Starter battery question

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Richard T said:

Agree with BEngo - Johnno is the man for all things Sabb. It would be worth getting the engine serviced by him. You would have to pay travelling time for him to come to the boat but it could save you a lot of money and angst!!

The OP is going from Sutton Stop down Atherstone, its their first day boating  unless I have people confused

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I read it as he is buying a replacement, asking about which to buy?

 

Yes, but he has already bought one replacement which went flat in 24hrs. 

 

 The bigger replacement he is considering will take 48hrs to die a death so yes, one step forward! 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I read it as he is buying a replacement, asking about which to buy?

 

That means that he has self diagnosed the battery as faulty and a rested voltage of 12.2V after a few attempts to start does not accord with a faulty battery, the likely fault is something else, but no one ha said that he shoudl not buy another battery. however, if he does and the fault is elsewhere he is no further forward. If he has the facilities I would suggest that he tries to charge the start battery but that takes time so he may view fitting a new one worth it to save time.

[lxs602]

41 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yes, but he has already bought one replacement which went flat in 24hrs. 

 

 The bigger replacement he is considering will take 48hrs to die a death so yes, one step forward! 

 

No I haven't replaced any batteries yet.

 

 

41 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

The OP is going from Sutton Stop down Atherstone, its their first day boating  unless I have people confused

 

 

That is also me. I was going to put a link in that thread to this one.

 

40 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That means that he has self diagnosed the battery as faulty and a rested voltage of 12.2V after a few attempts to start does not accord with a faulty battery, the likely fault is something else, but no one ha said that he shoudl not buy another battery. however, if he does and the fault is elsewhere he is no further forward. If he has the facilities I would suggest that he tries to charge the start battery but that takes time so he may view fitting a new one worth it to save time.

The fact that there was an unconnected unused leisure battery that was flat has probably made me think it was the same with the starter battery. I suppose it is more difficult to work out what to do when you have to travel to get to the boat. I am tempted to get a £50-60 starter battery tomorrow, just to try and get going, but even if it does work, I will be monitoring the voltage and check if it is charging as it is supposed to. I suppose the alternative would be to ask for a jump start. I worry though I might end up stranded somewhere on the next day somewhere if it is the battery.

  

 

49 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

No reason that you should not OCCASIONALLY jump start from the domestic bank as long as they are well enough charged, but be aware most retail jump leads do not have a thick enough conductor unless they are for diesel trucks. I make my own for welding cable.

 

I bought 350A 15mm2 booster cables today (listed as being for up to 3Ltr engines). Is this thick enough, or should I get the 30mm2 ones (for < 6Ltr engines)?

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by lxs602

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, lxs602 said:

I bought 350A 15mm2 booster cables today (listed as being for up to 3Ltr engines). Is this thick enough, or should I get the 30mm2 ones (for < 6Ltr engines)?

 

 

Normally with jump leads you connect and allow the "donor" vehicle to run at around 1500 rpm for a few minutes to put some charge into the flat battery and to raise the voltage available to start the engine. You will have neither possibility so your leads may or may not work.

 

Now some  IFs. If you have a dual bank setup then the start and engine battery negative should be linked with starter sized cable so you can use both jump leads between both bank's positives. That is if the domestic bank is well charged - say 12.5V or more when you get to the boat.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, lxs602 said:

. I am tempted to get a £50-60 starter battery tomorrow, just to try and get going, but even if it does work, I will be monitoring the voltage and check if it is charging as it is supposed to. I suppose the alternative would be to ask for a jump start. I worry though I might end up stranded somewhere on the next day somewhere if it is the battery.

  

 

 

 

You could get the new battery and jump start from that and don't connect it, that way you wont discharge it if the starter is connected to somewhere it shouldnt be. Once running you can chech charging voltage etc and then decide what to do and even then disconnect it as soon as you stop for the night

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, lxs602 said:

I suppose the alternative would be to ask for a jump start.

Actually seeing if you can get the hand start working would be a useful option at this stage. Then you won't be dependent on electrics at all.

[MtB]

18 hours ago, lxs602 said:

The engine is a Sabb 10hp diesel single cylinder. I didn't manage to start it with the hand crank.

 

Here is a video of how to hand-crank and start a 10hp single cylinder Saab in a narrowboat.

