Good News??

[Midnight]

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/new-programme-of-work-to-help-protect-the-nations-historic-waterways

 

Welcome news indeed but only if it happens. Forgive me for being sceptical but I remember that video with Richard Parry stood by the Leeds & Liverpool breach announcing the biggest ever winter maintenance program only for C&RT to cancel 12 or 13 of those essential maintenance projects. I know of one such cancelled project which wasn't even included in the following year's winter programme.

Well it sounds like good news but seeing is believing.

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Midnight

[BilgePump]

6 minutes ago, Midnight said:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/new-programme-of-work-to-help-protect-the-nations-historic-waterways

 

Welcome news indeed but only if it happens. Forgive me for being sceptical but I remember that video with Richard Parry stood by the Leeds & Liverpool breach announcing the biggest ever winter maintenance program only for C&RT to cancel 12 or 13 of those essential maintenance projects. I know of one such cancelled project which wasn't even included in the following year's winter programme.

Well it sounds like good news but seeing is believing.

 

 

 

A bit like political parties' manifestos. Full of grandiose promises to all but in the end it's mostly just hot air, fluff and wishful economics, so very little ends up actually being achieved.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Midnight said:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/new-programme-of-work-to-help-protect-the-nations-historic-waterways

 

Welcome news indeed but only if it happens. Forgive me for being sceptical but I remember that video with Richard Parry stood by the Leeds & Liverpool breach announcing the biggest ever winter maintenance program only for C&RT to cancel 12 or 13 of those essential maintenance projects. I know of one such cancelled project which wasn't even included in the following year's winter programme.

Well it sounds like good news but seeing is believing.

 

 

 

 

Sorta like the school report :

 

"They set themselves very low targets which they consistently fail to achieve".

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

A bit like political parties' manifestos. Full of grandiose promises to all but in the end it's mostly just hot air, fluff and wishful economics, so very little ends up actually being achieved.

 

Or a bit like people saying that smarter management and fewer blue signs will magically fix the canal problems -- all sizzle and no steak, like so much of what the government churns out... 😉

[dmr]

Isn't thiss just doing wot the government does? Are they just making an anouncement about the standard winter stoppage work and pretending that its new money???

[Midnight]

12 minutes ago, dmr said:

Isn't thiss just doing wot the government does? Are they just making an anouncement about the standard winter stoppage work and pretending that its new money???

Probably, but C&RT aren't the government. Maybe they've had a kick up the arse and are playing catchup. Those conditional KPIs are going to take some effort to meet. Maybe this is a start to smarter working? Maybe Mr Parry & Co have looked at all aspects of their remit and worked out what is 'essential' and what is 'nice to do'. That's what local authorities do and that's why there's no local authority blue signs 😉

 

And why does C&RT need a poet laureate Ian?

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Probably, but C&RT aren't the government. Maybe they've had a kick up the arse and are playing catchup. Those conditional KPIs are going to take some effort to meet. Maybe this is a start to smarter working? Maybe Mr Parry & Co have looked at all aspects of their remit and worked out what is 'essential' and what is 'nice to do'. That's what local authorities do and that's why there's no local authority blue signs 😉

 

And why does C&RT need a poet laureate Ian?

 

Was talking to a CRT bloke a couple of days ago and there are signs that CRT are doing some good thinking about making maintenance more sensible (and hopefully not just mindless cost cutting).

 

I am all in favour of a canal artist and poet, especially if they can be grant funded, but their role should be to keep alive and publicise the historic art and poetry of the canals rather than to invent new and unrelated stuff. There are a few very good people around who could take on these roles rather than getting in somebody we have never heard of.

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Was talking to a CRT bloke a couple of days ago and there are signs that CRT are doing some good thinking about making maintenance more sensible (and hopefully not just mindless cost cutting).

 

I am all in favour of a canal artist and poet, especially if they can be grant funded, but their role should be to keep alive and publicise the historic art and poetry of the canals rather than to invent new and unrelated stuff. There are a few very good people around who could take on these roles rather than getting in somebody we have never heard of.

I agree that a CRT poet laureate does sound like a bit of a waste of money -- but then you could say the same thing about the whole "Arts on the Waterways" programme, which of course in aimed at attracting the general public (that the government loves so much) not boaters, just like blue signs are...

