engine running in winter also gives you a tank full of hot water, which a genny doesn't provide. 

At the risk of sounding like a management consultant, you should take a holistic approach to energy usage, batteries, and charging systems, since you are still in the designing/building phase and are able to change your approach if needed. 

 

A built in generator like mine Tony provides hot water as well, which is why I asked them about the generator. Excellent post though and accurate which is the important thing

[Tony1]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

A built in generator like mine Tony provides hot water as well, which is why I asked them about the generator. Excellent post though and accurate which is the important thing

 

Thanks Peter- I'd love one of those big built in generators, I must admit- but I could never justify the cost of it to cover me for only 3 months of the year. 

I heard they cost a fortune.

 

 

[IanD]

43 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Peter- I'd love one of those big built in generators, I must admit- but I could never justify the cost of it to cover me for only 3 months of the year. 

I heard they cost a fortune.

 

New ones certainly do... 😞

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Peter- I'd love one of those big built in generators, I must admit- but I could never justify the cost of it to cover me for only 3 months of the year. 

I heard they cost a fortune.

 

 

Mine was secondhand from James with 4 hours on the clock! He was fitting it in his trad narrowboat but decided against it, I bought it for 1.3k works well and makes a difference to my life

[Tony1]

5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Mine was secondhand from James with 4 hours on the clock! He was fitting it in his trad narrowboat but decided against it, I bought it for 1.3k works well and makes a difference to my life

 

So as usual you got a steal of a deal! 🤣

 

I reckon you must have slipped him some hallucinogenic drugs and dressed up as Dick Turpin to get that price on a virtually-new genny. 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Tony1

[peterboat]

24 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

So as usual you got a steal of a deal! 🤣

 

I reckon you must have slipped him some hallucinogenic drugs and dressed up as Dick Turpin to get that price on a virtually-new genny. 

 

It was old but that doesn't matter as parts are available it's a vetus unit so quality Mitsubishi engine connected to a quality generator works well going to service it tomorrow 

[Naughty Cal]

The size that the battery bank needs to be does very much depend on the appliances you will be intending to run and the time between charges.

 

It is quite feasible to have a smaller battery bank if you are a low power consumer. We run a single 100ah LifePo4 in our van which is more than ample even in the depths of winter. But the majority of our main appliances (heating, hot water, fridge, cooking) are all gas powered so we don't need a massive battery bank. In fact it's arguable whether we even need lithium considering how little of it's capacity we ever use, although we wouldn't go back to FLA.

 

You need to do a power audit, come up with a sensible estimate of how much power you will use per day and add a bit for spare, times that by how many days you want to go between charges and then work out the battery bank size based on that remembering how much of each batteries capacity you can use.

[BEngo]

At some point, either because of the season  the weather, a failure, or just because you have used too much, you will need to charge the battery from an alternator or the mains ( battery charger).  This has a significant budget impact.

 

From the power audit you will get usage, in Ah.  That needs to be turned into a charge rate figure, in order to decide upon the alternator and, because it is for LiFePO4 batteries, the special alternator controller or the carefully programmed battery charger.

 

Simply divide your usage number by the time you want the batteries to charge in.  Say 150 Ah of Lithium is to be recharged in 2 hours.  That will need an alternator and controller that can do 75 Amps continuously, without overheating or wrecking its drive belts.  A 30 Amp battery charger, programmed for Lithium batteries, would do it in 5 hours.

 

The kit to charge Li batteries is not cheap. A decent alternator controller is north of £500, unless you can build your own, as Nicknorman has.

 

 Typical alternator installations are designed for lead acid batteries and do not like working flat out, so you need ones that are happy at full chat. These are priced accordingly.

 

N

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

At some point, either because of the season  the weather, a failure, or just because you have used too much, you will need to charge the battery from an alternator or the mains ( battery charger).  This has a significant budget impact.

 

From the power audit you will get usage, in Ah.  That needs to be turned into a charge rate figure, in order to decide upon the alternator and, because it is for LiFePO4 batteries, the special alternator controller or the carefully programmed battery charger.

 

Simply divide your usage number by the time you want the batteries to charge in.  Say 150 Ah of Lithium is to be recharged in 2 hours.  That will need an alternator and controller that can do 75 Amps continuously, without overheating or wrecking its drive belts.  A 30 Amp battery charger, programmed for Lithium batteries, would do it in 5 hours.