 

I'm wondering if you were not using the decompression lever.

 

 

 

[nicknorman]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Here is a video of how to hand-crank and start a 10hp single cylinder Saab in a narrowboat.

 

I'm wondering if you were not using the decompression lever.

 

 

 

Presumably one could use the decompressor in conjunction with the electric starter to give the starter and battery an easier time. If your arms are long enough to reach both.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Presumably one could use the decompressor in conjunction with the electric starter to give the starter and battery an easier time. If your arms are long enough to reach both.

 

That is the beauty of de-compressors, even if the engine no longer has a hand start. Definitely worth a try.

 

If you know what you are doing the starter motor terminals are probably close enough to the lever to make it easier than using the switch/key (if it is a motor and not a dynostart).

[nicknorman]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is the beauty of de-compressors, even if the engine no longer has a hand start. Definitely worth a try.

 

If you know what you are doing the starter motor terminals are probably close enough to the lever to make it easier than using the switch/key (if it is a motor and not a dynostart).

You could probably bodge something with a bit of string tied to the decompressor lever if both are not within reach at the same time.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is the beauty of de-compressors, even if the engine no longer has a hand start. Definitely worth a try.

 

If you know what you are doing the starter motor terminals are probably close enough to the lever to make it easier than using the switch/key (if it is a motor and not a dynostart).

String on the decompressor lever. Get the motor spinning and give it a tug.

[cheesegas]

Can you take some photos? Use the flash, a general overview of the engine bay and then of the batteries and any big switches in the engine bay, and wiring. 

[MtB]

20 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I wonder if there is a can of Easystart hide away somewhere from the last owner.

 

 

This stuff. One sprays a TINY quantity into the air intake to get a knackered diesel to start. 

 

Have you (the OP) seen a tin of this kicking about?

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Tracy D&#x27;arth said:

String on the decompressor lever. Get the motor spinning and give it a tug.

Sounds like Mike Askin starting his Lister, Couldn't find the original but here is a copy 

 

[Rob-M]

49 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Sounds like Mike Askin starting his Lister, Couldn't find the original but here is a copy 

 

This one 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

This one 

 

 

I hate this Bing search engine

[MtB]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I hate this Bing search engine

 

Others are available! 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

57 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Others are available! 

 

 

I know but I am having trouble replacing it running edge 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I know but I am having trouble replacing it running edge 

 

No great surprise. Get an Apple!

 

 

[Rob-M]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I know but I am having trouble replacing it running edge 

Instructions here, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/change-your-default-search-engine-in-microsoft-edge-cccaf51c-a4df-a43e-8036-d4d2c527a791#:~:text=Select Settings and more > Settings,in the address bar menu.

[john.k]

Single cylinder with a big flywheel .......easy to start without any decompression......ease over compression with the lifter (or not) ,then you get a full swing of the handle .......if thats no good, bounce the engine back and forth ,until the kick from the backward plus a gut bust swing will get any single started on the excess fuel thats gone into the cylinder.

[MtB]

6 hours ago, john.k said:

Single cylinder with a big flywheel .......easy to start without any decompression......ease over compression with the lifter (or not) ,then you get a full swing of the handle .......if thats no good, bounce the engine back and forth ,until the kick from the backward plus a gut bust swing will get any single started on the excess fuel thats gone into the cylinder.

 

Except we think the OP's engine also has a fault preventing it from starting, or the OP is doing something fundamentally wrong hence the videos for him to watch.

 

It doesn't start when the OP wangs over with the starter motor, he's flattened the battery doing that. Nor can he start it by hand so first thing is for him to watch the videos then confirm he is actually using the decompression lever correctly. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by MtB

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Except we think the OP's engine also has a fault preventing it from starting, or the OP is doing something fundamentally wrong hence the videos for him to watch.

 

It doesn't start when the OP wangs over with the starter motor, he's flattened the battery doing that. Nor can he start it by hand so first thing is for him to watch the videos then confirm he is actually using the decompression lever correctly.

 

I suppose it is even possible that he is trying to start it with the decompressor set to decompress.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I suppose it is even possible that he is trying to start it with the decompressor set to decompress.

 

That is exactly my suspicion!

 

As he is new to the boat and doesn't seem to have a background in diesels, he may not realise its importance and it may just be in the wrong position. 

 

So many unanswered questions.