C&RT License Survey

[JemShaun]

I must admit that the comment Magnetman added about CCers being outlawed is spot on.  I will be CCing and will do so within the guidelines 

[Chewbacka]

4 minutes ago, Midnight said:

The majority of boats have a home mooring and the license fee increase will be 10% or so - many, I believe, will just grumble but swallow it and consider it's still good value (except of course those of us from Yorkshire 😆). This is the group where numbers may reduce in response to a higher fee, but as mentioned these boats will be resold, some to CCers.

 

Of the 20% of boats without a home mooring generally the owners live aboard so won't really have much option (other than to become unlicensed  and risk enforcement). Some may opt for a mooring most won't. I suspect C&RT see this group as a cash cow rather than trying to use the price hike to encourage CMers to take a mooring. 

 

If the CC licence doubles then I doubt CRT care if CMers take a home mooring or not, as CRT will either get the extra money via the licence fee or from the mooring fee, either be having a CRT mooring or a marina where the marina pays crt for the connection to the canal.  Once marinas fill up, CRT can up the connection charge.

[Naartjie - Duck Hatch]

Just a question as a Newbie. 

If the continuous cruisers surcharge is implemented. Would they then not be paying extra because of their unrestricted use of the system & its facilities. 

If so would other Boaters then be allowed only limited access/use of the canal system or do they have the same user rights as the continuous cruisers. 

 

 

[JemShaun]

That is a very fair question which will be met with much resistance 

[magnetman]

This is where the toll system would work. Charge by time spent on waterway regardless of what you are doing with the boat. 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If the CC licence doubles then I doubt CRT care if CMers take a home mooring or not, as CRT will either get the extra money via the licence fee or from the mooring fee, either be having a CRT mooring or a marina where the marina pays crt for the connection to the canal.  Once marinas fill up, CRT can up the connection charge.

 

I suspect that CART have two reasons for proposing a CC surcharge -- one is simply to raise more money (which they desperately need), the second is that they know that so many CMers are flouting the CC rules (which CART have singularly failed to enforce -- and have no prospect of doing so) and are screwing up canal access for the more law-abiding boaters that they want to try and use pricing to get them to find and pay for a home mooring.

 

The first one is really the government's fault, the second one is partly down to CART failing to get a grip on CMers (who are in the end the culprits) -- but having got to where we are today, it's difficult to see how else CART can try and fix this particular problem... 😞

 

The really sad consequence is that the boaters who will suffer as a result through no fault of their own are the genuine CCers for who the category was intended when it was introduced... 😞

[magnetman]

system to be split into about 48 different parts. 

[Rambling Boater]

20 minutes ago, IanD said:

As far as "picking on" fat boats and people without a home mooring, this is almost certainly what the majority of boaters want --

 

It might be what a few of you want on here, but in my experience, it is only a few out on the cut who seem to have 'an attitude'. Most boaters believe in 'live and let live'.

 

I have never denied that p takers spoil it for the majority. Sadly that's part of life.

 

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

This is where the toll system would work. Charge by time spent on waterway regardless of what you are doing with the boat. 

Good idea -- all that needs is a lot of extra CART employees to do the tracking/checking/enforcement (who all have to be paid), and/or full-time GPS surveillance of every boat, or "boat reg plates" and a canal-wide ANPR system like the roads have got.

 

It's all completely impractical, even if it sounds like a great idea at first sight... 😞

 

3 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

It might be what a few of you want on here, but in my experience, it is only a few out on the cut who seem to have 'an attitude'. Most boaters believe in 'live and let live'.

 

I have never denied that p takers spoil it for the majority. Sadly that's part of life.

 

 

What a few people on here want doesn't matter -- but if the majority of 35000 boaters vote for it in the consultation, isn't that what *they* want?

 

Most boaters might well believe in "live and let live" *until* it hits them in the pocket personally -- at which point they'll almost certainly decide that the p-takers should pay, not them...

Edited February 25, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

Good idea -- all that needs is a lot of extra CART employees to do the tracking/checking/enforcement 

Volunteers, give them a bit of power and they will be queuing up to do it for free

[JemShaun]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

Good idea -- all that needs is a lot of extra CART employees to do the tracking/checking/enforcement (who all have to be paid), and/or full-time GPS surveillance of every boat, or "boat reg plates" and a canal-wide ANPR system like the roads have got.