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/announcing-britains-new-canal-laureate-2022-roy-mcfarlane

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/arts-and-culture-on-the-waterways

 

P.S. There are no local authority blue signs, because they're brown -- and there are *loads* of them all over the UK, they obviously think that these encourage tourists so are A Good Thing... 😉

Edited July 18, 2023 by IanD

[Midnight]

19 minutes ago, IanD said:

I agree that a CRT poet laureate does sound like a bit of a waste of money -- but then you could say the same thing about the whole "Arts on the Waterways" programme, which of course in aimed at attracting the general public (that the government loves so much) not boaters, just like blue signs are...

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/announcing-britains-new-canal-laureate-2022-roy-mcfarlane

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/arts-and-culture-on-the-waterways

 

P.S. There are no local authority blue signs, because they're brown -- and there are *loads* of them all over the UK, they obviously think that these encourage tourists so are A Good Thing... 😉

 Blimey we actually agree on something I'll buy the beer. Brown signs though are not that straight forward. When I was a tourism manager(admittedly 25 years ago) brown signs were paid for by the applicant. Sometimes local authority but often the tourist attraction themselves.
Now there's a idea Blue Signs paid for by local businesses - "Better by water - Better buy fish & chips from Nobby's"

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, IanD said:

P.S. There are no local authority blue signs, because they're brown -- and there are *loads* of them all over the UK, they obviously think that these encourage tourists so are A Good Thing... 😉

 

 

Unless you have been involved, you may not be aware that the site being 'advertised/promoted' on Brown signs has to be paid for by the 'attraction'.

 

We looked at having one and the cost was £,000s

 

In addition to the costs below you have the application (like PP) costs

 

Apply for brown tourist signs on roads that Highways England manage

 

Costs for design and installation

As the applicant, you will need to cover the cost of any agreed tourist signs. A single sign may cost £8,000 to £20,000 to design and install if sited on a single or dual carriageway, depending on the size of the sign. A single motorway sign may cost £17,000 to £40,000. Many design options are available; Highways England has provided these costs ranges give you an indi­ca­tion of your pos­si­ble outlay.

[Jon57]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Unless you have been involved, you may not be aware that the site being 'advertised/promoted' on Brown signs has to be paid for by the 'attraction'.

 

We looked at having one and the cost was £,000s

 

In addition to the costs below you have the application (like PP) costs

 

Apply for brown tourist signs on roads that Highways England manage

 

Costs for design and installation

As the applicant, you will need to cover the cost of any agreed tourist signs. A single sign may cost £8,000 to £20,000 to design and install if sited on a single or dual carriageway, depending on the size of the sign. A single motorway sign may cost £17,000 to £40,000. Many design options are available; Highways England has provided these costs ranges give you an indi­ca­tion of your pos­si­ble outlay.

A dumbed down version could work for CRT possibly. Locks sponsored by miracle seal. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Unless you have been involved, you may not be aware that the site being 'advertised/promoted' on Brown signs has to be paid for by the 'attraction'.

 

We looked at having one and the cost was £,000s

 

In addition to the costs below you have the application (like PP) costs

 

Apply for brown tourist signs on roads that Highways England manage

 

Costs for design and installation

As the applicant, you will need to cover the cost of any agreed tourist signs. A single sign may cost £8,000 to £20,000 to design and install if sited on a single or dual carriageway, depending on the size of the sign. A single motorway sign may cost £17,000 to £40,000. Many design options are available; Highways England has provided these costs ranges give you an indi­ca­tion of your pos­si­ble outlay.

 

I wasn't aware of that, but the principle remains -- signs (brown or blue) don't get installed (and paid for) just because somebody fancies it, they're there to attract people and encourage them to make use of whatever the "attraction" is.

 

For brown signs the purpose is to encourage tourists to visit whatever the attraction is, and local businesses/attractions pay for these to pull more people in.

 

For blue signs the purpose is to encourage people -- not boaters! -- to use the canals, and CART pay for these because getting the general public to do this is what the government wants them to do via KPIs.

 

Boaters whinging endlessly about CART blue signs (cost, how stupid and pointless they are...) are ignoring both this fact and that they are not the intended audience...

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

I wasn't aware of that, but the principle remains -- signs (brown or blue) don't get installed (and paid for) just because somebody fancies it, they're there to attract people and encourage them to make use of whatever the "attraction" is.

 

For brown signs the purpose is to encourage tourists to visit whatever the attraction is, and local businesses/attractions pay for these to pull more people in.

 

But they are 'nothing to do with' the local authority - the local authority are reactive to an application for (that takes an average of 9 months to process). The Local  Authority do not contact companies and say 'we can put up a brown sign to promote your business' The who thing is driven by the 'attraction' itself.

