AquaTrader

[Naartjie - Duck Hatch]

Some advice please.

We are Newbies on the hunt for a Live-aboard NB.

As funds are limited & and if we mess up we are literally sunk.

That said has anyone dealt with AquaTrader before.

 https://aqua-trader.co.uk/

 

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Naartjie said:

Some advice please.

We are Newbies on the hunt for a Live-aboard NB.

As funds are limited & and if we mess up we are literally sunk.

That said has anyone dealt with AquaTrader before.

 https://aqua-trader.co.uk/

 

Well, Companies House says they were founded in April 2023. The 3 directors are all under 25. So you are not buying into any sort of pedigree. I’d be careful. I would say that if you want to buy a live aboard NB, avoid doing so in London.

[Naartjie - Duck Hatch]

Thanks ..London is now off the list!

We are currently looking at NBs in Wiltshire & will then work our way North to end up in Leeds

[MtB]

Changed my mind in the light of the company director(s) turning up here and explaining some background.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by MtB
Edit to remove a stray worm.

[nicknorman]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

On the other hand they appear to be nothing more than used boat salesmen, so pedigree or not, they have little influence on build quality of what they are selling.

 

More likely they get their stock by re-advertising boats already on the market, and/or by over-valuing in the same way as estate agent do in order to get the instruction. 

 

Remember the estate agent mantra taught to all 18 year old trainee spivs in their cheap suits... "First get the instruction, then get the reduction". 

 

the devil would be in the detail of what happens to money paid over for the purchase of a boat. Probably not paid directly to the seller, but to the agent acting as intermediary.

[MtB]

Just now, nicknorman said:

the devil would be in the detail of what happens to money paid over for the purchase of a boat. Probably not paid directly to the seller, but to the agent acting as intermediary.

 

Ah yes, there is that. 

 

Kind of collect full payment for the first boat sale, catch the next helicopter to Barbados, let the one-month-old company fold you mean?

 

 

 

And Jeez, what a load of ol' cobblers on the "About Us" page, for a two-month-old campany!! 

 

https://aqua-trader.co.uk/about-us/

 

[Peanut]

AquaTrader Group
Studio 15
Trinity Buoy Wharf
London

 

From, Trinity Buoy Wharf:

 

"Trinity Buoy Wharf is a place devoted to creative and arts activity on the River Thames in London's Docklands."

 

"Workpace at Trinity Buoy Wharf"

 

"Our studio spaces range from 200sq.ft to over a 1,000 sq.ft in both modern and historic buildings. We're committed to the growth of the arts and creative industries and willing to negotiate studio prices for artists. "

[ditchcrawler]

They have lots of boats for sale

[Hudds Lad]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They have lots of boats for sale

On checking a few, all are listed on the Duck at the same price, all as private listings with no mention of “AquaTrader” 🤔

[MtB]

Deleted.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by MtB

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

On checking a few, all are listed on the Duck at the same price, all as private listings with no mention of “AquaTrader” 🤔

I thought that may have been the case, I wonder what they would do if you ask to view one or if the owners know they are advertising them.

Edited June 6, 2023 by ditchcrawler

[Hudds Lad]

As an example;

 

https://aqua-trader.co.uk/listings/cartref-68ft-collingwood-widebeam/

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/collingwood-eurocruiser-for-sale/732683

 

https://aqua-trader.co.uk/listings/rumspringa-61ft-semi-traditional-narrowboat/

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/hudson-61-semi-trad-for-sale/731339

 

Is it entirely a con, or are they positioning as a new Apollo Duck?

[David Mack]

A quick look at the first one suggests the description is the same, as is the contact phone number. So they look to be genuine brokers, trading under their own name on their website but appearing as an anonymous seller on the duck, giving the impression they are a private seller when they are actually a business.

[enigmatic]

I assume they're going for the Great Haywood "no premises but we'll drive down to wherever the boat is to open it up for you, or tell you we've already sold it but you should look at a different boat instead" brokerage model

 

Either way, the reputation of the broker is fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

 

You do your own checks on the boat, you send your money when you've satisfied yourself about the boat's condition, your access to it and that the registration is being transferred to your name, and frankly a limited company with access to a lot of boats is a lot less likely to be doing the dirty than a "private seller" on Gumtree (and even there you're probably in the clear if there's an actual boat involved, and not just a "please send me aa deposit via Paypal so I know you are serious and then I will show you my definitely real boat, honest")

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Either way, the reputation of the broker is fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

 

I'd question you on that .......................................

