Boating etiquette

[nicknorman]

32 minutes ago, NB Alnwick said:

 

I am generally in agreement with the above, however this 'thumbs-up' signal is relatively new to me - largely because I am very rarely on the boat when locking up or down. Jane tells me, that when she is on the tiller, some people wait for a signal before operating the paddles and I guess that is OK. That said my own practise is to just get on with what needs to be done as soon as the boat is safely in the right place.

 

When boating single handed I never stay on the boat in locks preferring to get off and operate the locks myself but assistance from other boaters or volunteers is always most gratefully appreciated.

 

My original gripe was about the pointing hand signal that, at first, I thought might be an indication that the approaching boat intended to turn left or tie-up on the left. On our last trip I experienced it several times with the steerer of the approaching boat behaving like some sort of umpire. My mother always taught me that it was rude to point and I do think that this pointing gesture is unnecessary and extremely rude.

In my book not so much rude to point, as rude and arrogant to give orders (especially non-verbal ones) to strangers. They should get on with steering their boat and leave you to steer yours.

 

[Rob-M]

13 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

In my book not so much rude to point, as rude and arrogant to give orders (especially non-verbal ones) to strangers. They should get on with steering their boat and leave you to steer yours.

 

I do feel sometimes it is easier to signal to someone with a wave of the hand that you are happy to pass on the wrong side rather than they end up all over the place trying to manoeuvre to pass on the right.

[GUMPY]

10 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I do feel sometimes it is easier to signal to someone with a wave of the hand that you are happy to pass on the wrong side rather than they end up all over the place trying to manoeuvre to pass on the right.

I just wave a blue flag to let them know my intentions🤔

[NB Alnwick]

32 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I just wave a blue flag to let them know my intentions🤔

 

I guess one could hoist a couple of these!

 

 

[haggis]

I don't start to raIse or lower a paddle for another boat till I get an ok from the skipper that they are ready for this to be done and that they are happy for me to do it . Ok, folk like Nick get their boat into the lock  and into position quickly  but not everyone does and I prefer to wait till the skipper is happy . Knowing how Nick dislikes anyone helping I can just imagine his reaction if I just cracked up the paddle 😀

Some skippers want their boat right at the back of the lock, some want it at the front and some the middle and only they know when they are in their preferred position. I would rather wait for an ok than be responsible for a boat bashing gates.

Fortunately, the boaters we meet seem to appreciate this and it also  gives them the  opportunity to indicate half up etc.

It is their boat in the lock, they dictate what they want to happen 

[NB Alnwick]

6 minutes ago, haggis said:

I don't start to raIse or lower a paddle for another boat till I get an ok from the skipper that they are ready for this to be done and that they are happy for me to do it . Ok, folk like Nick get their boat into the lock  and into position quickly  but not everyone does and I prefer to wait till the skipper is happy . Knowing how Nick dislikes anyone helping I can just imagine his reaction if I just cracked up the paddle 😀

Some skippers want their boat right at the back of the lock, some want it at the front and some the middle and only they know when they are in their preferred position. I would rather wait for an ok than be responsible for a boat bashing gates.

Fortunately, the boaters we meet seem to appreciate this and it also  gives them the  opportunity to indicate half up etc.

It is their boat in the lock, they dictate what they want to happen 

 

Fair enough - if there is someone on the tiller or holding the rope then one would accept that they are in charge of the boat.

That is very different to someone on the bank or on another boat giving unwanted instructions!

[Midnight]

18 minutes ago, haggis said:

I don't start to raIse or lower a paddle for another boat till I get an ok from the skipper that they are ready for this to be done and that they are happy for me to do it . Ok, folk like Nick get their boat into the lock  and into position quickly  but not everyone does and I prefer to wait till the skipper is happy . Knowing how Nick dislikes anyone helping I can just imagine his reaction if I just cracked up the paddle 😀

Some skippers want their boat right at the back of the lock, some want it at the front and some the middle and only they know when they are in their preferred position. I would rather wait for an ok than be responsible for a boat bashing gates.

Fortunately, the boaters we meet seem to appreciate this and it also  gives them the  opportunity to indicate half up etc.

It is their boat in the lock, they dictate what they want to happen 

 

I do same so that the steerer is more likely to be confident I know what I'm doing. If I'm sharing a lock and the other crew are on the opposite paddle I do what they do. Mrs Midnight doesn't mind me whacking up a paddle but it's polite to be careful when sharing with strangers.

[haggis]

13 minutes ago, NB Alnwick said:

 

Fair enough - if there is someone on the tiller or holding the rope then one would accept that they are in charge of the boat.