 

The kit to charge Li batteries is not cheap. A decent alternator controller is north of £500, unless you can build your own, as Nicknorman has.

 

 Typical alternator installations are designed for lead acid batteries and do not like working flat out, so you need ones that are happy at full chat. These are priced accordingly.

 

N

^^^ If this is a new build then you might as well get the charging side sorted out properly from the outset. I would recommend Ed Shiers at Four Counties Marine Servies. Top bloke, very competent and specialises in Lithium installs. https://fourcountiesmarineservices.com/lithium-batteries/

[Tony1]

29 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

^^^ If this is a new build then you might as well get the charging side sorted out properly from the outset. I would recommend Ed Shiers at Four Counties Marine Servies. Top bloke, very competent and specialises in Lithium installs. https://fourcountiesmarineservices.com/lithium-batteries/

 

Seconded- I do not believe you will find a more capable, knowledgeable and (very importantly) ethical professional to install or advise on lithium batteries and charging issues in this region. 

 

This is how fair he is:

He made a visit to my boat in late June (it was 30 miles out of his way) to attempt a fix for an issue with the engine panel warning light plus the alarm for my domestic alternator. It was a very unusual sort of job, that arose from my very novel 'twin B2B' charging setup-  and we weren't sure it was fixable in the way I wanted, but I reckoned it was worth a try.

After squeezing me into his crazy busy schedule at short notice, he arrived and then spent a couple of hours poking around in the dust and cobwebs under the engine column on a very hot afternoon, and trying out different wiring fixes, but he couldn't find a solution that he was satisfied with.

He could have sorted it out, but it would have needed a fair bit more time, another visit, and probably some installation of new electrical bits to replace the ones currently in situ.

Thankfully it wasn't a showstopper issue anyway, and I had a workaround for it, so I accepted that the benefits gained from the fix would not be worth the effort. 

 

But when I asked him what the bill was, he absolutely refused to accept any payment, not even mileage/travel costs!

In knew it advance this was a experimental bit of work that might not be successful, and I'd asked him to visit on that basis, but nonetheless he was still not happy accepting any payment without having completed the fix- not even mileage! 

He did a similar thing a couple of years ago when trying to solve my lack of alternator charging power. 

I'm not saying he'll be that generous with every boater- but then he won't need to be, because most jobs he tackles are much more straightforward than mine anyway. 

After all the headaches I've given him, he probably dreads seeing my number appear on his phone, but I have to say- I honestly don't believe you will find a better and fairer marine electrics professional. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

On 24/08/2023 at 08:10, Tony Brooks said:

 

But it seems that the excess summer solar can be diverted to heat the domestic water to a degree when the batteries are fully charged. That may be useful when you are not running your engine for some days. In that way you can use the excess charge.

Yes I agree thanks 

On 24/08/2023 at 10:55, Tony1 said:

 

I've lived aboard using 400Ah of lithiums for about 2 years, and I wouldn't contemplate using any less than 400Ah unless budget was a really critical. 

In fact I would prefer to have 500Ah. It's an area where you might save some money, but will come back to frustrate you in future months by constraining your electricity usage. 

I use a small electric kettle half a dozen times a day (with two people your usage would be double mine of course), laptop running for maybe 4-5 hours a day (and more in winter, if I'm indoors for much of the day), the fridge is on 24/7 (but no freezer), wifi router left on 24/7, etc.  Also recharge an ebike every couple of days, among other things.

 

I reckon I use about 140 to 160Ah of charge per day- and with two of you, you might go higher than that.

My normal day to day cycling/usage of the batteries is to charge them up to about 80% state of charge (SoC), which I understand will help to lengthen their lifespan significantly. There are odd days I charge them higher, but generally I charge up to about 80-85% to avoid stressing them.

For most of the year that charging is done via solar, but in Nov to Jan it's mostly done by engine charging, with a bit of solar added in. 

After charging, I allow them to run down to about 40% before starting to recharge them, and I like to have a decent amount of extra charge in reserve as a contingency- so the amount of 'useful' day to day charge from my 400Ah of batteries is about 160Ah. 

(In an emergency I would charge them up to 95% and let them run down to 10%, of course, but I'm talking about typical usage here.) 

 

What you also need to think about is the timing of your battery charging, especially in winter.