 

 

A boat salesman was jailed for four years after netting £480,000 by cheating customers out of their vessels.

 

Jailed boat salesman cheated customers out of half a million pounds - Nottinghamshire Live (nottinghampost.com)

 

Takes the money and neither the seller or the buyer get the boat, and he then sells it 'again'.

 

 

[enigmatic]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd question you on that .......................................

 

 

A boat salesman was jailed for four years after netting £480,000 by cheating customers out of their vessels.

 

Jailed boat salesman cheated customers out of half a million pounds - Nottinghamshire Live (nottinghampost.com)

 

Takes the money and neither the seller or the buyer get the boat, and he then sells it 'again'.

 

 

 

I fee like this emphasises my point. Rare example of people getting screwed over for fees by a broker (nine years ago) and it was an established bricks an mortar business with a solid trading history - the sort of place you'd skip over all sorts of online ads to buy from if you focused on broker reputation.

 

Much more important to pick the right boat than the right broker.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by enigmatic

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 

I fee like this emphasises my point. Rare example of people getting screwed over for fees by a broker (nine years ago) and it was an established bricks an mortar business with a solid trading history - the sort of place you'd skip over all sorts of online ads to buy from if you focused on broker reputation.

 

Much more important to pick the right boat than the right broker.

 

 

Or you pick the 'right boat' pay for it and then find that the broker has already sold it and you lose your money - 'wrong broker'.

 

Another example of why you should pay cash and 'take it away' with you.

[Tracy D'arth]

The company has 3 directors, all at the same company address, 24 or 25 years old.  Company is only just over 1 month old.

Deeply suspicious.

 

Not a company I would like to deal with at present.

 

3 officers / 0 resignations

FREEMAN, Noam Michael Yerach

Correspondence address

Studio J, Container City 2, Trinity Buoy Wharf, London, United Kingdom, E14 0JW

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

May 1998

Appointed on

12 April 2023

Nationality

English

Country of residence

England

Occupation

Company Director

 

 

GOLDING, Max Andrew

Correspondence address

Studio J, Container City 2, Trinity Buoy Wharf, London, United Kingdom, E14 0JW

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

November 1999

Appointed on

12 April 2023

Nationality

English

Country of residence

England

Occupation

Company Director

 

 

NORTH, Joshua Darren

Correspondence address

Studio J, Container City 2, Trinity Buoy Wharf, London, United Kingdom, E14 0JW

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

November 1999

Appointed on

12 April 2023

Nationality

English

Country of residence

England

Occupation

Company Director

Mr Freeman.

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/people/30778678-mr-noam-michael-yerach-freeman

 

I presume Mr Freeman is Jewish.

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Or you pick the 'right boat' pay for it and then find that the broker has already sold it and you lose your money - 'wrong broker'.

 

Another example of why you should pay cash and 'take it away' with you.

 

There's absolutely nothing stopping you from making a bank transfer whilst sat next to the boat ready to take it away with any brokerage or private seller, which is an entirely separate point to it being fairly pointless to make decisions on whether to look at a boat based on how established the brokerage is. A quick forum search of "Nottingham Boat Sales" finds two topics on that company from around the period the bloke was stealing people's money, both with replies suggesting it was a decent operation they'd bought or sold boats from in the past. 

 

and if I was worried the broker had secretly sold the boat to multiple people, the very last thing I'd want to do is pay for it with a holdall of untraceable cash the dodgy broker can pretend he never received!

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

There's absolutely nothing stopping you from making a bank transfer whilst sat next to the boat ready to take it away

 

 

I seem to recall that my bank had a maximum BACS transfer of £25,000 per day - I'm not going to be sat in a brokers yard for 4 days transfering 'dribs and drabs' if buying a £100k boat.

 

You can of course use CHAPs which allows you up to £250.000 per day, but that has to be done 'in Branch', not sat in a boat yard & via the internet.

[enigmatic]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I seem to recall that my bank had a maximum BACS transfer of £25,000 per day - I'm not going to be sat in a brokers yard for 4 days transfering 'dribs and drabs' if buying a £100k boat.