 

It's all completely impractical, even if it sounds like a great idea at first sight... 😞

 

 

What a few people on here want doesn't matter -- but if the majority of 35000 boaters vote for it in the consultation, isn't that what *they* want?

 

Most boaters might well believe in "live and let live" *until* it hits them in the pocket personally -- at which point they'll almost certainly decide that the p-takers should pay, not them...

ITS NOT A VOTE 

[Rambling Boater]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Good idea -- all that needs is a lot of extra CART employees to do the tracking/checking/enforcement (who all have to be paid), and/or full-time GPS surveillance of every boat, or "boat reg plates" and a canal-wide ANPR system like the roads have got.

 

It's all completely impractical, even if it sounds like a great idea at first sight... 😞

The UK waterways are one of the last microcosms of a world everyone would like to live in. One where everyone waves at eachother and tries to get on.

 

It would be a shame to see it disappear due to a few p takers and our obsession with 'progress' and 'control'.

[JemShaun]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

Good idea -- all that needs is a lot of extra CART employees to do the tracking/checking/enforcement (who all have to be paid), and/or full-time GPS surveillance of every boat, or "boat reg plates" and a canal-wide ANPR system like the roads have got.

 

It's all completely impractical, even if it sounds like a great idea at first sight... 😞

 

 

What a few people on here want doesn't matter -- but if the majority of 35000 boaters vote for it in the consultation, isn't that what *they* want?

 

Most boaters might well believe in "live and let live" *until* it hits them in the pocket personally -- at which point they'll almost certainly decide that the p-takers should pay, not them...

ITS NOT A VOTE

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, JemShaun said:

We shall be back on the water as liveaboards within the next 4 month ( Mrs retires April)  We will be CCers as this is what we have chosen to do. I have done the permanent mooring side of canal life when I last lived on the Macc.  

 

I would gladly pay more for a CC licence if that was what we had to do ( I may not entirely agree with it) However there seems to be some sort of divide going on within the boating world at the moment, and maybe this divide will play into the hands of the CRT? 

We don't really care how big a boat you have or how often its on the cut, we care about us and the way we choose to live. Until we know for sure what outcome of said survey is, we shall continue with our plans 

 Out in the real world away from here (the forum) there’s a much more mellow experience. I think anyone spending most of their time boating would agree?

I’ve not had a face to face experience of any resentment from other ‘types’ of boaters.

The odd issues at locks but that’s a different story.

Generally we swop experiences and lots wish they were out all year too.

Undoubtably there are some who perceive, relish and try to create a divide but I personally don’t feel it’s like that out there on the cut. 

 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Volunteers, give them a bit of power and they will be queuing up to do it for free

Ooh, lots of jobsworths in peaked caps wielding power over other boaters -- an ideal situation for the kind of people who'd queue up to do it... 😞

 

https://youtu.be/fz44_Sp0K8A

 

5 minutes ago, JemShaun said:

ITS NOT A VOTE 

<sigh> read the dictionary, please...

 

Did you vote in the Brexit referendum? According to you (and others), that wasn't a vote, so what did you actually do when you ticked the "yes" or "no" box? It wasn't binding, just like the CART consultation... 😉

 

How is this any different to CART asking "Do you think license fee rises should be applied across-the board or unequally?" and you tick "yes" or "no" -- or any of the similar questions?

Edited February 25, 2023 by IanD

[George and Dragon]

31 minutes ago, JemShaun said:

maybe this divide will play into the hands of the CRT

Could you explain what you mean by this? CRT may be failing to manage the infrastructure but I don't think it is an evil organisation per se.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

It might be what a few of you want on here, but in my experience, it is only a few out on the cut who seem to have 'an attitude'. Most boaters believe in 'live and let live'.

 

I have never denied that p takers spoil it for the majority. Sadly that's part of life.

 

spot on,

 

 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Could you explain what you mean by this? CRT may be failing to manage the infrastructure but I don't think it is an evil organisation per se.

Lots of people on here would undoubtedly disagree... 😉

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

7 minutes ago, JemShaun said:

ITS NOT A VOTE

 

you’ll not get him to change his mind or admit to any error of judgment, or meet half way

 

and if you carry in like this you’ll be in his ignore list 😳

 

the world out in the cut is lovely, enjoy your return 👍

[JemShaun]

11 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

you’ll not get him to change his mind or admit to any error of judgment, or meet half way

 

and if you carry in like this you’ll be in his ignore list 😳

 

the world out in the cut is lovely, enjoy your return 👍

Thank you Goliath, if our Bows cross in the future then alcohol will be in order 🍺

[Arthur Marshall]

26 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 Out in the real world away from here (the forum) there’s a much more mellow experience. I think anyone spending most of their time boating would agree?