You can't run the engine/genny to recharge batteries after 8pm, so if you've hammered them for a while (using kettle, washing machine, or power tools say), and you suddenly realise that they are down to 30% by about 7pm, the pressure will be on to get some charge back in them quickly, before the 8pm deadline, so that you can continue to run the fridge and other stuff overnight, and still have some contingency charge left in them when you get up in the morning. Trying to run a kettle (and thus draw 80 amps or more)  from a battery that is down to say 15% can cause the battery voltage to temporarily drop a fair bit, such that you can trigger the battery's disconnect system.

 

So in my case, during the winter I keep an eye on the state of charge during the early evening. I like to make sure the batteries are at least 40% SoC by 7pm, as I know from experience that they will still be well above 25% in the morning, and I'll have no problem running the kettle.

 

Given your ideas about electricity usage, I would guess that 200Ah is not going to be enough. You might find yourself doing a charge in the morning, getting them up to about 80% SoC, and yet still not having enough charge left in them by evening. So you might find yourself doing a second charge in the evening, to keep them above a comfortable minimum charge level overnight. 

For an easier life, the minimum I would suggest is that your battery capacity should be at least twice your daily usage. So if you use about 150Ah per day (and it could be more), you would want at least 300Ah of batteries. 

And even that gives you very little contingency or wiggle room for those days when you can't charge when you want, for some reason (e.g. you're away from the boat all day, and dont get back till after 8pm).

The thinking behind suggesting that your battery capacity should be twice your normal daily usage is that you would want to use about 50% of your lithium battery capacity day to day. Sometimes it will be more, of course- but for maximum longevity you want to keep them between 30% and 80% full.

And in the real world, on those winter evenings you might not feel happy watching them get down below 40% in the evening. 

At the back of my mind there is always that thought that I should have some contingency charge left in the batteries in case I have to use them for longer than I expected to, e.g. if the charging system breaks (and if the winter charging system is your engine, then every serious engine malfunction also means you have no charging for the batteries).  

 

ETA- when pricing the batteries, do factor in the cost of a charging system, if you will be using the engine alternator(s). 

You cant just hook up a lithium battery to the alternator, they will need some control over the charging voltage and the current. I think gennies might be a simpler charging solution, but then you have to go traipsing to local garages with a 10 litre petrol can. 

And if you cruise several times per week, it seems daft not to use all that engine charging you could be doing for the lithium batteries- so some sort of engine charging system would be needed even if you use a genny for your non-cruising days. 

 

And the other factor is that an hour of engine running in winter also gives you a tank full of hot water, which a genny doesn't provide. 

At the risk of sounding like a management consultant, you should take a holistic approach to energy usage, batteries, and charging systems, since you are still in the designing/building phase and are able to change your approach if needed. 

 

Further edit- you dont say what your budget is for batteries, but one of the members here has recently bought a big 460Ah battery called a Fogstar Drift for around £1300, and apparently it is excellent, so that might be a good shout if you have the budget.

The thing about them is that they are a 10-15 year purchase (at least), and it might not be that simple to just add in extra batteries to a bank that you've been running for a while, as they'll charge and discharge a bit differently. 

So its worth getting the capacity question right early doors, if possible.

 

 

Thank you so much for your reply there ! That's incredibly kind and helpful, thank you. 

 

We are on the river , so hopefully means we can charge whenever. Also have a wide beam so can fit loads of solar panels on. Points noted..

On 24/08/2023 at 14:18, BEngo said:

At some point, either because of the season  the weather, a failure, or just because you have used too much, you will need to charge the battery from an alternator or the mains ( battery charger).  This has a significant budget impact.

 

From the power audit you will get usage, in Ah.  That needs to be turned into a charge rate figure, in order to decide upon the alternator and, because it is for LiFePO4 batteries, the special alternator controller or the carefully programmed battery charger.

 

Simply divide your usage number by the time you want the batteries to charge in.  Say 150 Ah of Lithium is to be recharged in 2 hours.  That will need an alternator and controller that can do 75 Amps continuously, without overheating or wrecking its drive belts.  A 30 Amp battery charger, programmed for Lithium batteries, would do it in 5 hours.

 

The kit to charge Li batteries is not cheap. A decent alternator controller is north of £500, unless you can build your own, as Nicknorman has.

 

 Typical alternator installations are designed for lead acid batteries and do not like working flat out, so you need ones that are happy at full chat. These are priced accordingly.

 

N

Thank you . That's great . At a push might know someone that could make one ... Fingers crossed as we really need every penny. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

We are on the river , so hopefully means we can charge whenever.

 

I'm not understanding what you mean by this.

