lxs602

Hi, My boat is being welded at the moment, bow and then stern. The welder is working on it on occasional evenings and weekends, so I estimate it may be done by the end of September. The paint on the sides and roof is mostly weatherproof (except around the windows), but is not in the best condition. While I have the time on hardstanding, I have thought about taking off the paint and doing a layer of weatherproof primer at least, if not the topcoat. If I pick days when it is not being welded, is this OK? Assuming the paint is given time to dry, before grinding or weldeding? Does this sound like a good idea (or a bad one)? I have heard about metal dust from boats being ground or welded landing on nice new (dry) painted boats and causing rust flecks. If metal dust lands on the prepared metal (or on the new (dry) primer after painting) would it cause a problem? Also, should you remove windows when painting the sides? Thanks for any replies.

Boatbuilder advised against vapour membrane suggesting it would trap water, which seems to be happening, and that the stove and sunshine on the metal roof would dry out the rockwool if not used. I don't know if others who have used vapour membrane may have just spent a lot of time to get a seal as required, as otherwise it seems to be counterproductive. Interestingly, a government paper from Sept 2021 titled Retrofit internal wall insulation: best practice says (emphasis added):

It has been difficult getting a perfect continuous barrier with the vapour membrane on the warm surface of the rockwool. Water has condensed on the metal roof despite the membrane, and seem to be trapped in by it, and then also not be dried out by the fire.

It was a serious comment... and I am inclined so. It is easy to waste time and resources this way, as well as irritate others.

I was surprised to have found a government guide called "Retrofit Internal Wall insulation: A guide to best practice" (Dpt of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy) https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019707/iwi-guidance.pdf On page 30, paragraph 45, "The addition of a vapour barrier inside Internal insulation (IWI) on solid walls used to be regarded as essential, partly due to inappropriate moisture risk assessment methods. However it is now agreed that in many cases, this may do more harm than good." It then mentions closed and open closed ventilation systems. I don't understand how this might apply to a canal boat. I have also seen new "intelligent" permeability vapour membrane advertised. Would this be a good idea? What with possibility of vapour being trapped between a vapour barrier and insulation?

That's worth knowing. Agreed. Perfectionism or fussiness should be avoided though.

It's been 10 years. How did it go?

Indeed so. I have just spent several days ripping out aged unhoused wiring running next to 1980s polystyrene sheets, so fire risk has been on my mind. Probably too late now. I'll have to go with a second coat of Hammerite direct-to-rust paint. Thanks again for the suggestions.

The vapour membranes available at stores nearby are polythene, flame resistance category E. Isn't that a fire risk? I was told by someone that you shouldn't put waxoyl over a layer of paint? I would have to use a second layer of Hammerite.

I will put rockwool on the ceiling, with a vapour membrane between the warm surface and wood ceiling panels.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will put a coat of waxoyl over the Hammerite. I'm sure it's not ideal, but this has all been very fast.

What should I use between the rockwool and the steel then? I am also using PIR enertherm boards (similar to celotex) on the walls. Wouldn't there be a galvanic reaction between the foil covering on the boards and the steel? As long as the steel is protected

I got it as dry as I could manage. Hope the stove being lit helped.

I'd thought that filling in the dots of rust still showing through the paint would reduce condensation on these spots and then rusting underneath and then flaking off the surrounding paint. I don't know if it would ioccur like this in practice. It is just my theory of course. Hence whether a second coat would give more comprehensive coverage. I thought tin foil as a moisture membrane between steel and rockwool was standard?

I removed the loose rust. It is designed for rusty surfaces but it's unfortunate if it's been reformulated. The VOCs are still rated high though.

Sanding down would be ideal, but I think I 'm now too far along with the Hammerite... If Rustoleum is better perhaps I could use that for a second coat. I'm worried that just one coat will flake off quickly, more so than one coat. I will definitely take off panels in two or three areas in 12 months time to see how it is doing.