I’ve not had a face to face experience of any resentment from other ‘types’ of boaters.

The odd issues at locks but that’s a different story.

Generally we swop experiences and lots wish they were out all year too.

Undoubtably there are some who perceive, relish and try to create a divide but I personally don’t feel it’s like that out there on the cut. 

 

Very true. I've never met anyone, leisure or CCer, who spoke in derogatory terms of other boater's choices.

I think the crunch will come hardest for the non-liveaboard CCers as they've got houses to run as well as boats to pretend to cruise on. Those are the ones who will either get moorings or sell up.

 

[IanD]

19 minutes ago, JemShaun said:

Thank you Goliath, if our Bows cross in the future then alcohol will be in order 🍺

I could have posted exactly the same comments about Goliath that I did about M_JG, for exactly the same reasons... 😉

 

If they don't like being ignored, maybe they shouldn't be so free to throw insults around, and behave like "sh*t-stirrers" -- not my label, that came from another forum member with the same view of the same posters, who ignores tham for the same reasons.

 

I'm perfectly willing to change my mind when presented with facts that show I'm wrong, and have done so on multiple occasions -- and am happy to admit I'm wrong if I am. What I won't do is give in to loud-mouthed bullies who say I should shut up because they either disagree with me (which is fine) or don't like being confronted with facts which disagree with their opinions (tough) -- which are indeed like a*seholes, everybody's got one...

 

No doubt they'll post the usual insulting follow-ons (hey, guess who started that?) casting aspersions about my character and motivation, which I also won't read -- they've both been doing this for ages, you'd have thought they'd have learned by now... 😉

Edited February 25, 2023 by IanD

[JemShaun]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

I could have posted exactly the same comments about Goliath that I did about M_JG, for exactly the same reasons... 😉

 

If they don't like being ignored, maybe they shouldn't be so free to throw insults around, and behave like "sh*t-stirrers" -- not my label, that came from another forum member with the same view of the same posters.

 

I'm perfectly willing to change my mind when presented with facts that show I'm wrong, and have done so on several occasions. What I won't do is give in to loud-mouthed bullies who say I should shut up because they either disagree with me (which is fine) or don't like being confronted with facts which disagree with their opinions (tough) -- which are indeed like a*seholes, everybody's got one...

 

No doubt they'll post the usual insulting follow-ons casting doubt on my character, which I also won't read -- they've both been doing this for ages, you'd have thought they'd have learned by now... 😉

Mr D I am 53 years old I can make my own judgements on people, I will not be influenced by others, I am a very firm believer that some or even many people not just in forums but in real life have an agenda. I am not saying you or anyone else has said agenda, and I would gladly sit and enjoy a beer or 2 with yourself.  You or anyone on this site has not upset any of my family, so until that time arrives, I am friends with everyone 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

I could have posted exactly the same comments about Goliath that I did about M_JG, for exactly the same reasons... 😉

 

If they don't like being ignored, maybe they shouldn't be so free to throw insults around, and behave like "sh*t-stirrers" -- not my label, that came from another forum member with the same view of the same posters.

 

I'm perfectly willing to change my mind when presented with facts that show I'm wrong, and have done so on several occasions. What I won't do is give in to loud-mouthed bullies who say I should shut up because they either disagree with me (which is fine) or don't like being confronted with facts which disagree with their opinions (tough) -- which are indeed like a*seholes, everybody's got one...

 

No doubt they'll post the usual insulting follow-ons casting doubt on my character, which I also won't read -- they've both been doing this for ages, you'd have thought they'd have learned by now... 😉

 

You just keep asking for it don't don't you Ian? - you keep doing it and I will respond each and every time.

 

I'll say again what I said in the post in the other thread - it's not about 'not liking' being on your ignore list it's the fact I find it funny, very funny particularly when you obviously actually read the posts regardless of whether they are quoted or not.

 

I'd have thought you would have learned by now.

[JemShaun]

Ian I was suggesting a beer as Goliath mentioned my return to the water