Blown gasket and 1 mile and a flight from a marina

[howardang]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think both can be done simultaneously....

 

 

 

Aint that the truth!

 

Howard

[MtB]

Just now, IanD said:

They can, and some people do. Others do not, and they're the ones that drive newbies away... 😞

 

Without reviewing how this thread unfolded, ISTR everyone contributing rather helpfully and the OP getting shirty with the replies. Rather than the other way around. 

 

 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Without reviewing how this thread unfolded, ISTR everyone contributing rather helpfully and the OP getting shirty with the replies. Rather than the other way around. 

 

 

That's true in this case. More often it's newbie naivety meets "old hand" sarcasm, with predictable outcome...

 

It doesn't cost anything to be nicer to less knowledgeable people, any more than saying "thank you" does. Some people just don't seem to like doing it though... 😞

Edited April 4, 2023 by IanD

[MtB]

1 minute ago, howardang said:

Aint that the truth!

 

Howard

 

 

In fact I'd say it is quite difficult to reply to a post asking for help without 'flaunting superior knowledge' (as Ian termed it). 

 

[IanD]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

In fact I'd say it is quite difficult to reply to a post asking for help without 'flaunting superior knowledge' (as Ian termed it). 

 

It's not what you say, it's the way that you say it... 😉

 

("you" is not personal here, I'm from Yorkshire so I refuse to say "one"...)

[MtB]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

It's not what you say, it's the way that you say it... 😉

 

("you" is not personal here, I'm from Yorkshire so I refuse to say "one"...)

 

My condolences. We all have our crosses to bear.

 

Oops missed the smiley

[GUMPY]

Interesting way he is holding the angle grinder in his company profile picture 😱

Hardly a firm grip on the body of it.

Unless it's got a very long body

Edited April 4, 2023 by Loddon

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My condolences. We all have our crosses to bear.

 

Oops missed the smiley

Could be worse, could be Lancashire... 😉

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

Could be worse, could be Lancashire... 😉

 

 

Good point well made!! 

 

 

[Athy]

24 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I think you're wearing rose-tinted spectacles -- responses to newbies (not from you!) are quite often aggressive and sometimes demeaning,

I do't think so.. Certainly I make a pointb of welcoming a new member if I spot one, as much because I'm a long-standing member as because I'm a moddy; but I'm by no means unique in doing so: a number of established membera extend a similar courtesy, which is pleasant to see.

   Aggressive responses don't come until a bit later, when there's something to respond to - which, lest we forget, may occasionally include aggressive posting by the new member.            

[___]

33 minutes ago, Athy said:

What might that be? All of us who read the topic?

New members are always welcomed. Some fit in well and become long-term contributors, others fall by the wayside for a variety of reasons.

Remember, we were all new members once.

Those that feed them.

 

An element of @MtB’s argument is that one poor behaviour justifies another. It doesn’t.

 

I agree with @IanD that the forum isn’t actually welcoming. I don’t doubt it wishes to be and it certainly doesn’t set out to be actively unwelcoming but I think it can be as a consequence of the very loose way in which it is managed.

 

In this instance I think the OP got riled by being drawn into a discussion about the engine problems rather than the assistance that they requested. I’m sure that was done in good faith but even long standing posters can have their threads drawn off topic from the outset and it is annoying. So it absolutely is unwelcoming to a new poster.

 

Ask yourself why this kind of thread degradation with new posters happens on such a regular basis.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Athy said:

I do't think so.. Certainly I make a pointb of welcoming a new member if I spot one, as much because I'm a long-standing member as because I'm a moddy; but I'm by no means unique in doing so: a number of established membera extend a similar courtesy, which is pleasant to see.

   Aggressive responses don't come until a bit later, when there's something to respond to - which, lest we forget, may occasionally include aggressive posting by the new member.            

 

As in this case, but in many others it's just naivety and an understandable adverse reaction to being talked down to like an idiot by some long-standing members. Not all, there are helpful ones too, but the negative posts tend to get the biggest reaction -- which may of course be the intention of some posters... 😉

 

I'm not going to name names, but a search through the many threads where this has happened turns up the same few over and over again...