I have been changing the insulation and trying to sort out the wiring on my boat and I was disappointed to find that the steel shell had been painted only up to the gunwhales, above which it was quite rusty, especially under the windows, with even a couple of perforations in the bathroom. After scraping off the loose rust with a wire brush, I have painted over almost all of it with Hammerite direct-to-rust hammered finish paint. On shining a light at an angle, I can still see lots of dots of rust despite a thick coat, and I was thinking to do a second coat as what says on the tin. It has been a rush job, which I have been trying to sort out within 1 1/2 weeks of annual leave, without any budget available, before moving in. The mechanic/fitter I have been working with suggested that with sticking tin foil over the top before installing rock wool, it would be fine. What do you think?

Cheers, I was admitted. I was told by someone that as there are apparently a lot of spam accounts, if you have no picture/friends/posts/etc. it can look suspicious. I only really joined for the Sabb group, not for anything else.

Could someone please add me to the group? I applied last week but no response...

Well, after the second-to-last journey on the way from Coventry, I ignorantly didn't tighten up the stern gland at the end of the day, and after the heavy rain, when I returned a few days later to carry on, the bilges were flooded with about a bathtub and a half of water, about a quarter of the way up the engine. After spending an hour or more tipping out the water by hand, I managed to start it manually and make it to Birmingham. The starter motor had been having problems before then, but after this it was totally silent. I thought if I could locate the problem myself I could change the part, but by this point, and with the observations about the wiring, whatever might have been the problem before, it was well past what I could sort out, so I called a mechanic someone recommended. Thanks to Darren, if he should read this. He wasn't impressed either. So, the alternator and starter motor have been taken out and serviced. Apparently rewiring the boat is apparently a 20-30h job? I wish I had known, as I would have bargained a lot more from the asking price. Oh well. Thanks for the help, as I don't think I would otherwise have made it back to Birmingham.

Yes, it is not connected to anything though. There is also a 240V inverter, but it is also disconnected.

Do you mean the throttle (circled below)? I have been lifting it to minimum revolutions from when the engine stops.

I managed to hand start it and get it back to Birmingham, which was a relief, and it is now moored near Cambrian wharf. I put a few squirts of oil in through the cigarette-starter plug at the rear, as recommended here and in the manual, which I suppose might have helped. I did try some hot water over the cylinder, but probably not enough to have made a difference, as I had little available water. Thanks for the suggestion. It was adequately tight. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll need to try and get the leisure batteries charging as well though. I didn't find any Easy Start or any starter cigarettes. I need to find what diameter I need, and somewhere to order them from. Thank you for the invitation. I signed up and tried to join the group yesterday, but I got an email from Facebook this morning saying my account had been suspended for breaching community standards. I have no idea why, as there was not much on there other than my name and date of birth. I took readings again, with the engine on maximum revolutions. The voltage on the batteries didn't move at all, still at 12.2V for the leisure batteries, and I can't remember what value for the starter, but no increase. I tried working through the checks. It says to "operate the stop control", but I'm not sure which control this would be. I also seem not to have a few controls in the diagram in the Instruction Booklet. If anyone here who knows Sabb engines could tell me what would correspond to the stop control? Do you mean this (circled)? It is not movable on my engine. Is the hex nut below it unscrewed to check it? This was a question I was going to ask on the Facebook Sabb user's group. I bought the boat two weeks ago, so I can't really say from before then. I have run it for about 30 hours so far getting from Coventry to Birmingham. I have attached a lot more photos. I will take more tomorrow if I have missed anything.

Correct, the engine was stationary, and leisure batteries were still connected. The negative cable from the starter was connected, and the positive cable was dropped. The label over the red key read Engine battery key or similar, from memory. I will find out. If anyone knows an electrician in or around Birmingham familiar with boats, or who would like a day's pay themselves, I would be glad to hear.

I will look at starters. I am out of funds until late January, hopefully no additional purchase might not be necessary, or else, it has been suggested an actual cigarette butt... https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/zundfix-starting-cigarettes.157164/ It is a David Piper, so not a Barney boat. I don't believe there is a day tank.