Questions for widebeam owners

[Willonaboat]

Hello

 

I wonder if widebeam owners specifically would mind answering a few questions?

 

A) How much interior headroom do you have in the centre (across the width) of your boat?

 

B)) How much interior headroom do you have at the cabin sides?

 

C) What is your air draught?

 

D) What is the width of your boat?

 

E) If you are prepared to say, what canal or river do you typically cruise? (if not prepared to say perhaps just indicate north, south, east or west)

 

I will explain why I ask later (just to keep you all in suspense) but it would be good to gather some hard data first before the discussion diverges.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Willonaboat

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Willonaboat said:

Hello

 

I wonder if widebeam owners specifically would mind answering a few questions?

 

A) How much interior headroom do you have in the centre (across the width) of your boat?

 

B)) How much interior headroom do you have at the cabin sides?

 

C) What is your air draught?

 

D) What is the width of your boat?

 

E) If you are prepared to say, what canal or river do you typically cruise? (if not prepared to say perhaps just indicate north, south, east or west)

 

I will explain why I ask later (just to keep you all in suspense) but it would be good to gather some hard data first before the discussion diverges.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

A = about 8 feet in the saloon but about 6 feet in the bedroom cabins

B = same as A

C = about 10-12 feet (depends on how full the tanks are)

D = 14 feet

E = Northern Rivers and the Sea.

 

Whilst not asked, but relevant for both canal and river use is the draft (depth in the water) as canals and rivers are getting shallower and shallower as dredging work is not undertaken.

 

F = Draft = '4 feet' to '5 feet 6' depending on the amount of fuel and water carried.

[pearley]

A= 6 ft 9ins

B= 6ft 3 ins

C= 2 m

D= 10 ft

E= River Great Ouse and tributaries

F= 2 ft 6 ins with full tanks

 

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A = about 8 feet in the saloon but about 6 feet in the bedroom cabins

B = same as A

C = about 10-12 feet (depends on how full the tanks are)

D = 14 feet

E = Northern Rivers and the Sea.

 

Whilst not asked, but relevant for both canal and river use is the draft (depth in the water) as canals and rivers are getting shallower and shallower as dredging work is not undertaken.

 

F = Draft = '4 feet' to '5 feet 6' depending on the amount of fuel and water carried.

I am sure you are aware that you do not own a widebeam, it's a yacht.

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am sure you are aware that you do not own a widebeam, it's a yacht.

 

Stop jumping in with things you know nothing about - my yacht is a 23 foot beam with a 70+ foot mast.

My 14 foot beam is a widebeam cruiser.

 

Dictionary :

 

 

yacht

[jɒt]

 

NOUN

1. a medium-sized sailing boat equipped for cruising or racing.

[matty40s]

46 minutes ago, pearley said:

 

C= 2 m

D= 10 ft

 

 

Nowt like being as wide as an English boat and as high as a European one...

[blackrose]

A = 6ft 8in

B = 5ft 11in

C = about 6ft

D = 12ft

E = Typically, hard to say... I've been on the boat nearly 18 years... I used to moor on the southern GU and went up as far as the tring summit, had many trips up and down the tidal Thames between Limehouse & Teddington as well as non-tidal Thames; the complete length of the K&A; lower reaches of the Severn, complete length of the Warks Avon, now on the R. Nene.

F: 2ft 2in at the skeg

Edited February 2, 2023 by blackrose

[blackrose]

40 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am sure you are aware that you do not own a widebeam, it's a yacht.

 

The OP didn't actually specify narrowboat-style widebeam owners, so I guess anything goes including Dutch barges and Dutch barge style widebeams, widebeam cruisers, etc.

Edited February 2, 2023 by blackrose

[Willonaboat]

Thanks for the replies. Very interesting and useful. Apologies for not specifying narrowboat-style widebeam (but thanks for that info anyway Alan).

 

So here's why I asked. I am currently having a 10' 6" wide narroboat-style-widebeam shell built. My intention is to make it super-insulated (I know this is going to cost ££££ in sprayfoam). I am also 6' 3" tall. Allowing for the floor bearers, insulation, ply, etc, with the specified 90" between the baseplate and roof there will be ample headroom in the centre of the boat but the curve of the roof means that headroom at the cabin sides will be insufficient (my fault).

 

So I'm left with two options:

 

1) reduce the curve on the roof. This might look weird(?) and/or the builder might not be prepared to do it.

 

2) increase the internal height between baseplate and roof in the centre to 92" which will give 86" at the cabin side.

 

I was concerned about air draught when solar panels, etc are added to the roof but option 2 should still give an air draught of less than 6 feet so it looks like this will be OK. I have already checked stated air draughts on the southern Grand Union, which is where the boat will initially be based before venturing further afield.

 

Although I now think all will be OK, please speak up if there's a flaw in my plan before I contact the boat builder (the baseplate has only just been laid).