 

If you mean the "no engines 8pm to 8am rule" this applies to all C&RT waters (Rivers & canals)

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Seconded- I do not believe you will find a more capable, knowledgeable and (very importantly) ethical professional to install or advise on lithium batteries and charging issues in this region. 

 

This is how fair he is:

He made a visit to my boat in late June (it was 30 miles out of his way) to attempt a fix for an issue with the engine panel warning light plus the alarm for my domestic alternator. It was a very unusual sort of job, that arose from my very novel 'twin B2B' charging setup-  and we weren't sure it was fixable in the way I wanted, but I reckoned it was worth a try.

After squeezing me into his crazy busy schedule at short notice, he arrived and then spent a couple of hours poking around in the dust and cobwebs under the engine column on a very hot afternoon, and trying out different wiring fixes, but he couldn't find a solution that he was satisfied with.

He could have sorted it out, but it would have needed a fair bit more time, another visit, and probably some installation of new electrical bits to replace the ones currently in situ.

Thankfully it wasn't a showstopper issue anyway, and I had a workaround for it, so I accepted that the benefits gained from the fix would not be worth the effort. 

 

But when I asked him what the bill was, he absolutely refused to accept any payment, not even mileage/travel costs!

In knew it advance this was a experimental bit of work that might not be successful, and I'd asked him to visit on that basis, but nonetheless he was still not happy accepting any payment without having completed the fix- not even mileage! 

He did a similar thing a couple of years ago when trying to solve my lack of alternator charging power. 

I'm not saying he'll be that generous with every boater- but then he won't need to be, because most jobs he tackles are much more straightforward than mine anyway. 

After all the headaches I've given him, he probably dreads seeing my number appear on his phone, but I have to say- I honestly don't believe you will find a better and fairer marine electrics professional. 

 

 

 

 

Thank you , perfect and not too far from us . Looking at them now. 

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'm not understanding what you mean by this.

 

If you mean the "no engines 8pm to 8am rule" this applies to all C&RT waters (Rivers & canals)

Ok hands up I didn't know that. We have no other boats near us anyway. But don't want to break the rules ... 

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Ok hands up I didn't know that. We have no other boats near us anyway. But don't want to break the rules ..

 

In which case, most would probably take the "rule" more as guidance to minimise annoyance to others.

As far as I know there is no such rules on EA rivers (Thames, Great Ouse, Nene), or the independent navigation authorities like the Avon navigation trusts, while the National Trust on the Wey basically bans living aboard for the majority of boaters.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Guest]

Very glad you said that .. 😊. 

But engine noise will wake my 5 yr old at 8pm anyway ... So would need to be a quiet generator

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Very glad you said that .. 😊. 

But engine noise will wake my 5 yr old at 8pm anyway ... So would need to be a quiet generator

 

If you are having a boat built, it is an ideal time to have a quiet generator (water cooled & cacooned) installed - it will add some £10,000 to the price but what price (realtive) quiet ?

You should look to have a 1500rpm generator as they are much quieter than a 3000 rpm generator (these sound almost like a lawn mower, or motorbike)

[Richard10002]

On 23/08/2023 at 21:06, MrshappyH said:

get away with 2 X 100ah.

I don't live on board but spend a few days/nights a week on board. I wouldn't even consider 200Ah of Lithium. I've got a nominal 535Ah of which I try and keep between 20% and 90% state of charge, so have about 375Ah to play with. March to September 400W of solar keep me going, only needing to give them a generator charge occasionally.  In winter, I generally find myself charging after a couple of days on board. At 60A my Honda EU10i takes about 5 hours to put 300Ah back in.

 

I don't have a washer or a dishwasher, but don't skimp on other home comforts.

[Tony1]

31 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Very glad you said that .. 😊. 

But engine noise will wake my 5 yr old at 8pm anyway ... So would need to be a quiet generator

 

It's worth explaining that running generators after 8pm is a bit of a hot button topic on the forum, because so many have had noise nuisance from gennies running nearby at all hours of the night. 

To even suggest running a generator (or engine) after 8pm will cause an angry mob to descend upon you, and is punishable by firing squad.

Followed by hanging, just to make sure. 

But joking aside, if you are going to regularly go cruising on CRT waters, its probably worth getting into the habit of not running your engine after 8pm anyway, even though you'll normally have no-one nearby.

On the odd night when someone does show up and moor within earshot (and bear in mind sound carries much further over waterways), at least you won't have to worry yourself that running your engine might annoy them, or cause any ill will. 