Edited April 4, 2023 by IanD

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

I do't think so.. Certainly I make a pointb of welcoming a new member if I spot one, as much because I'm a long-standing member as because I'm a moddy; but I'm by no means unique in doing so: a number of established membera extend a similar courtesy, which is pleasant to see.

   Aggressive responses don't come until a bit later, when there's something to respond to - which, lest we forget, may occasionally include aggressive posting by the new member.            

 

 

The thing about this problem is that when an OP gets aggressive and nasty (as in this case), Team Mod tend to delete those posts leaving the emotive (but generally rule-compliant) responses still on view. This gives a distorted impression of proceedings to anyone who didn't follow the thread as it developed. This thread is an excellent example.

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

In fact I'd say it is quite difficult to reply to a post asking for help without 'flaunting superior knowledge' (as Ian termed it). 

 

In this case, the help asked for was for a tow. What then happened was that a stack of people piled on advising that the engineer in whom the guy appeared to have some confidence was first wrong, and then trying to pull a fast one. Any time the OP tried to suggest that he did actually know a bit about what he was talking about (which of course he may well do - he may have been building his own bike at the age of twelve), he got told he didn't. He then, not entirely suprisingly, replied in kind and, having already said he wasn't used to forums behaviour, may have gone sluightly over the top, though not as far as others have on here previously. Subsequently he was attacked for not accepting the offer of a tow on a day when he has already said  he couldn't get to the boat.

Following him leaving the thread and the forum, for some reason some people seemed to consider it necesary to do a bit of stalking and find some more reasons to have a laugh, possibly at the wrong person, but who knows? That, as has been said earlier, does seem a little over the top even for some of the political forum posters on here, and slightly sad behaviour.

Give it a rest. Grow up.

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

The thing about this problem is that when an OP gets aggressive and nasty (as in this case), Team Mod tend to delete those posts leaving the emotive (but generally rule-compliant) responses still on view. This gives a distorted impression of proceedings to anyone who didn't follow the thread as it developed. This thread is an excellent example.

 

 

Rubbish. I read the entire thread, before any posts were removed. There are some right delicate flowers on here if anything said in this thread, online, upset their sensibilities.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The thing about this problem is that when an OP gets aggressive and nasty (as in this case), Team Mod tend to delete those posts leaving the emotive (but generally rule-compliant) responses still on view. This gives a distorted impression of proceedings to anyone who didn't follow the thread as it developed. This thread is an excellent example.

 

 

It is, but there are many others where the aggression/belittling has come from responses not the OP, they then get annoyed and snipe back, and it all goes pear-shaped.

 

There's no need to talk down to newbies and treat them as idiots, which some people seem to take delight in doing -- yes they don't know much, that's why they ask questions, even if we've seen the same ones many times before this is no reason to be rude to them.

 

And then gloating after they've "successfully" been driven off is just juvenile... 😞

[Tony Brooks]

On 01/04/2023 at 22:05, JollyWonker said:

I'm a chartered Engineer and not stupid by any stretch, although ironically deal with almost every discipline other than engines until we picked her up in the summer. 

 

This is what the OP said, so he admits engines may be outside his detailed knowledge

 

8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Any time the OP tried to suggest that he did actually know a bit about what he was talking about (which of course he may well do - he may have been building his own bike at the age of twelve), he got told he didn't.

 

So he admitted engines were his "weak" area, so are you suggesting that we ignore what a poster says about themselves? Especially when the information given only seems to make any sort of sense in the context of an intentional or unintentional rip off.

 

If anyone thinks that is an erroneous view, then perhaps they can explain how the information given does make sense. As a direct challenge, can you explain how air being sucked in around the head gasket gets into the fuel system? I took time and trouble to try to explain to the OP what might be wrong and why the diagnosis did not make sense, I also explained a few things that were worth checking. Doing that MIGHT, and I only say might, have got them going under their own power.

 

However, the OP waved the Chartered Engineer flag, apparently to justify his faith in the diagnosis rather than discuss why he was correct and I was wrong. I countered with my own engineering qualification, so he could see I   probably had some depth in the subject. At no time did he engage with the discussion about his problem, and instead got very rude.

 

He asked for help and although such help as I felt I could give did not extend to a two, I did my best. It is to be noted that even when he was offered a tow, he seemed to reject it because time wise it did not suit him. He never seemed to put himself out to avail himself of any help offered.