That is very different to someone on the bank or on another boat giving unwanted instructions!

Yes, sorry! I was responding, rather belatedly, to the comments about the OK from the skipper on the boat in a lock :-).  When iain and I are boating, like most couples we know instictively what the other will do and the only time I would look for an ok would be when the depth of the lock made it impossible for me to see if the bows are in the required position. 

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

I don't start to raIse or lower a paddle for another boat till I get an ok from the skipper that they are ready for this to be done and that they are happy for me to do it . Ok, folk like Nick get their boat into the lock  and into position quickly  but not everyone does and I prefer to wait till the skipper is happy . Knowing how Nick dislikes anyone helping I can just imagine his reaction if I just cracked up the paddle 😀

Some skippers want their boat right at the back of the lock, some want it at the front and some the middle and only they know when they are in their preferred position. I would rather wait for an ok than be responsible for a boat bashing gates.

Fortunately, the boaters we meet seem to appreciate this and it also  gives them the  opportunity to indicate half up etc.

It is their boat in the lock, they dictate what they want to happen 

I have never said I dislike anyone helping. Always quite happy for boaters to help and we sometimes rope in small gongoozler children to help with lock gates etc. If you came along and cracked up the paddle, then presuming the gates were closed I’d be quite happy. If you stood there waiting for me to give you permission, in my head I be saying “just get on with it, would you, the gates are closed so of course I want the paddles up” whereas of course on my exterior would be planted a gracious smile and an upward pointing thumb.

 

No, I never object to people helping. I just object to the volockie who wants to take control, tell me how to do it, and not follow my instructions when I say “kindly raise the paddle fully”.

 

The problem with the thumb up thing is that it’s a new invention, people who were boating before it don’t do it (and plenty who started boating after it don’t do it either). So you can be standing there like a lemon at the paddle while the steerer is looking at the view, reading the paper, posting on CWDF on his ipad etc  - everything but looking at you. After a while he wonders why nothing is happening and then sees you standing to attention, and finally grudgingly gives a thumbs up whilst muttering under his breath. I know how he feels!

 

People who are into the thumbs up thing consider it to be very virtuous. Others don’t.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’ve always thought a thumbs up as a proper Brummie greeting. 
“Aright 👍”

 

[haggis]

I don't know how new an invention it is but ever since in my enthusiasm on my first ever canal cruise ( about 40 odd years ago ) I cracked up a top paddle in middlewich big lock and sent a boat careering across the lock I have always looked for some sort of indication that the skipper is ready. 

I was so embarrassed ( and so was Iain who had taught me how to work locks ) that it was a relief to be able to properly apologise later in the pub . 

Some thing you just never forget ! 😀

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I have never said I dislike anyone helping. Always quite happy for boaters to help and we sometimes rope in small gongoozler children to help with lock gates etc. If you came along and cracked up the paddle, then presuming the gates were closed I’d be quite happy. If you stood there waiting for me to give you permission, in my head I be saying “just get on with it, would you, the gates are closed so of course I want the paddles up” whereas of course on my exterior would be planted a gracious smile and an upward pointing thumb.

 

No, I never object to people helping. I just object to the volockie who wants to take control, tell me how to do it, and not follow my instructions when I say “kindly raise the paddle fully”.

 

The problem with the thumb up thing is that it’s a new invention, people who were boating before it don’t do it (and plenty who started boating after it don’t do it either). So you can be standing there like a lemon at the paddle while the steerer is looking at the view, reading the paper, posting on CWDF on his ipad etc  - everything but looking at you. After a while he wonders why nothing is happening and then sees you standing to attention, and finally grudgingly gives a thumbs up whilst muttering under his breath. I know how he feels!

 

People who are into the thumbs up thing consider it to be very virtuous. Others don’t.

As I usually sit at the back of a lock when going up I am often locking at the gates to make sure they are not swinging open so I'm not even looking towards the paddles.  Mrs-M knows to get on with it and to start raising paddles. Once the water has started and the gates aren't going to swing open I'll look forward to often see a volunteer stood waiting for a thumbs up.

[dixi188]

Different locks have different water flows.

With the narrow locks on the Oxford canal, and a lot of other narrow ones, when going up, I like to be against the top gate, so half a paddle for a few seconds to let the boat go back and then forward before lifting both paddles fully works for me. If some helpful person lifts a paddle fully the boat will go back a long way and then crash forward into the gate regardless of how much reverse power is used.

On the Grand Union, the big locks like Hatton and Stockton, I like to be at the back of the lock to one side and lift the paddle on the same side as the boat so that the water flows across the lock forward of the bow and then back to push the boat against the side of the lock. Once stable the other paddle can be raised. (Much easier if two boats are in the lock).