I might be a bit over cautious, but I think its a good idea to make sure your batteries are in shape and ready for the night by 7pm at the latest (unless you're away from the boat somewhere).

It's not so much of an issue in summer because the solar is flooding in all day and the batteries are always nearly full.

But in winter, if its already dark and you hit some kind of snag when you try to charge (e.g. a battery or connection problem, or if the engine just wont start, or even a blown fuse somewhere) at least you've still got an hour or two to before the 8pm engine deadline to make some emergency arrangements to get your batteries through the night.  

You might have time to find any engine problems, and you can do things like switch off the fridge or other power hungry devices, switch off a few lights, don't use the electric kettle (always have a gas kettle somewhere in reserve)- that kind of thing. If everything blows, you can sort out candles or something. 

But diagnosing charging problems and dealing with the associated hassles late in the evening is no fun at all, so if a charging fault is going to happen, you can at least make sure you know about it in the early evening, by doing the charging at an earlier time. 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tony1

[nicknorman]

30 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

In which case, most would probably take the "rule" more as guidance to minimise annoyance to others.

As far as I know there is no such rules on EA rivers (Thames, Great Ouse, Nene), or the independent navigation authorities like the Avon navigation trusts, while the National Trust on the Wey basically bans living aboard for the majority of boaters.

Pretty sure there are bylaws on the EA rivers that prohibit making a nuisance (by noise or whatever). Less specific than CRT’s 8-8 but on the other hand, bylaws are enforceable whereas CRT Ts&Cs are not.

[magnetman]

47 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Pretty sure there are bylaws on the EA rivers that prohibit making a nuisance (by noise or whatever). Less specific than CRT’s 8-8 but on the other hand, bylaws are enforceable whereas CRT Ts&Cs are not.

Byelaw 63 (m) on the Thames is interesting as it inadvertently (or possibly advertently) includes noise caused by electrical equipment. Generator? Alternator ? 

 

...Shall not...

"(m) use any radio television record player tape recorder or any other electrical equipment or any musical instrument resulting in the broadcasting or transmission of any noise speech or sound in such manner to give reasonable cause for annoyance to any person in upon or about the river or the banks or the towpaths thereof or adjacent land of the authority."

 

(my bold)

Edited August 25, 2023 by magnetman

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are having a boat built, it is an ideal time to have a quiet generator (water cooled & cacooned) installed - it will add some £10,000 to the price but what price (realtive) quiet ?

You should look to have a 1500rpm generator as they are much quieter than a 3000 rpm generator (these sound almost like a lawn mower, or motorbike)

Brilliant thanks 

[magnetman]

 

 

There is also 57. Based on the idea that moorings on the Thames are for 24hrs during the course of ordinary navigation..

 

 

57. Mooring, anchoring and vessels attached to moorings

a) The master or person in charge of any houseboat or launch who causes that houseboat or launch to be anchored moored or remain stationary during the course of ordinary navigation shall ensure that no annoyance be caused to any occupier of a riparian residence by reason of the loitering or delay of that houseboat or launch.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are having a boat built, it is an ideal time to have a quiet generator (water cooled & cacooned) installed - it will add some £10,000 to the price but what price (realtive) quiet ?

You should look to have a 1500rpm generator as they are much quieter than a 3000 rpm generator (these sound almost like a lawn mower, or motorbike)

But not a chance for us ! We are nearly at rock bottom from buying it ! 

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Byelaw 63 (m) on the Thames is interesting as it inadvertently (or possibly advertently) includes noise caused by electrical equipment. Generator? Alternator ? 

 

...Shall not...

"(m) use any radio television record player tape recorder or any other electrical equipment or any musical instrument resulting in the broadcasting or transmission of any noise speech or sound in such manner to give reasonable cause for annoyance to any person in upon or about the river or the banks or the towpaths thereof or adjacent land of the authority."

 

(my bold)

Will definitely apply to our daughters kareoke machine then 😉

[Tony1]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Byelaw 63 (m):

 

...Shall not use any radio television record player resulting in the broadcasting or transmission of any sound in such manner to give reasonable cause for annoyance...

 

 

Is this effectively banning the Bee Gees from being played anywhere on the Thames?

 

Remember that terrible quote about Nazi persecution: "First they took away the Bee Gees music, but I didn't protest because I still had working ears. Then they came for the Bob Dylan albums...."  

Dark times ahead, I fear. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tony1