 

He seems an entitled, self-centred piece of work to me.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

It is, but there are many others where the aggression/belittling has come from responses not the OP, they then get annoyed and snipe back, and it all goes pear-shaped.

 

There's no need to talk down to newbies and treat them as idiots, which some people seem to take delight in doing -- yes they don't know much, that's why they ask questions, even if we've seen the same ones many times before this is no reason to be rude to them.

 

And then gloating after they've "successfully" been driven off is just juvenile... 😞

 

 

All true, but here we are discussing how this particular thread went so wrong I thought, rather than others where yes I agree, the belittling started with members here doing it. With this thread, the OP started belittling Tony Brooks mainly, and never let up. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

All true, but here we are discussing how this particular thread went so wrong I thought, rather than others where yes I agree, the belittling started with members here doing it. With this thread, the OP started belittling Tony Brooks mainly, and never let up. 

 

 

 

That I can put up, with, but will respond, I just hope I was not as rude as he was.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

the very loose way in which it is managed.

 

 

Could you expand on that allegation, please?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

Could you expand on that allegation, please?

 

I'd have thought it self-evident rather than an 'allegation'. 

 

Just look at how this thread unfolded to see how 'loosely' the forum is managed. Sharper management would have had it under control in a flash with a few mod posts. But as it is, when members here report posts we are as likely to be told we a wrong as for the rules set to be applied. 

 

So we learn not to bother reporting except for extreme breaches. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Without reviewing how this thread unfolded, ISTR everyone contributing rather helpfully and the OP getting shirty with the replies. Rather than the other way around. 

 

 

That I think was because he wanted a tow, not how to fix the engine.

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'd have thought it self-evident rather than an 'allegation'. 

 

Just look at how this thread unfolded to see how 'loosely' the forum is managed. Sharper management would have had it under control in a flash.

 

 

Offending posts were removed (as you pointed out earlier, we tend not to remove those which don't breach the rules. Dictatorial management might have acted more severely- if you think back a few years, there was some of it about, and it wasn't pleasant (I was not yet a moddy  then,)). I don't think that's what most members want. Light moderation, which allows topics to flow and members to express themselves, is surely what most people want.

 

Oh, and while the "we" as in "you" may report only extreme breaches, there are plenty of "wes" who bring lesser ones to our attention, for which we are grateful. These are assessed on their merits, with some being acted upon and others not.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Those that feed them.

 

An element of @MtB’s argument is that one poor behaviour justifies another. It doesn’t.

 

I agree with @IanD that the forum isn’t actually welcoming. I don’t doubt it wishes to be and it certainly doesn’t set out to be actively unwelcoming but I think it can be as a consequence of the very loose way in which it is managed.

 

In this instance I think the OP got riled by being drawn into a discussion about the engine problems rather than the assistance that they requested. I’m sure that was done in good faith but even long standing posters can have their threads drawn off topic from the outset and it is annoying. So it absolutely is unwelcoming to a new poster.

 

Ask yourself why this kind of thread degradation with new posters happens on such a regular basis.

The main reason why the first response to a  first time poster is because more information is needed to determine the exact problem.

Most new posters have limited experience and may well diagnose one problem wrongly. They can get in a strop when they ask an aparently simple question and are then asked to provide more information because they think they have provided enough already.

In this instance he threw several balls in the air and it did appear to me that the diagnosis required the boat to go to the boatyard.

He rather made an entrance to the forum, so I can't blame the forumites for lack of tlc in this instance.

Edited April 4, 2023 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think the main reason why first time poster threads don't answer the question is because more information is needed to determine the exact problem. Most posters have limited experience and may well diagnose one problem wrongly. They can get in a strop when they ask an aparently simple question and are then asked to provide more information because they think they have provided TV enough already.

In this instance he threw several balls in the air and it did appear to me that the diagnosis required the boat to go to the boatyard.

He only wanted a tow, he didn't want to fault find his engine. he got the answer to ask passing boaters if they could help. 

[Peugeot 106]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Interesting way he is holding the angle grinder in his company profile picture 😱

Hardly a firm grip on the body of it.

Unless it's got a very long body

I once got a drill caught in a scarf and it climbed up to my neck and gave me a real fright.  It may not end so happily with  bits of string round the neck and a grinder at full speed.......