Going down, just lift both paddles straight away.

I like people helping, especially when I'm single handed, but I like them to take a lead from me.

My boat is 57ft.

Thats my tuppence,

Dixi.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

I don't know how new an invention it is but ever since in my enthusiasm on my first ever canal cruise ( about 40 odd years ago ) I cracked up a top paddle in middlewich big lock and sent a boat careering across the lock I have always looked for some sort of indication that the skipper is ready. 

I was so embarrassed ( and so was Iain who had taught me how to work locks ) that it was a relief to be able to properly apologise later in the pub . 

Some thing you just never forget ! 😀

My boating was mid 60s to late 70s, then 1990 to now. Somewhere between those 2 periods (a decade or so), the thumbs up thing was invented.

 

In you text above, a couple of things are worthy of comment. Firstly, if you sent a boat careering across the Big Lock then it probably wasn’t a result of the steerer not being ready, it was probably a result of opening the wrong paddle, or the right paddle but too much.  Note that I say steerer, not skipper. Just like in aviation, in the nautical world the person steering the boat is not necessarily the captain.

 

And secondly you say that you have always looked for some sort of indication that the skipper (sic) is ready. This of course is quite right, but one just has to look at the steerer to see whether they are flapping around with ropes, throttle, gears etc, or whether they are placidly waiting for the paddle operators to get on with it. Body language is much more communicative than thumbs.

[Guest]

Our system involved a simple non complicated method involving thumbs.

 

When I was at the paddles I would indicate with a thumbs up that I was ready to raise them.

 

Mrs M_JG would respond (if ready) by a reciprocal thumbs up. 

 

It worked for us.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, M_JG said:

Our system involved a simple non complicated method involving thumbs.

 

When I was at the paddles I would indicate with a thumbs up that I was ready to raise them.

 

Mrs M_JG would respond (if ready) by a reciprocal thumbs up. 

 

It worked for us.

It’s a great system - apart from some superfluous gesturing with thumbs.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

It’s a great system - apart from some superfluous gesturing with thumbs.

 

You boat your way we'll boat ours....

 

(No small furry animals were harmed in our thumb jesture routine).

 

[nicknorman]

25 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

You boat your way we'll boat ours....

 

(No small furry animals were harmed in our thumb jesture routine).

 

Of course. However this prevalence of thumbing doesn’t really comply with your above ideology. If the non-thumbing boaters encounter the thumbers, they just inwardly feel a little exasperated and wonder why people have to be so controlling and make such a meal of simple things. If the the thumbing boaters encounter the non-thumbers, there is screaming hysterics and shouting. It’s a kind of fascism, ie a move to force everyone to their way of thinking.

[Guest]

Just now, nicknorman said:

Of course. However this prevalence of thumbing doesn’t really comply with your above ideology. If the non-thumbing boaters encounter the thumbers, they just inwardly feel a little exasperated and wonder why people have to be so controlling and make such a meal of simple things. If the the thumbing boaters encounter the non-thumbers, there is screaming hysterics and shouting. It’s a kind of fascism, ie a move to force everyone to their way of thinking.

 

I couldnt care less what other boaters do or dont do.

 

Perhaps try the same approach?

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

I couldnt care less what other boaters do or dont do.

 

Perhaps try the same approach?

But the problem arises when the two shall meet. Although of course you could also be one of the new generation of boaters who stays with your boat whilst waiting for “your” lock, as opposed to the older generation where everyone helps everyone. In which case there is no problem other than sadness.

[Jon57]

9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Of course. However this prevalence of thumbing doesn’t really comply with your above ideology. If the non-thumbing boaters encounter the thumbers, they just inwardly feel a little exasperated and wonder why people have to be so controlling and make such a meal of simple things. If the the thumbing boaters encounter the non-thumbers, there is screaming hysterics and shouting. It’s a kind of fascism, ie a move to force everyone to their way of thinking.

👍

[Guest]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

But the problem arises when the two shall meet. Although of course you could also be one of the new generation of boaters who stays with your boat whilst waiting for “your” lock, as opposed to the older generation where everyone helps everyone. In which case there is no problem other than sadness.

 

Well you couldnt be more wrong.

Just now, Jon57 said:

👍

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

Well you couldnt be more wrong.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Well you couldn’t have made a less cogent post.
Well ok you possibly could have, that was not a challenge!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well you couldn’t have made a less cogent post.
Well ok you possibly could have, that was not a challenge!

 

Nick scores a 'gotcha'......

 

 

👍👍👍👍👍

[mark99]