 

[blackrose]

Another option may be to specify a 25mm baseplate which will then mean you don't need ballast giving you some extra height inside the boat. But if the baseplate has already been laid it sounds like you may be too late to do that.

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, Willonaboat said:

Allowing for the floor bearers, insulation, ply, etc,

What's the makeup of these? Can any of them be reduced a bit to eke out a little more headroom?

Will you have any ballast under the floor? If you are going to increase the overall height of the shell you might be able to ballast the boat down more at the front end, so it will sit more level than most, without increasing the maximum draft (at the stern) or air draught (at the bows). But to do so might need more ballast than there is room for under the floor, meaning some of your extra headroom would be lost to a raised floor to accommodate the extra ballast. If this is an issue consider using steel ballast which is much denser than the usual engineering bricks or concrete paving slabs.

Edited February 2, 2023 by David Mack

[blackrose]

Boats are best for the vertically challenged. I'm only 5'6" so my widebeam is like a cathedral!

[Peanut]

I think that mostly you walk about and stand up in the middle two thirds of the boat anyway.  Seats and cupboards at the sides, maybe a passage way on one side, past the head or a bedroom.

[Willonaboat]

20 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Another option may be to specify a 25mm baseplate which will then mean you don't need ballast giving you some extra height inside the boat. But if the baseplate has already been laid it sounds like you may be too late to do that.

10mm base plate is already being welded and from what I understand the cost of that 25mm baseplate would be scary!

 

19 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What's the makeup of these? Can any of them be reduced a bit to eke out a little more headroom?

Will you have any ballast under the floor? If you are going to increase the overall height of the shell you might be able to ballast the boat down more at the front end, so it will sit more level than most, without increasing the maximum draft (at the stern) or air draught (at the bows). But to do so might need more ballast than there is room for under the floor, meaning some of your extra headroom would be lost to a raised floor to accommodate the extra ballast. If this is an issue consider using steel ballast which is much denser than the usual engineering bricks or concrete paving slabs.

No room to jiggle anything due to floor bearers and the amount of insulation I want. Yes, of course, there will be ballast under the floor...

 

18 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Boats are best for the vertically challenged. I'm only 5'6" so my widebeam is like a cathedral!

Great pic. Lots of headroom there! Sometimes it's a curse being 6' 3".

 

7 minutes ago, Peanut said:

I think that mostly you walk about and stand up in the middle two thirds of the boat anyway.  Seats and cupboards at the sides, maybe a passage way on one side, past the head or a bedroom.

The floorplan dictates full headroom at the cabin sides.

[Alan de Enfield]

It's difficult - but the more height you add to the boat the more 'top heavy' it is so to meet the RCD requirements you will need it to have more ballast (which equals deeper in the water) 

 

Add to one (height) and the 'other (draft) alters you cannot change one without the other

 

You (or your builder) will need to consider the stability requirements of :

 

 

EN ISO 12217-1:2017

Small craft - Stability and buoyancy assessment and categorization - Part 1: Non-sailing boats of hull length greater than or equal to 6 m (ISO 12217-1:2015)

 

 

 

 

And the effect on the down flooding heights

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your builder (as a commercial operator) cannot sell it to you unless it complies with the RCR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Willonaboat said:

10mm base plate is already being welded and from what I understand the cost of that 25mm baseplate would be scary!

 

 

A 10mm base plate is very thin for a widebeam boat - who is building this ?

(My 1998 narrowboat had a 13mm base plate)

Edited February 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Willonaboat]

The boat will be built to RCD (or more accurately, RCR requirements).

 

When initially gathering quotes, every builder quoted for a 10mm baseplate, so I don't know where you get the idea than it is "very thin" for a widebeam.

 

The builder chosen is a quality boatbuilder and this is reflected in the price being charged. Having visited four boatbuilders (from the six quotes) I am happy that the right decision was made.

 

Am I right in thinking that's a Lagoon 380 in your profile picture? My last boat was a cat. Quite a bit bigger though. Back to a monohull (widebeam) now.

[sunny]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Stop jumping in with things you know nothing about - my yacht is a 23 foot beam with a 70+ foot mast.

My 14 foot beam is a widebeam cruiser.

 

Dictionary :

 

 

yacht

[jɒt]

 

NOUN

1. a medium-sized sailing boat equipped for cruising or racing.

what canal are you on with your yatch how do you get the mast under the ridges

 

[bizzard]

9 minutes ago, sunny said:

what canal are you on with your yatch how do you get the mast under the ridges

 

Tabernacle ?

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, sunny said:

what canal are you on with your yatch how do you get the mast under the ridges

 

 

I'm not on the canals or rivers with my yacht (LadyG is having a brainfart)

I have a Cruiser which I used on the rivers and canals for many years, but I have now taken it out to the coast.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

Usually one goes over ridges rather than under them. 

 

[pearley]

17 hours ago, matty40s said:

Nowt like being as wide as an English boat and as high as a European one...

That's cos Aintree measured width and I measured air draught.