 

You can of course use CHAPs which allows you up to £250.000 per day, but that has to be done 'in Branch', not sat in a boat yard & via the internet.

I can't speak for your bank, but I paid for my boat in two instalments sent a couple of minutes apart to evade the 25k transaction size limit.

 

(I did notify them in advance that I would be making the transfer, and I did have to answer a couple of security questions before the second one went through, but I imagine it'd have been more painful to get them to hand the majority of the contents of that account over in banknotes)

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by enigmatic

[Ewan123]

17 hours ago, Naartjie said:

Thanks ..London is now off the list!

We are currently looking at NBs in Wiltshire & will then work our way North to end up in Leeds

I wouldn't strike London off the list... we bought our boat in London and it's great. It may have been slightly higher priced than up north but not all that much I don't think. As there are so many boats in London, and there seems to be some trend of people living on them for 2/3 years before moving away, a sizeable proportion of boats for sale are probably in or near London.

[Hudds Lad]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I seem to recall that my bank had a maximum BACS transfer of £25,000 per day - I'm not going to be sat in a brokers yard for 4 days transfering 'dribs and drabs' if buying a £100k boat.

 

You can of course use CHAPs which allows you up to £250.000 per day, but that has to be done 'in Branch', not sat in a boat yard & via the internet.

Turns out ours is £30k per day, despite ringing the bank and explaining we wanted to transfer a large sum and being assured it was no problem at all. Thankfully the sellers were understanding as we rang family to transfer the balance. Never trust bank call centre muppets.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The company has 3 directors, all at the same company address, 24 or 25 years old.  Company is only just over 1 month old.

Deeply suspicious.

 

Not a company I would like to deal with at present.

 

3 officers / 0 resignations

FREEMAN, Noam Michael Yerach

Correspondence address

Studio J, Container City 2, Trinity Buoy Wharf, London, United Kingdom, E14 0JW

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

May 1998

Appointed on

12 April 2023

Nationality

English

Country of residence

England

Occupation

Company Director

 

 

GOLDING, Max Andrew

Correspondence address

Studio J, Container City 2, Trinity Buoy Wharf, London, United Kingdom, E14 0JW

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

November 1999

Appointed on

12 April 2023

Nationality

English

Country of residence

England

Occupation

Company Director

 

 

NORTH, Joshua Darren

Correspondence address

Studio J, Container City 2, Trinity Buoy Wharf, London, United Kingdom, E14 0JW

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

November 1999

Appointed on

12 April 2023

Nationality

English

Country of residence

England

Occupation

Company Director

Mr Freeman.

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/people/30778678-mr-noam-michael-yerach-freeman

 

I presume Mr Freeman is Jewish.

And for what it's worth, the three directors each own 33% of the company with the remaining 1% held by one Rachel Higgs (at a different address).

Edited June 6, 2023 by David Mack

[AquaTrader]

Hello,

Thanks for everyones concern, a customer has brought this to our attention that there may be a few questions people may like clarification on:

 

Yes we are young to establish a company however this is because we have all been boating for many years and were fed up of brokers making us sign contracts to sell our boats with them and charge us 8% to do so. Therefore, we thought we could do better than this and not make people sign contracts and only charge c.3%. This explains why we have so many boats signed up so quickly. This also explains why you see private listings on Apolloduck that are also on our website as we allow people to sell themselves and we will also sell at the same price and only charge them if we find the buyer. Therefore, our prices are not more expensive.   

All cash is paid directly to the seller from the customer we dont hold any money. We are located at trinity buoy wharf, home to many other boating businesses such as London power boat school and the Thames Clippers HQ.

Yes Mr Freeman is Jewish but i am not entirely not sure on the relevance and hope this wouldn't mean someone would not use our services due to the religion of a Company Director.

Ultimately, we were trading before becoming a limited company as this is when things started to take of for us. We were previously operating as a partnership with unlimited liability, only recently incorporating as an Ltd.

This is 3 young directors trying to establish themselves in the market whilst also making things better for boaters like we all are.

If anyone would like us to help with their search, answer any more questions or simply wants to pop in and say hi, please do feel free to visit us at Trinity Buoy Wharf or email us at enquiries[at]aqua-trader.co.uk.

If you have any suggestions then please do let us know. Hope this answers everyones questions.

 

All the best, AquaTrader team!

 

https://aqua-trader.co.uk