 

C&RT are just the opposite - they unilaterally decide to put up, pay for the design and installation of the Blue-Signs.

Maybe they could get sponsorship to at least cover the cost of each sign (thats what we did at the Golf Club, each Tee-Sign was sponsored by a local business).

[Higgs]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

Boaters whinging endlessly about CART blue signs (cost, how stupid and pointless they are...) are ignoring both this fact and that they are not the intended audience...

 

Well, let's hope they're being financed out of the pockets of those they're intended for. Then I'd completely ignore the cost.

 

 

[IanD]

39 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But they are 'nothing to do with' the local authority - the local authority are reactive to an application for (that takes an average of 9 months to process). The Local  Authority do not contact companies and say 'we can put up a brown sign to promote your business' The who thing is driven by the 'attraction' itself.

 

C&RT are just the opposite - they unilaterally decide to put up, pay for the design and installation of the Blue-Signs.

Maybe they could get sponsorship to at least cover the cost of each sign (thats what we did at the Golf Club, each Tee-Sign was sponsored by a local business).

Who is going to pay for a sign about a local walking trail, or about locks, or about canal history?

 

CART put them up because that's what their KPIs push them to do.

 

If you don't like that, tell the government to change them to something which benefits boaters not the public.

 

P.S. Good luck with that... 😉

[Jon57]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Who is going to pay for a sign about a local walking trail, or about locks, or about canal history?

 

CART put them up because that's what their KPIs push them to do.

 

If you don't like that, tell the government to change them to something which benefits boaters not the public.

 

P.S. Good luck with that... 😉

Dog bark woof. 👍

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, IanD said:

Who is going to pay for a sign about a local walking trail, or about locks, or about canal history?

 

The sign has an extra 6" band across the bottom -

 

Sponsored by :

 

Local Bike Shop

Local Chip shop / Chinese etc

Local Outdoor store (boots clothing etc)

Hardware shops

Insurance Cos

Laundertette

Butchers

 

etc etc

 

 

[Jon57]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The sign has an extra 6" band across the bottom -

 

Sponsored by :

 

Local Bike Shop

Local Chip shop / Chinese etc

Local Outdoor store (boots clothing etc)

Hardware shops

Insurance Cos

Laundertette

Butchers

 

etc etc

 

 

Missed off Elastoplast. Fabric plasters off the list.😬

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The sign has an extra 6" band across the bottom -

 

Sponsored by :

 

Local Bike Shop

Local Chip shop / Chinese etc

Local Outdoor store (boots clothing etc)

Hardware shops

Insurance Cos

Laundertette

Butchers

 

etc etc

 

 

Good luck trying to get any money for canal signs out of cash-strapped local businesses today... 😞

 

Anyway, they usually pay for brown signs because these bring tourists in to the town/attraction, who might spend money in their shops or businesses in the town/attraction.

 

Why would they pay for canal signs to get people onto the towpaths? AFAIK there are very few shops along them... 😉

Edited July 18, 2023 by IanD

[Ewan123]

I wonder how many of those (generally, not directed at people in this discussion) bemoaning blue signs would also complain about advertising being installed around locks/canals... I can't help but think there's a lot of overlap there. Spoiling the historic landscape etc.

 

I can't say I'd be keen to see advertising popping up everywhere either, but I would probably swallow that if the funds generated were of significant benefit. There's probably quite a bit of cash to be made from it in places like London where there are a lot of people using the towpaths.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Ewan123

[Guest]

Well local business around here seem quite happy to pay for advertising on signs on our local roundabouts.

 

So not quite such a stupid idea.

Roundabout outside our village.

 

 

[wandering snail]

25 minutes ago, M_JG said:

Well local business around here seem quite happy to pay for advertising on signs on our local roundabouts.

 

So not quite such a stupid idea.

Roundabout outside our village.

 

 

I wish I'd taken a photo of the many mole hills on a roundabout near us with an advert for the local molecatcher alongside them.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, M_JG said:

Well local business around here seem quite happy to pay for advertising on signs on our local roundabouts.

 

So not quite such a stupid idea.

Roundabout outside our village.

 

 

 

Same all around us.

[MtB]

9 hours ago, IanD said:

Good luck trying to get any money for canal signs out of cash-strapped local businesses today... 😞

 

 

Yes, better to try the local businesses awash with the stuff. 

 

Not all 'local businesses' are failing.